Will social services take her children away?

[Breastfeedingworries]

Hi okay going to keep this as brief as I can because I need some sleep and rest. It’s been an emotional day. Will try and keep vague as I can without much details as don’t want to give situation away. Promise it isn’t myself or a reverse or whatever.

This is reguarding a new friend of mine I haven’t known long.

She was told she couldn’t see an ex (abusive, both of them to each other but she had been in two previous abusive relationships and I do believe in those cases she was the victim) she has two young children, 2,4 both of their dads were abusive.

Anyway she was told she had to tell them when/if she wanted to get back with ex or see him. (He isn’t the father of either child) She did tell them they were planning to get back together. Social services then said okay they would need to do a review and investigation. She naïvely took what they said as permission to go ahead. So she took her children to stay with him.

Things escalated badly, which ended with her fleeing with the children. (Will try and add more detail here as the thread goes on, just wanting to make sure I’m not too outing)
He’s now actually reported her.
She’s got a meeting tomorrow and me and a friend are going to support her.

I just want to get an idea of what could happen to prepare her for the worst. I really want to be a good friend, frankly I never thought I’d be in this situation to ask. Mumsnet is a wonderful place for advice.

‘ his mum was present and attacked her first, and she punched his mum, he then strangled her’

Why do you want to be involved with someone like this?

Obviously it is easier said than done but why women stay with such men is beyond me. She has young kids and should focus on them and herself for a bit before diving into any relationship. She needs to get some counselling and seriously think about how she is going to ruin the most important years of her children’s lives if she finds and stays with men like this.

She's shown that she isn't protecting her children, that she doesn't accept responsibility for protecting her children, and that she's not prepared to work on herself to address why she's making such bad choices. She's in real trouble here.

As others have said, she needs to understand that it's irrelevant whether SS gave her 'permission'. They can't physically stop her. She knew it was a risk to herself and children and went anyway. Removal is an extreme step and unlikely to happen quickly. You all need to stop focusing on 'what if the kids get removed' and focus on 'how can she keep the kids safe.'

She needs to demonstrate that she has completely cut this man out of her life. The kids don't need to be beaten up to be traumatised. Seeing their mum beaten up, getting in fights, or god forbid dead is enough.

She needs the freedom programme desperately.

All you can do is support her the best you can listen to what is being said at the meeting so you know what is happening too. Some women bounce from man to man and there is no changing their behaviour sometimes this is why SS need to step in the emphasis is on the children

'how can she keep the kids safe.

Absolutely this

They will always work with the family as much as possible to try and keep the children there. Social services aren't vultures who go around picking off children for fun.

However, obviously if she can't provide them a safe and secure home, there is a chance that the children might be better off elsewhere. If there is something that keeps drawing her back to a dangerous man, who is putting the children at risk, then of course that situation can't be allowed to continue.

As there is a history of previous social services involvement and mother

• continuously entering abusive relationships *putting her own needs above the children (both of above thereby placing the children at risk of significant emotional/physical harm)
• not following the advice and recommendations of social workers
• not engaging with the support offered (freedom programme) I would expect the Local Authority to either enter the PLO process (pre-care proceedings) whereby mother will have to work with the LA to make changes or; issue care proceedings for a care order (interim in the first instance) If latter children will be placed with suitable family members or in a foster care placement if no family. A number of assessments would take place during proceedings such as parenting/psychological assessments. I would expect the children to remain in foster care for a period of time and only returned to mother if she can make the necessary changes. Given the age of the children adoption is also a possibility. However, without knowing the full background of the case (and I agree with others that there is probably more to it than your friend has told you), it is difficult to say.

We differ as parents, but from everything I’ve seen she’s warm and loving

Apart from the fact that she repeatedly exposes them to extreme violence? And puts her own desire to be in a couple above the needs of her children?
The 4 year old is now on the THIRD abusive father/father figure. Frankly, SS should remove the children, as soon as possible.

@Breastfeedingworries

We differ as parents, but from everything I’ve seen she’s warm and loving. Affectionate to the children, we see each other socially with our other friend and regularly take the children out on activities and groups. As I said she’s a new friend that moved to the area, all these things are starting to come out but I wanted to get an idea of what may happen today.

I do think it was very stupid and wrong of her to go, she’d gave me the impression they’d allowed it. I think me and our other friend don’t really know the full story about her past. Today it might be hugely awkward to sit and listen to a lot of what’s happened. I hope she puts them first and stays single.

Will let you know after meeting.

Social services meetings are highly confidential and not be be gossiped about on mumsnet. Do not let us know anything.

Ss will always try and keep the dc with their family. However your df will have to listen very carefully as to what Ss want her to do, she will have to follow this to the letter. She needs to go to all the meetings, if she's unsure she needs to ask them.

I suspect they will state she's to have no contact with her abusers. It's not up to her to facilitate the relationship with the dc fathers, she can ask Ss to do this. The dc HAVE to come first and foremost.

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

Mumsnet won't remove this thread unless you report it and ask for it to be removed.

I’ve reported it and asked for it to be removed.

Why have you reported and asked it to be removed? The op has specially stated she doesn’t wish it removed until later and is asking for help?

they both had a physical fight, his mum was present and attacked her first, and she punched his mum, he then strangled her

Jesus. Why did the mum attack her and what format did that take?

You will most likely find out some things today that she hasn’t told you. Think about why she is taking you and another person she barely knows into this meeting, why her family no matter how far away aren’t coming to support her.

If I were you I would get this post deleted and most certainly not update later because the meeting will be confidential. In real life I would back away from the situation.

So did the children witness this?

All those saying delete and it’s confidential etc, no names are mentioned and unfortunately this kind of thing is very common. There’s no need for her to not post or ask advice, no ones being doxed it’s completely unidentifying

I am going from a FB page I am on that deals with a lot of DV.

She has fled which is a very positive point. But she also went back to a knowingly abusive man.

Probably unlikely that they will remove the kids immediately but she will now be under their very watchful eye and she will need to be VERY careful about her next moves.

Doing the freedom programme will do her huge favours. She needs to prove that she is fit to parent and put her childrens needs first. Any DV courses will help her. She should be signing up now.

Your friend is very damaged. It’s lovely you want to support her, but think what that could involve - she may ask you to lie for her to the social, babysit and cause chaos, even have some supervision of her children if social want her supervised - they can use family and friends as a protective factor as a first, less intrusive step, especially whilst they are under resourced.
Also, no reflection on what social workers do and need to do, I do know that it’s generally not considered a great practice to put yourself on their radar, and on their radar as deliberately supporting (abetting perhaps in their view) poor parental behaviour.
I know that’s not you, nor how you see it, and in theory it’s good to help and support those needing it as much as possible, but in reality it’s hard and not a linear process for folk to improve with help, so can be chaotic, depressing and adversely affect you, so do be protective of yourself and your family first and foremost.
I think she more probably needs a good solicitor who will be clear to her, however, no legal aid unless care proceedings kick in.
I’m surprised if you’re allowed in any CP official meeting at this stage, but whatever it is hope it goes ok.

It's not just doing the freedom programme. It's learning from it too. Please be careful op. Its really easy to be caught up in the chaos. Before you know it, you'll find yourself stuck in something tricky (what if soc servs ask you to take the kids in temporarily?) Or this arsehole and his mum might decide to find you, or she will decide to return to him or another dv perp

Agree @MsJinks

@ManifestDestinee

We differ as parents, but from everything I’ve seen she’s warm and loving

Apart from the fact that she repeatedly exposes them to extreme violence? And puts her own desire to be in a couple above the needs of her children?
The 4 year old is now on the THIRD abusive father/father figure. Frankly, SS should remove the children, as soon as possible.

Totally agree

She told them she would do the freedom programme and didn't even bother.

That's how little she actually wants to keep her children safe and avoid abusive relationships again.

@wizzywig

It's not just doing the freedom programme. It's learning from it too. Please be careful op. Its really easy to be caught up in the chaos. Before you know it, you'll find yourself stuck in something tricky (what if soc servs ask you to take the kids in temporarily?) Or this arsehole and his mum might decide to find you, or she will decide to return to him or another dv perp

Social services won’t ask some random to take kids she hardly knows, don’t be silly.

@Bluntness100 I work in a related area, social services do ask if there is a known household that is stable for the kids to stay in. If the op is handholding through cp procedures, then she is hardly a random

Nearly everyone loves their children, even those who do more than make unconsidered choices, and it’s heartbreaking for them to lose their children nearly every single time, and I do think actually more support/recognition of that is needed, especially when some will just have one after another to replace and satisfy our most primitive urge of holding our baby. But that doesn’t mean we can all do a ‘good enough’ job of raising them.

Love really isn’t always enough.