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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is this early onset cocklodging or am I overthinking?

479 replies

dizzyupthegirl86 · 02/09/2021 10:58

I need to get my thoughts together and I know exactly what my best mate would say but a) he is male and b) doesn’t have the best relationship history.

So I’ve been single for about two years after a horrific break up that took me a while to get over. I’ve accomplished loads in that period and am happy with myself at the moment. I don’t need a relationship but I do miss having someone.
I started seeing someone a couple of months ago, initially I didn’t think there was much of a spark when we were texting but he was nice enough - but then after a few weeks something definitely turned a corner.
We’ve not spoken in great detail about finances but he works full time for his local council, I think from piecing bits together he earns maybe 20-23k? I earn 10k more. He was renting a room but his landlord sold the house so is now staying with his mom whilst saving up for a deposit. He’s 30, I’m 34, he lives around an hour away but typically comes to me as I live on my own.

The first time we went out, he suggested we split the bill. I didn’t have an issue with that. Second, third and fourth times, he came to mine, we ordered dinner and I paid. The second and third were cheap (maybe a tenner between us both times) but the third was about 40 quid and at that point I was a bit Hmm

After that, he suggested we go to a restaurant for dinner and the day before, he said he’d pay - which I thought was nice and a way of acknowledging he was aware I’d paid the last three times.
Next time, he came round, I paid - it was my ‘turn’, I thought. The time after that, we were ordering in and I told him it was his turn. He looked a bit surprised but said ok, though commented that at 45 quid, he hoped it was good. It was 45 coz he’d added a tenners worth of sides that HE wanted!

I then paid the last time. He knows I’ve got this week off work coz it’s my birthday and he suggested we go out for drinks and dinner yesterday which sounded lovely. He said he’d pick the restaurant, sent me a link and when I said how nice it looked, he said something like ‘yes but I’ve not looked at the prices yet’. He also said he’d come to mine beforehand (where we were going is roughly in the middle of where we both live). I told him that I usually get a taxi to the train station and then a train into town, but if there were two of us, a taxi straight into town would work out the same price - he said ‘that’s fine if we’re splitting it’…..

I thought it might be his way of saying he was on a budget (not something he’s ever bought up before) so I suggested we could do something cheaper if he wanted. He came over yesterday and I didn’t feel great so we decided to stay in. I suggested we could cook dinner with what I already had in, or go to the supermarket to get something - but he said he’d rather get a takeaway. He ordered it on the phone and asked if they took cards so I assumed he was paying - at this point, my (unspoken) logic was that it was his ‘turn’ and it was my birthday.

Food gets delivered and suddenly he can’t find his card. I give him mine to pay and he does so. If I’d been in that position, I’d have been mortified but would have offered to transfer it to the other person. No such offer.

So I’m at a bit of a loss really. I’m not typically that obsessed with money or who pays for what - I don’t mind at all taking it in turns and feel that it generally evens itself out. But I’m starting to get resentful about it now, and I’m noticing it more and more.

These comments about money really take the shine off things a bit! If I was in that position, I wouldn’t expect to be paid for but I’d definitely suggest cheaper things or offer to cook for someone.

A few weeks ago, he was over and he suggested staying the night - I was a bit thrown and said no. The next time he came over, he fell asleep but then basically wouldn’t get up, made out he was falling back to sleep. It was like he was expecting me to just cave? I told him three times he needed to get up and ended up turning the light on and leaving the room before he actually did it.
In a lot of ways, he’s great - he’s really nice, he’s engaging, he pays attention to what i say and is very generous with his attention. He’s close to his brother and the only day they both have off is Saturdays so he spends all day on Saturday with his brother, which does mean the things we can do are limited.

Sometimes I feel a bit Pearl-clutchy about things, so I don’t know whether I’m just overthinking these things. I would never dream of inviting myself to stay over, I’d wait to be invited.
I suppose what I’m asking is…. Is there another viewpoint I’m not seeing on the money side of things? It only became noticeable after the third time I ended up paying but it feels like he’s happy to let me pay. If he’d genuinely lost his card (and it did turn up once at my house after falling out of his pocket so it’s not outside the realms of possibility) and offered to transfer the cost of dinner, or even half, I wouldn’t feel quite so…. Used.

OP posts:
PickAChew · 02/09/2021 19:30

Clutching it

dizzyupthegirl86 · 02/09/2021 19:36

Haha I’m not ruling it out!
Yesterday he said he thought it might have fallen out when he took his phone out of the same pocket.

You know what though? I don’t even care now. Whether he did it on purpose or not - that wouldn’t stop him transferring the money. Or even just offering. It just seems mad that someone would go to that level of subterfuge to get out of paying for dinner.

OP posts:
dizzyupthegirl86 · 02/09/2021 19:37

Oh - he was wearing jeans. Definitely had pockets.

OP posts:
Suprima · 02/09/2021 19:41

[quote dizzyupthegirl86]@Suprima can you be my fairy godmother please?
I will consider the paying first thing…. If a guy insisted then I’d let him. But I can’t say I think less of someone for suggesting we split it. Best mate has regaled me of many times girls agreed to go on a date with him only to let him pay and then disappear in the sunset.

I’ve spoken to a friend of mine today and they reminded me that I’d mentioned it to them after the fourth date - that I was happy that he’d offered to pay the next time because it was starting to lean too much one way. So it was something I was aware of even back then, and it’s not got any better.

I feel like I’ve given him chances. I made light of it being his turn, I opened up the conversation to let him discuss if it was stretching him too much financially. If he’d transferred the money to me last night then I wouldn’t mind at all putting it on my card. I’ve been nice, I’ve been subtle, I’ve been blatant. Can’t do anything more.

I haven’t told him yet - I will; but I just don’t know what to say. I don’t want to wait too long but I just need to think on it a little more. I’ve just taken the dog for a walk, got very lost, found some kids phone and got it back to him, and am now home. Gonna have some time not thinking about it, then probably read through everyone’s advice on this thread and then do it![/quote]
Your friend is probably attracting ‘those type’ of women tbf, but that’s his problem. Grin

I can buy my own dinner no problem- but it’s important to me that I am with (and I am) a romantic man and am regularly made to feel special, particularly on birthdays and even ‘hallmark holidays’.

These kind of men wouldn’t be insisting on going halves on a first date, maybe they might suggest it…in case a woman found it offensive (some women are 50/50 to the end…dare they seem a dreaded gold digger trying to dig her share of a £23.43 bill Grin) but NO FUCKING WAY do these genuinely romantic men insist a woman repeatedly buy the takeaways by deception and lie about lost cards.

It’s a filter for the first few dates- nothing more. If he ‘proves himself’ and you are keen, go 50/50 afterwards by all means if that works for you.

KateTheEighth · 02/09/2021 19:45

@dizzyupthegirl86

Haha I’m not ruling it out! Yesterday he said he thought it might have fallen out when he took his phone out of the same pocket.

You know what though? I don’t even care now. Whether he did it on purpose or not - that wouldn’t stop him transferring the money. Or even just offering. It just seems mad that someone would go to that level of subterfuge to get out of paying for dinner.

Yep - and this is just the start

Imagine what he'll be like 2 years down the line

Lex634412 · 02/09/2021 19:51

@DrMorbius

£23k per year at 30 years old!! !!!! Bin him.
I don't earn much more than that and I'm 30. It's not great but I have a mortgage and don't ever feel like I've not got enough money. If you spend wisely you can easily live off of that amount in my opinion.

But OP, get rid. Money issues aside, him trying to force you to let him stay over is weird!

dizzyupthegirl86 · 02/09/2021 20:11

It’s not about how much he earns necessarily - if he’s on that much and still saving, then good for him. But as others have said, you cut your cloth accordingly.
Or just sponge off others.

I’m glad the staying over thing isn’t just me! If it was a drunken falling into bed thing, then fine. But he just sprung it on me one night, and I was a bit put out that he’d assumed he could. And the next time, he mentioned it beforehand and I knew I had an early appointment the next day so said no… and he still tried to get me to change my mind. And whilst he didn’t refuse to leave exactly, he definitely played up the whole sleeping thing. I’d never dream of doing that in someone’s house if they’d expressly told me they didn’t want me to stay.

OP posts:
SpringlikeBunk · 02/09/2021 20:17

@dizzyupthegirl86

I agree it sounds nuts but some guys genuinely are that manipulative! It’s like an addiction.

Like you say cooking or doing stuff cheaply if he’s broke isn’t the issue - he’s trying to control the situation though so you’re paying for things to make some point?

I went on a first date with someone who had several elaborate stunts (couldn’t find parking spot/didn’t have change for parking meter/card didn’t work/car allegedly wouldn’t work) all designed to make me pay for drinks and invite him to mine.

This is a well-educated thirty something guy with a great conservative mainstream job, not a beach bum tramp type I’ve picked up in a bar.

I got out of it paying for one drink and then ignoring him after saying I’d send a male friend to help with car if needed (so not too bad)

but the mindset of some people is just “I’m entitled to use and manipulate people”?

Even if they’re rich they get a kick out of playing little games and then pleading innocence.

Some broke people and students are generous and live within their means and great to date - this guy is just dodgy.

dizzyupthegirl86 · 02/09/2021 20:22

Could be worse. There was the guy who suggested we go on holiday to his parents holiday home in Portugal (after we’d been together about a year) The deal was that he’d pay for the flights and I’d sort the spending money. He sent me copies of the tickets on email and all sorts and then engineered an argument the day before we went to call the whole thing off.

A few months later, I found out that he’d never booked anything, he’d just photoshopped some old tickets to make it look like he had.

OP posts:
SpringlikeBunk · 02/09/2021 20:25

@dizzyupthegirl86

There's some real, real psycho's out there, and unfortunately they don't have it tattooed on their foreheads, and come in the "package" of "ok looking man to date"!

PearlyRising · 02/09/2021 20:29

He definitely isn't generous!

Also, to sit there adding sides to his order not thinking about how much it would cost, and then to look surprised and say ''hope it's good'' when you told him he'd have to pay for some of his own food, that shows thoughtlessness, entitlement, immaturity................ Like, food just APPEARS in your house ?

Early onset cocklodging is funny!

vjg13 · 02/09/2021 20:31

Isn't the money thing a bit of a red herring if you aren't really feeling it that much anyway?

Another vote for the Saturday with his "brother" actually being something else or there would be some flexibility in it.

ThinkWittyThoughts · 02/09/2021 20:51

Red flags are flapping in the sunshine. Run.

Incidentally, can I just squash this BS of "he's paying fuel to drive over". Yes, he's paying fuel, and insurance, and road tax etc.

And OP is paying a mortgage, council tax, electricity, heating, tv license, water bills, food, and drinks.

It's such a bollocks argument. He's not paying his way. He's taking the piss already.

aloris · 02/09/2021 21:01

I'm in two minds about men paying for dates. On the one hand, a man who wants to pay for the dates could mean "traditional beliefs" which can be a code for "after we have children I'll control the money and you'll do whatever I say." On the other hand, a man who wants to go halves on all the dates could be one of those people who uses "fairness" as a cover for stinginess, or who "nickels and dimes" every expense when you are on maternity leave, insisting that you pay "your share" by foregoing haircuts and dipping into your savings, but never notices that taking fulltime care of the children is valuable work that would have to be paid for with cash if you weren't doing it, and that it therefore IS your contribution to the family coffers.

My final conclusion is that, in a sexual relationship, a woman always has some possibility of becoming pregnant. In a serious relationship, usually having children is part of the plan. And my experience has been that having a baby is just an unavoidably much bigger burden on women than on men, because of the physical strain on the body. So I think if a man wants me to take that kind of risk with my body, my health, my finances, then he needs to show me that he, too, is willing to take a risk and really be committed to sharing all his resources with me, and that he really values me as a person and not merely as a source of pleasure.

I think the end point is that if a man really likes you, then he'll be willing to pay for dates to show that. If he's financially responsible, he'll pick dates that fit his budget. It's ok to switch who pays sometimes, and for him to expect that you also will show seriousness (if a serious relationship is what you are both looking for) and reasonableness by being willing to sometimes treat him too, to eat at home sometimes to save money, and so on. Apply common sense as needed. But I think if you sense stinginess in a man, you should run.

violetbunny · 02/09/2021 21:22

@dizzyupthegirl86

It’s not about how much he earns necessarily - if he’s on that much and still saving, then good for him. But as others have said, you cut your cloth accordingly. Or just sponge off others.

I’m glad the staying over thing isn’t just me! If it was a drunken falling into bed thing, then fine. But he just sprung it on me one night, and I was a bit put out that he’d assumed he could. And the next time, he mentioned it beforehand and I knew I had an early appointment the next day so said no… and he still tried to get me to change my mind. And whilst he didn’t refuse to leave exactly, he definitely played up the whole sleeping thing. I’d never dream of doing that in someone’s house if they’d expressly told me they didn’t want me to stay.

He is pushing and testing your boundaries. Even without the freeloading behaviour, this would be enough to make me want to pack it in.

happinessischocolate · 02/09/2021 21:30

@dizzyupthegirl86

I actually found it - so doesn’t look like he lied. I’ve got to be honest and say that I’m wavering a little. When it seemed as though he’d lied to get out of paying, I was dead set. He could have offered to transfer the money and he absolutely should have. But now for some reason, I’m feeling bad. Stupid, really.
It's such a coincidence isn't it? Man who never pays for dinner only realises he's lost his card after he's ordered food and it's been delivered.

Was he concerned about losing the card? Worried that he'd dropped it and someone was out spending his money? Or was he blasé? I'd be straight on my phone app and putting the card on hold until I found it.

UrbanRambler · 02/09/2021 21:30

OP: "In a lot of ways, he’s great - he’s really nice, he’s engaging, he pays attention to what i say and is very generous with his attention. He’s close to his brother and the only day they both have off is Saturdays so he spends all day on Saturday with his brother, which does mean the things we can do are limited."

Wow, your bar is set so low that you're grateful that he's "generous with his attention", despite the fact that he's not really, as he spends half of every weekend with his brother! He doesn't sound generous in any way, he sounds like a tight fisted freeloader who is happy for you to subsidise him while he saves for a deposit. Get rid, the more you give him, the more he'll take.

billy1966 · 02/09/2021 21:33

OP,
I think his meanness is the least of it.

The trying to stay over/pressurising you for sex would be enough for a lot of us.

I don't get the preoccupation with him driving to yours being a big deal.

He gets a lovely home, to stay over, your company, a break from his parents and he still needs to rip you off for food.

I think he sounds absolutely dreadful.

I wouldn't bother my arse explaining ANYTHING to him.

I would just say I was busy and no longer bothered.

He doesn't deserve the courtesy.

He sounds like a tight, sneaky creep.

I kindly think you need to up your radar more and cut them loose a lot quicker.

Meanness goes to the absolute core of a persons character IMO, the minute I ever even saw a hint of I was no longer even slightly interested.

Going forward be extra vigilant.
It will save you time.

You sound great.Flowers

altmember · 02/09/2021 21:44

@KateTheEighth

I'll bet you a £45 takeaway that he planted the card in your hoodie
It does seem a suspicious coincidence that it turned up in the hoodie the day after he wore it. How did he not find it himself?? And if he's going to that much trouble to be sneaky about getting out of paying for stuff, then that's a massive honesty issue, and would be a deal breaker for definite for me. Don't mention that you've found it, leave it in the hoodie, but put the hoodie away somewhere out of sight. If he asks if his card has turned up, then that'll suggest he's planted it deliberately hoping you've found it. Tell him you've not come across it. Then next time he comes round, see if he's looking around for your hoodie or asks to borrow it. If he knows his card is in there and hasn't been found yet, he'll be itching to borrow it. Tell him you've left your hoodie at work or a friend's house if you really want to make him squirm.

Even if he hasn't planted his card for you to find, it does still sound like he's programmed with a 'tight arse' personality. There's a slim chance you can retrain him (if everything else in the relationship is great), but it sounds rather ingrained in him to avoid paying.

As for not getting you any kind of birthday present two months in, that's very tight too. He might see it as reciprocal of you not getting him anything, but most normal people wouldn't think like that. Even if he just got something small - box of chocolates/wine/flowers. It's nothing really is it, almost no cost at all.

ThinkWittyThoughts · 02/09/2021 21:47

I'd cut up the card, Chuck in the bin, dump him and never mention it.

dizzyupthegirl86 · 02/09/2021 21:53

@altmember I’m not planning on there being a next time :)

He took it off as soon as we got back in, and hung it up where he’d taken it from. But yeah it seems a bit convenient that’s where he’s left it. I WAS gonna tell him I’d found it but haven’t. I think he’s twigged I’m a bit wound up about something… I’d rather just pretend I haven’t found it. If I’d dropped my card somewhere on a walk in an area I didn’t know, I’d freeze mine as well. I don’t think he did that, he certainly didn’t mention it last night.

The damage has been done now as far as I’m concerned. I can’t see a way of coming back from it coz ultimately now it’s turned me into someone who’s watching out for being taken advantage of and that’s not what I want. The bit I was conflicted about was how much of a conversation it needs to be, though I know the general consensus here is as little as possible.

OP posts:
dizzyupthegirl86 · 02/09/2021 22:09

@UrbanRambler

OP: "In a lot of ways, he’s great - he’s really nice, he’s engaging, he pays attention to what i say and is very generous with his attention. He’s close to his brother and the only day they both have off is Saturdays so he spends all day on Saturday with his brother, which does mean the things we can do are limited."

Wow, your bar is set so low that you're grateful that he's "generous with his attention", despite the fact that he's not really, as he spends half of every weekend with his brother! He doesn't sound generous in any way, he sounds like a tight fisted freeloader who is happy for you to subsidise him while he saves for a deposit. Get rid, the more you give him, the more he'll take.

In hindsight, I think you’re right. When I said he was generous with his time - we’ll stay up chatting til the early hours. We’ll talk a lot in the day. He’ll message me from the gym. We talk a lot. But weekends? Saturday we might exchange a few messages but then he’ll suddenly go quiet and nothing until Sunday afternoon. So yes - I take it back. I felt like he was generous with his time in that respect but now I see it a bit differently.

The money thing is too much of an issue now.
The Saturday thing (if we’re giving the benefit of the doubt that he’s not with his secret family) is an issue long term.
The fact that he’s pushed boundaries and disrespected me, the fact that he knows Saturday’s are an issue but has done nothing about it…. All more issues.

If it had been ONE of those then maybe there would be a way to fix it. But it’s too many, it’s just not worth it even if it was fixable.

OP posts:
2bazookas · 02/09/2021 22:27

Hmmmmm... it doesn't sound quite right, does it. Especially the bit where he tries to stay over against your clear wishes.

Maybe slow down a bit. Tell him you're saving up for a car /anything so need to economise on restaurant meals and takeaways.

So how about you TAKE TURNS buying and cookijng Sunday lunch at your place then go for a walk. No sleepytimes.

See how he reacts.

Isthisit22 · 02/09/2021 22:30

Trust your gut. Stop procrastinating and just send a text saying the relationship is not working for you and wishing him well.

Rozziie · 02/09/2021 22:44

OP the weekend thing is massively suspicious. He almost certainly has another woman, or even, YOU are the other woman. Everything about him seems absolutely awful. I would ditch asap, don't explain, just say you're not feeling it and wish him well.

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