Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is this early onset cocklodging or am I overthinking?

479 replies

dizzyupthegirl86 · 02/09/2021 10:58

I need to get my thoughts together and I know exactly what my best mate would say but a) he is male and b) doesn’t have the best relationship history.

So I’ve been single for about two years after a horrific break up that took me a while to get over. I’ve accomplished loads in that period and am happy with myself at the moment. I don’t need a relationship but I do miss having someone.
I started seeing someone a couple of months ago, initially I didn’t think there was much of a spark when we were texting but he was nice enough - but then after a few weeks something definitely turned a corner.
We’ve not spoken in great detail about finances but he works full time for his local council, I think from piecing bits together he earns maybe 20-23k? I earn 10k more. He was renting a room but his landlord sold the house so is now staying with his mom whilst saving up for a deposit. He’s 30, I’m 34, he lives around an hour away but typically comes to me as I live on my own.

The first time we went out, he suggested we split the bill. I didn’t have an issue with that. Second, third and fourth times, he came to mine, we ordered dinner and I paid. The second and third were cheap (maybe a tenner between us both times) but the third was about 40 quid and at that point I was a bit Hmm

After that, he suggested we go to a restaurant for dinner and the day before, he said he’d pay - which I thought was nice and a way of acknowledging he was aware I’d paid the last three times.
Next time, he came round, I paid - it was my ‘turn’, I thought. The time after that, we were ordering in and I told him it was his turn. He looked a bit surprised but said ok, though commented that at 45 quid, he hoped it was good. It was 45 coz he’d added a tenners worth of sides that HE wanted!

I then paid the last time. He knows I’ve got this week off work coz it’s my birthday and he suggested we go out for drinks and dinner yesterday which sounded lovely. He said he’d pick the restaurant, sent me a link and when I said how nice it looked, he said something like ‘yes but I’ve not looked at the prices yet’. He also said he’d come to mine beforehand (where we were going is roughly in the middle of where we both live). I told him that I usually get a taxi to the train station and then a train into town, but if there were two of us, a taxi straight into town would work out the same price - he said ‘that’s fine if we’re splitting it’…..

I thought it might be his way of saying he was on a budget (not something he’s ever bought up before) so I suggested we could do something cheaper if he wanted. He came over yesterday and I didn’t feel great so we decided to stay in. I suggested we could cook dinner with what I already had in, or go to the supermarket to get something - but he said he’d rather get a takeaway. He ordered it on the phone and asked if they took cards so I assumed he was paying - at this point, my (unspoken) logic was that it was his ‘turn’ and it was my birthday.

Food gets delivered and suddenly he can’t find his card. I give him mine to pay and he does so. If I’d been in that position, I’d have been mortified but would have offered to transfer it to the other person. No such offer.

So I’m at a bit of a loss really. I’m not typically that obsessed with money or who pays for what - I don’t mind at all taking it in turns and feel that it generally evens itself out. But I’m starting to get resentful about it now, and I’m noticing it more and more.

These comments about money really take the shine off things a bit! If I was in that position, I wouldn’t expect to be paid for but I’d definitely suggest cheaper things or offer to cook for someone.

A few weeks ago, he was over and he suggested staying the night - I was a bit thrown and said no. The next time he came over, he fell asleep but then basically wouldn’t get up, made out he was falling back to sleep. It was like he was expecting me to just cave? I told him three times he needed to get up and ended up turning the light on and leaving the room before he actually did it.
In a lot of ways, he’s great - he’s really nice, he’s engaging, he pays attention to what i say and is very generous with his attention. He’s close to his brother and the only day they both have off is Saturdays so he spends all day on Saturday with his brother, which does mean the things we can do are limited.

Sometimes I feel a bit Pearl-clutchy about things, so I don’t know whether I’m just overthinking these things. I would never dream of inviting myself to stay over, I’d wait to be invited.
I suppose what I’m asking is…. Is there another viewpoint I’m not seeing on the money side of things? It only became noticeable after the third time I ended up paying but it feels like he’s happy to let me pay. If he’d genuinely lost his card (and it did turn up once at my house after falling out of his pocket so it’s not outside the realms of possibility) and offered to transfer the cost of dinner, or even half, I wouldn’t feel quite so…. Used.

OP posts:
billy1966 · 03/09/2021 13:07

@Sssloou

The flip side of that is, by giving him the reasons why, it gives him the chance to justify them, and particularly today, i’d struggle with that. So maybe by not telling him, there’s an element of self preservation.

Yes - self preservation should be your goal right now. This is an emotionally intelligent approach.

You are the one who has been exploited, disappointed and let down.

Don’t expose yourself to any further shenanigans. He doesn’t deserve a dialogue.

I agree with this.

You owe him nothing.

Your loyalty and priority is to yourself.

You certainly don't need to be trying to fix him.

He is sly, duplicitous, and mean.

You deserve better and you will find it.

altmember · 03/09/2021 13:08

[quote dizzyupthegirl86]@altmember yes, it’s not sitting 100% right with me if I’m honest. Part of me feels like the right thing to do is to be honest about it, but that’s the part of me that doesn’t believe he’s a truly horrible person. It might be that he’s got some mad double life and I’m wrong about that. But for ME, my inclination is to tell him the truth because that’s the kind of person I am. If someone thought that about me, I’d want to know.

The flip side of that is, by giving him the reasons why, it gives him the chance to justify them, and particularly today, i’d struggle with that. So maybe by not telling him, there’s an element of self preservation.

In any case, he hasn’t replied so it may well be redundant.[/quote]
As horrible as it sounds, it's possible that he wasn't all that emotionally invested in the relationship and it was just a convenient way to get a bit of sex. That he wasn't really bothered about it ending and he thought he'd se how far he could push things before you did?

Bit different, but I had an ex like that - she'd never end a relationship even after she didn't want to be in it anymore (several times after she'd met someone else), so she'd make it untenable for her boyfriends until they called it off - making it easy for her to move on quickly without feeling guilty.

dizzyupthegirl86 · 03/09/2021 13:22

I’m not going to use his card. Not going to tell him that I found it. If he left it intentionally, then he won’t be able to let on… if he genuinely thinks it fell out of his pocket on our walk, then he’ll have cancelled it by now.

He’s replied to say that he’s gutted but thanked me for being honest. He also said ‘can I ask why you feel that way?’ I’ve not replied. I might do, I might not. But either way, rushing into a reply won’t help me.

He seemed emotionally invested. To a normal level. After he pushed a bit for sex one time and I told him how uncomfortable he made me feel, he apologised - a lot- and said it wouldn’t happen again. Then he said that the next time he came over, nothing would happen. And it didn’t. We kissed a little but that was it, and he asked me afterwards if he’d done anything to make me uncomfortable.

He could have reacted badly then, but he didn’t. He took it really well and reacted in just the way that I’d have wanted. He reacts to honesty in the same way that I would, which is really attractive to me.

Thank god I’ve already sent that message!

OP posts:
Sssloou · 03/09/2021 13:57

Seems that you are now minimising your own gut feelings.

No decent man would push in the first place.

Just because he is contrite doesn’t mean anything - he chose to push that boundary as a grown man of 30. Remember that.

dizzyupthegirl86 · 03/09/2021 14:05

Yes, you’re right.
The sleeping thing and the boundaries thing, were mild annoyances but not earth shattering for me. I get that a lot of people think the sex thing was a dealbreaker but for me, it wasn’t, because I have context and knowledge of the situation that’s hard to describe on here. I’ll stress again, I never felt unsafe and he certainly didn’t do anything I felt I couldn’t say no to - I’m not minimising it, but for me it was an annoyance and once we’d talked it out, it was no longer an issue for me.
The money thing was the bigger frustration for me, definitely. My gut instinct hasn’t changed on that one. The clarity I’ve had from everyone who’s commented has helped massively.
I am however dwelling on the nice bits a bit now. But that was always going to happen, and it’s better that it’s happening after I’ve sent him that message than before.

OP posts:
SyIviescup · 03/09/2021 14:14

The most important thing for me is the pretending to be a sleep when you wanted him to leave.

I would have felt felt really uncomfortable then.

And yes he sounds like a cocklodger ...

heyyellowyellow · 03/09/2021 14:27

OP, just read your last message re his reply. I think the thing to remember is that people who aren’t so good for us don’t spend 100% of their time being monstrous/abusive/mean/nasty/unreasonable/difficult etc. Often they have other qualities that we really like and that’s what makes untangling ourselves from them very difficult. You trusted your gut enough to post on here and I think that’s an excellent indicator of this relationship not being the right one for you. So yep, he sent a “decent” reply and you’re naturally now thinking of the all the good times… don’t lose sight of why you were questioning your feelings in the first place.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 03/09/2021 14:37

@dizzyupthegirl86 - if you feel the need to respond, something along the lines of "I don't believe we share the same values and therefore can''t see a future for us as a couple" would do to get around the specifics.

And look on the bright side - you've freed yourself up before your birthday night out - you might even meet someone much better tomorrow! But even if you don't, you have an evening of untrammelled enjoyment for your birthday out with your friends - hurrah! WineCake

Chillyjellytotty · 03/09/2021 14:42

There isn’t a huge difference in take home monthly pay between 23k (£1650) and 33k (£2100) especially if he isn’t running his own home. I think the fact you aren’t that into him is highlighting the money issues. If you were into him you would be to busy having a great time as opposed to considering who paid for what.

OhDearMuriel · 03/09/2021 14:52

@Chillyjellytotty
Yes, sure because he’s not a self-centred, tight and sly man, right?
If you think he’s a catch; more fool you.

dizzyupthegirl86 · 03/09/2021 14:56

To be honest, he could be earning buttons and it would still matter. I don’t mind treating someone or paying for more than half of whatever, but I do resent when it’s expected of me without even having a discussion about it.
We could have eaten what I had in, but he opted for a takeaway and then left me to pay it? Nah.

OP posts:
putthetubeinthebin · 03/09/2021 15:05

@dizzyupthegirl86

To be honest, he could be earning buttons and it would still matter. I don’t mind treating someone or paying for more than half of whatever, but I do resent when it’s expected of me without even having a discussion about it. We could have eaten what I had in, but he opted for a takeaway and then left me to pay it? Nah.
I agree. I'm skint and when dating always suggested cheap dates then if they suggested something more expensive I'd make it clear that I wasn't able to afford it, was happy to cook/get a picnic together, and it was on their head if they wanted to cover the cost of something more expensive.

You don't suggest something you can't afford. It's taking the piss.

putthetubeinthebin · 03/09/2021 15:06

So many threads at the moment about "men" dodging paying for stuff.

Sssloou · 03/09/2021 15:21

He’s replied to say that he’s gutted but thanked me for being honest. He also said ‘can I ask why you feel that way?’ I’ve not replied. I might do, I might not. But either way, rushing into a reply won’t help me.

Being done with it sooner rather than later might well help you by freeing up your headspace and evening - maybe get it finished by sending something vague and vanilla with no opportunity for comebacks - nothing he can get his teeth into for dialogue such as:

“The chemistry is just not there for me.”

jillandhersprite · 03/09/2021 15:47

I don't think you have to explain your feelings to him because let's face it - feelings aren't always explainable are they.
Depending on whether you do decide to respond I would urge you to stay bland and not get drawn in... He wants to know reasons either to make excuses and appeal to the part of you that still likes him and to draw you back in. Or to use it against you with some nasty final comment.
I would leave it for a while as right now you are vulnerable and emotional. Get together with your friends, have a good time with them, enjoy your birthday and make a promise to yourself not to engage with him till after your birthday weekend now...

HollowTalk · 03/09/2021 15:51

I think I'd say to him that you're uncomfortable that he's taking advantage of you financially. I'd give the other night as an example - "I had already bought food and was prepared to cook. You said no, you wanted a takeaway. You ordered it and I had to pay for it. I've paid for the last 7 takeaways (or whatever) and it always costs a lot more than I'd pay myself. I feel you're taking me for granted so it's better we call it a day."

dizzyupthegirl86 · 03/09/2021 15:52

Have read this whole thread again from the beginning. Should clarify the staying overnight thing as I can see now why it wasn’t clear initially. He hadnt stayed over before, the time he suggested he stay over while he was here was the first time it had been broached, and that’s why it took me by surprise. It was maybe 3-4 dates in, something like that - seemed a bit soon to me!

The ‘date’ after that was when he kept pretending to be asleep, but he’d mentioned it before he came over and I’d said no at the time.

I’m massively fighting the urge to tell him that I feel like he’s used me financially and I’m no longer willing to tolerate it, as well as the Saturday thing. There’s the ‘me’ bit that is dying to, and there’s the other bit of me that is saying ‘what would mumsnet say’

OP posts:
PieceOfString · 03/09/2021 15:56

Don't tell him, he'll get better at doing it more subtly so his next girlfriend will take longer to recognise what she's dealing with and therefore take longer to be in a position to stay in or opt out. I think telling someone is useful if it gives them peace to know it was just an incompatibility thing so they have closure, or they learn a valuable lesson which makes them a better person. If wrought think he's choosing to use someone and wouldn't be sorry then telling him only makes him better at it

Pinkbonbon · 03/09/2021 16:01

Ah yeah that makes it all the more creepy tbh.
People should respect peoples personal space and not just expect to be able to start staying over without permission (let alone when they've been told no) I'd also presume it was pushing for a situation where sex might be brought into the equation in this case.

Either way it wasn't on.

I would just message 'because if I kept dating you I'd be broke in a year'. Then block him.

HateJudgmentalPeople · 03/09/2021 16:04

@Pinkbonbon

Ah yeah that makes it all the more creepy tbh. People should respect peoples personal space and not just expect to be able to start staying over without permission (let alone when they've been told no) I'd also presume it was pushing for a situation where sex might be brought into the equation in this case.

Either way it wasn't on.

I would just message 'because if I kept dating you I'd be broke in a year'. Then block him.

Haha love the last comment about being broke in a year!
wincarwoo · 03/09/2021 16:04

I think it's fair enough to tell him. After all how will he learn for the next time?

Pinkbonbon · 03/09/2021 16:09

Tbf though pp, you maybe dont want him to learn from it. Because perhaps all he would learn is how to better disguise his shit personality for longer. Fair enough if he would actually become a better person from constructive criticism but the truth is, he sounds like a total vampire and these sorts dont ever really want to change, they just want to fool poor unsuspecting people long enough to suck them dry.

dizzyupthegirl86 · 03/09/2021 16:15

We were having sex at that point - so it wasn’t a case of him thinking that he’d get sex if he stayed over, because he was getting it anyway, you know?

If he’d bought it up before he came over then maybe I’d have said yes after being able to consider it, but it was literally just a shock when he said it, that my first reaction was no - I felt a bit put on the spot at the time. Not that it matters really but his sleep routine has him regularly still up past 2am, so I can’t honestly say I was concerned about him driving home at midnight. The fact is, that’s pushy in my eyes. In a committed relationship then it’s not a problem, but that’s not what we had, and it was still early days at the time.

I’d felt a bit off about the Saturday thing for the last week (since me mentioning it AGAIN and getting the same stock answer) so was coming round to the idea that I’d have to end things, but then on Wednesday, I actually had a lot of fun and was having a great time. It was like all the things that had bugged me before didn’t matter. We laughed and chatted and spent hours in bed and cuddled and it was great - and then when I had to pay for dinner, I felt so totally and utterly flat. He was asleep next to me and I was lying awake thinking how out of order it was. Then we woke up the next morning and cuddled and had sex again and it was great but there was this dark cloud over my head overshadowing the nice bits of the previous 24 hours.

OP posts:
Sssloou · 03/09/2021 16:35

All the nice bits are fake charismatic manipulations to reel you in so that he has confused you enough to exploit you.

Your head is mashed because it’s cognitive dissonance - it’s not adding up - his polar actions of charm and exploitation - your gut has seen, sensed and logged the dark shadow but then he does something to cover it up and your heart / head trusts it and is confused.

Sssloou · 03/09/2021 16:36

Any healthy relationship doesn’t have these confusing / unsettling feelings. Your emotional smoke alarm is switched on !

It’s just straightforward.

Swipe left for the next trending thread