Be honest. If a man expected you...

[AWiseWomanOnceSaidFuckThisShit]

to split the bill on a first date would it put you off?

Women like strong men...not women and women!

For me (1) is partly true (like anyone else I like a partner to look attractive, although "dolled up" and "slim" are not really the key to attractiveness for me). None of the others are true at all.

I'm sure they're true of some people, but they do sound like a huge generalisation.

@Comedycook

At the end of the day, we're still just mammals and the rules of biology still apply. Men like attractive, women and women like strong men...having an attractive, healthy mate to procreate with is nature's way of increasing our chances of continuing the species

And you think that paying for someone's Nando's is a signal of mammalian strength?

@LargeBouquet

You can break it down like that...but women like providers and that's just nature....we bear the children, men seek women who would be good child bearers, women seek strong men who can take care of them and their offspring. It's mainly subconscious

[quote Comedycook]@LargeBouquet

You can break it down like that...but women like providers and that's just nature....we bear the children, men seek women who would be good child bearers, women seek strong men who can take care of them and their offspring. It's mainly subconscious[/quote]
I don't think that has anything to do with 'nature' at all -- for some women, it's a form of reactionary cultural hangover from the days of the marriage bar and women being discriminated against in education and the workplace. Nowadays, the vast majority of women also provide for themselves and their children, if they have any, hence don't need some kind of 'manly provider'.

Many of the unhappiest posts on the Relationships forum are from deskilled, underconfident SAHMs trapped in relationships they can't afford to leave because they can't 'provide' for themselves. Looking for a 'provider' with the intention of making yourself econoically non-viable is a dumb move.

Interestingly 2 of my friends (both in the same professional career I am) have been in long term relationships with utterly broke men.

In and out of work. Not able to buy property with them as couldn't stump up part of a deposit and friends couldn't buy alone or only a small flat.

One lived with parents. The other in a flat share. This is well into 30s.

I do wonder what on earth my friends were thinking and maybe the tides are changing as many men are also happy to he kept and give nothing in return for it.

One of them dumped my friend after 9 years when he decided he didn't want to marry or have kids.

It’s distasteful in this day and age but it’s absolutely true for the vast majority of men

And the sad thing is that so many women are willing to settle for such awful specimens because being single is too much of an anathema and a social stigma for them.

I mean someone in that situation isn’t someone I’d consider a good partner,@ActonSquirrel, not because they haven’t much money but because they’re not independent, not able to commit to a job etc.

*Interestingly 2 of my friends (both in the same professional career I am) have been in long term relationships with utterly broke men.

In and out of work. Not able to buy property with them as couldn't stump up part of a deposit and friends couldn't buy alone or only a small flat.

One lived with parents. The other in a flat share. This is well into 30s.

I do wonder what on earth my friends were thinking*

Totally agree, but it would be very, very rare you'd hear a man saying this which kinda backs up Comedycook's statement above in a way.

(And with the same principle for women - I will admit to having struggled with friendships where people have quit jobs at the drop of a hat, expect their parents to subsidise them, etc.)

Totally agree, but it would be very, very rare you'd hear a man saying this which kinda backs up Comedycook's statement above in a way.

I don't expect anyone to keep me and equally I'm not keeping anyone else.

The only exception being in a marriage / long term partnership, someone loses a job or becomes ill.

@LargeBouquet

You're looking at what I'm saying from the modern day perspective. Most people choose the most attractive partner they can get. We desire those who look healthy and attractive because this means we are more likely to have healthy children. We don't actually actively sit and think like this...it's subconscious. Do you think we can opt out of biology? Yes the world has changed and women work and we don't live in caves and wait for the man to drag home a dead animal for us to eat. Modern life means women need to work and it's sensible to be financially independent...but we are still animals and most women still subconsciously want a man who has the ability to ensure her children don't starve. It's about continuing the species.

Do you think we can opt out of biology? Yes the world has changed and women work and we don't live in caves and wait for the man to drag home a dead animal for us to eat

It could be argued that the friends with the broke partners are the ones who have "opted out of biology" as their financial independence has given them the choice to do so.

@NLisa

One of my best male friends is a relationship counsellor and we discuss this topic quite frequently. And he has told me this: Based on his experience of talking to 100’s of man and women about this.

1. Men like a feminine woman. Dolled up, slim and agreeable.
2. Men will tell women to tone it down when they are in a relationship, to make them less attractive to other men. Like my friend calls it there is no longer a need for advertisement.
3. If you are pretty enough in a mans eyes he will go to the lengths of the earth for you. See this as the “insert pretty actress/singer” complex. If a man had a chance to date her he would never ask her to split/ not be chivalrous or generous even though she makes a million times more money then him.
4. Men don’t care about the money you make. Because deep down he believes it’s his job to provide. And if you are point number 1. He will try his best to give you the best in his ability.
5. A man will date you to have an easy life till the woman he truly wants comes along.

I keep this in the back of my mind when dating.
And when a man doesn’t show traits of chivalry/ generosity and I would have to chase him. He is just not that into me.

He has spoken to a very selected group of people who are having relationship problems. Perhaps the above outdated thinking is why they are having relationship problems. This is not evidence that this applies to all men. There are many people on this forum who make more than their male partner, most of whom do not see it as their job to provide but as a joint role to bring in the money needed.

[quote Comedycook]@LargeBouquet

You can break it down like that...but women like providers and that's just nature....we bear the children, men seek women who would be good child bearers, women seek strong men who can take care of them and their offspring. It's mainly subconscious[/quote]
I think it’s less about being a provider and more about the attractiveness of someone who has ambition and drive. I wouldn’t care what kind of job someone had if they have pushed themselves to achieve the best standard of living they could.
I’m the breadwinner in our family and would be terrified of the prospect of dependence on a man to be my ‘provider’. I wanted a partner that had their own career and prospects though as I find lazy slackers unattractive. I’m sure a lot of women feel the same

@VulvaTeeth

Just so I've got it clear- It's laughable that a man offering to go halves does it because he sees the woman as an equal, rather than just being a cheapskate (and I agree, it is no indication), but a man offering to pay is a reasonable indication that he understands the extensive inequalities women face, rather than him just following tradition?

You haven't got any assurance that he understands or recognises anything about the disadvantages facing women, anymore than you'd have an assurance that he saw you as an equal by offering to go halves.
The only thing you've been assured is a free meal.

Could anyone clarify why they're interpreting a man paying for a meal as a sign of him recognising systematic inequalities between men and women, rather than him just following a tradition from days when the man would be expected to provide for a woman?

Or why a lot of the women who spent the earlier part of the thread saying that they like a man to pay because "It's so romantic"/ "Shows he's interested"/ "It's a sign of a masculine man"
Have suddenly concluded that ACTUALLY, what they were trying to get at is that women are paid less, objectified, raped, often lumbered with the brunt of the childrearing, and that big manly man paying for your food is actually an indication of his awareness of socioeconomic and biological disparities?

We can utterly opt out of biology now. Many remain child free by choice. Contraception exists now.

It's bizarre that women still think other women just want a knuckle dragged to get them pregnant and provide.

I find lazy slackers unattractive

Well you might want to deny it but the reason you find lazy men unattractive is biological

@ActonSquirrel

We can utterly opt out of biology now. Many remain child free by choice. Contraception exists now.

It's bizarre that women still think other women just want a knuckle dragged to get them pregnant and provide.

It's not bizarre. The desire to procreate is generally strong. It's literally why we're here and why our species continues. Some people don't want to but they're more likely to be in the minority and the reason they may not want to is because modern life presents many pressures and problems.

@ActonSquirrel

We can utterly opt out of biology now. Many remain child free by choice. Contraception exists now.

It's bizarre that women still think other women just want a knuckle dragged to get them pregnant and provide.

Absolutely. Children are a choice now in the developed world. Economic dependence is a choice.

It' also worth pointing out that no research supports @Comedycook's popular 'mammalian' anthropology theories.

I find them unattractive because I’m busy with a job and kids and I expect them to pull their weight to help. I don’t expect them to look after me or provide for my family in a traditional sense - dh is a sahp.
So no I don’t think it’s biological. In the biological sense I should be the nurturer at home while dh is out providing materially by earning money to feed and clothe us

Why do so many women prefer taller men?

@Comedycook

Why do so many women prefer taller men?

Because they've internalised toxic ideas about needing to be dainty compared to their male partners.

And why are men generally sexually attracted to women of childbearing age?

Because they've internalised toxic ideas about needing to be dainty compared to their male partners

And why is that? Where did this toxic idea originate from?