Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Will social services take her children away?

105 replies

Breastfeedingworries · 25/08/2021 23:15

Hi okay going to keep this as brief as I can because I need some sleep and rest. It’s been an emotional day. Will try and keep vague as I can without much details as don’t want to give situation away. Promise it isn’t myself or a reverse or whatever.

This is reguarding a new friend of mine I haven’t known long.

She was told she couldn’t see an ex (abusive, both of them to each other but she had been in two previous abusive relationships and I do believe in those cases she was the victim) she has two young children, 2,4 both of their dads were abusive.

Anyway she was told she had to tell them when/if she wanted to get back with ex or see him. (He isn’t the father of either child) She did tell them they were planning to get back together. Social services then said okay they would need to do a review and investigation. She naïvely took what they said as permission to go ahead. So she took her children to stay with him.

Things escalated badly, which ended with her fleeing with the children. (Will try and add more detail here as the thread goes on, just wanting to make sure I’m not too outing)
He’s now actually reported her.
She’s got a meeting tomorrow and me and a friend are going to support her.

I just want to get an idea of what could happen to prepare her for the worst. I really want to be a good friend, frankly I never thought I’d be in this situation to ask. Mumsnet is a wonderful place for advice.

OP posts:
Original poster
Breastfeedingworries · 25/08/2021 23:18

Should add she’s moved, been rehoused away and that’s how I’ve met and known her. So gives indication of the severity of the situation.

OP posts:
Original poster
Breastfeedingworries · 25/08/2021 23:21

Mod please move to relationships sorry got the wrong board.

OP posts:
Twillow · 25/08/2021 23:21

She needs a lot of support to get more understanding of DV - suggest the Freedom Programme. If she doesn't appreciate that she must 100% commit to never seeing her ex again then yes the children could be removed. Her actions are putting them at risk.

Original poster
Breastfeedingworries · 25/08/2021 23:23

I spoke to her about the freedom program, apparently she said she would do it to them but hasn’t followed up with it. Would it be likely they’d be removed tomorrow or would they have come straight the way if they thought children were in immediate risk? I want to reassure her but no idea how. I don’t think either one or her other friend can speak at the meeting not sure how it will all work.

OP posts:
Embracelife · 25/08/2021 23:24

2 yrs old znd 4 yr old need stable home
She cannot provide that if she takes them to stay with abusive ex
She needs to see that
Kids may be better off elsewhere

ANameChangeAgain · 25/08/2021 23:31

It sounds as though your friend needs a lot of professional help to break the cycle and protect her children from her abusive partners. I wonder if because she has graduated towards abusive partners, her own father was abusive? I think she needs to acknowledge her mistakes at the meeting and show an action plan to demonstrate how she is going to see help and break the cycle. SS rarely remove children unless absolutely necessary, so fingers crossed for her.

Divebar2021 · 25/08/2021 23:31

Well she’s demonstrated a failure to protect her children by going to stay with him. On top of that there appears to be an allegation that he has made about her… is that a complaint of abuse? I think there’s a good chance that a s47 Significant harm assessment will be commenced if there’s criminal allegations resulting from that visit. That doesn’t necessarily mean that they will be removed but that’s one of the possible outcomes. Police have an emergency power to remove children for 72 hours but it would more likely be a longer process of court applications by CSC ( children’s social care)… if they go that route. She will be given opportunities to co-operate with the investigation and I suggest she takes every step asked of her. CSC would never give “ permission” for children to be moved in with an abusive person and I don’t believe for one minute she thought that… she heard what she wanted to hear.

Twillow · 25/08/2021 23:33

Where do you see her future going? What kind of mother is she?
From the two things you have said (not understanding she needed some agreement in principle to vist ex and saying she will do the freedom programme but not getting round to it) I would have concerns.

Divebar2021 · 25/08/2021 23:33

I’m not keeping my fingers crossed for her I’m keeping them crossed for the kids. They have no choice in the matter.

Original poster
Breastfeedingworries · 26/08/2021 07:53

We differ as parents, but from everything I’ve seen she’s warm and loving. Affectionate to the children, we see each other socially with our other friend and regularly take the children out on activities and groups. As I said she’s a new friend that moved to the area, all these things are starting to come out but I wanted to get an idea of what may happen today.

I do think it was very stupid and wrong of her to go, she’d gave me the impression they’d allowed it. I think me and our other friend don’t really know the full story about her past. Today it might be hugely awkward to sit and listen to a lot of what’s happened. I hope she puts them first and stays single.

Will let you know after meeting.

OP posts:
Sleepingdogs12 · 26/08/2021 08:03

Regardless of whether she thought she had permission she knows the situation and showed her poor judgement and insight. She failed to protect. Yes she could lose the children if she can't protect them. She shouldn't be only staying away because she has been told to. Please don't support her poor decision making. And this doesn't mean there aren't complex reasons why she did what she did but she has to protect the children or the authorities will have to.

Sleepingdogs12 · 26/08/2021 08:04

Ps why are you getting dragged into this, and this is not a side show for social media.

BrilliantBetty · 26/08/2021 08:12

As PP said, if you don't know her well is it really for you to be getting involved in this.

What she presents to outsiders doesn't necessarily reflect what is going on at home for those children.

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 26/08/2021 08:18

Thing is, social services can't give her permission to see her ex. They aren't her parents or her boss. She's an adult who made a choice. They rightly said they would need to do an assessment of the risk if she did start seeing him, and now they have evidence that it is really unsafe. They also have evidence that she has minimised the risk and remains very vulnerable to abusive partners.
None of this means they will immediately remove the children. Removing children is a longer process than people think (unless it's an immediate risk to life and limb, in which case police have to remove). BUT - she MUST take this seriously. She needs serious psychological help to unpick why she can't be on her own and why she is attracted to abusers. That's not victim blaming by the way, but there is something in her functioning which means this will happen again if she doesn't take steps to address it.

Hoppinggreen · 26/08/2021 08:22

Even if SS did give “permission” it shows very poor judgement on her part and trying to push her actions back to SS is a really bad idea.
You hardly know this woman and while it’s nice you are being supportive you dont know the full story and are just getting what she tells you.
Be wary about getting dragged in and also about doing anything to help prove how “warm and loving” she is when in reality she’s not protecting her children

Cissyandflora · 26/08/2021 08:30

She doesn’t put her children before herself so her parenting is not good enough. I don’t think it would be disastrous if the children were removed and placed in a stable foster home. That could be the nurturing they need.

serialname · 26/08/2021 08:31

In the last 5 years she has had THREE abusive partners, been rehoused and moved. She has not been naive, she has neglected to protect her children.

The best way to support your friend is to be utterly frank with her. Sugar coating her actions as naivety will do her no favours at all.

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 26/08/2021 08:32

@Cissyandflora

She doesn’t put her children before herself so her parenting is not good enough. I don’t think it would be disastrous if the children were removed and placed in a stable foster home. That could be the nurturing they need.
Removing children from their primary carer is extremely damaging and is only in the children's best interests if they are truly unsafe at home. I doubt these children would be better off in foster care unless she refuses to stop seeing this man.
Cissyandflora · 26/08/2021 08:40

@CloseYourEyesAndSee that is only true if their attachment to their primary carer is good. In this case their mother is leading a chaotic life and taking them with her. Foster care could be a lot better for them than what they are enduring now.

Original poster
Breastfeedingworries · 26/08/2021 08:42

Thanks for your responses, right in that only know her side to the story. Me and another friend are their as support today and she’s not got family close by. Both of us are feeling quite nervous and worried and very upset for her if they do remove. It’s not something we’ve thought about or had happen to someone we know.

I’m posting anonymously to get an idea of how I can support her and what to expect. I’m not trying to provide a social media show, if you don’t want to read or have nothing helpful to say you don’t have to post on this thread.

It’s later today, I’m hopeful it’s the right outcome, even if they remove for 72 hours I hope she can get support because I think they will be much better off with her than in the system.

OP posts:
CutePanda · 26/08/2021 08:44

What did her ex report her of? It sounds like these 2 poor DC have never known a stable home life as their mum drags them into toxic relationship after toxic relationship. She needs to see a professional to unpick why she gets into relationships like this. It also sounds like it’s not just her exes, but her too (you said they abuse each other).

I would keep my distance if I were you. You don’t really know her or her past.

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 26/08/2021 08:45

[quote Cissyandflora]@CloseYourEyesAndSee that is only true if their attachment to their primary carer is good. In this case their mother is leading a chaotic life and taking them with her. Foster care could be a lot better for them than what they are enduring now.[/quote]
That's not actually true.
Foster care has its place but it is not usually better than being with parents. Attachment isn't a quality that can be 'good' or 'bad'. Children suffer from separation from their primary attachment figure even if they have insecure or anxious attachment styles. It's often intensely traumatic and doesn't fix the harm they have been exposed to.

Cissyandflora · 26/08/2021 08:53

@CloseYourEyesAndSee I still disagree with you. A stable, warm, therapeutic and sensitive foster placement can be a good solution for children who are living in frightening and chaotic situations. Removing a child from a neglectful parent isn’t a punitive measure but is to ensure the child can have a better chance of happiness and stability. And there are children with poor attachment to their primary carers. It happens when the parent is not able to attend to the child’s needs. For example taking young children to an abusive situation and not protecting them.

Divebar2021 · 26/08/2021 08:59

A foster placement doesn’t need to be with a stranger. She could agree to a placement with a suitable family member if such a person existed.

AnneLovesGilbert · 26/08/2021 09:06

Who’s watching the children while the hearing takes place if you and the other friend will be with her? What other support does she have?

Swipe left for the next trending thread