Should I Let Her Husband Go Too?

[Perriwinkles]

So, I am female. I have a male childhood friend. He met his now wife and she and I hit it off … in time. I made a huge effort with her & wanted to make sure she knew just how platonic her husband and I were. A true friendship then developed.

Roll on 8 years later and she and I had got very very close. Then one day, it all imploded. I thought it was a bad fight (& our only ever fight) but she cut me out entirely even though we had left each other on good terms that day. I was devastated & asked for an explanation. She wrote me a nasty text that I didn’t know she was capable of. I had never been so close to a friend & it affected me terribly. I spoke to a therapist about it and lost a lot of sleep.

Her husband, my long-standing friend, still makes an effort to maintain his friendship with me — we see each every once every few months and some texts. The problem is that every time I see him I am re-triggered. The friendship break-up cut me deep and seeing him opens up the wound every single time. It takes me weeks to recover. I have never once brought any of this up with him and I never discuss her with him. He brings her up though as he is consumed by her.

What do you think? Should I try to slowly phase him out too? The problem is … He’s universally adored! He’s one of those guys who doesn’t see people often but puts on his game face when he sees them and so ‘the gang’ all love him (when they see him at get-togethers, weddings etc.).

I want to move on (as I know she has) but what should I do?

Thanks for your messages.

@TooManyPlatesInMotion
Does seeing him cheer you up/make you laugh/do any of the things a good friendship should?
Unfortunately no. Our texts are lighthearted and good fun but it’s different when I see him.

@Cheeeesecake
People who get away with crappy behaviour because they do it with a smile on their face are people to be dropped
Mmmm…true…

Thanks @AgentJohnson

It’s time you let them both go. You stood up for yourself once before, you can do it again

I’m not sure if I’ll approach it directly or indirectly but it can’t go on as is.

@DuckbilledSplatterPuff

Thank you for your post. It gives me a lot of food for thought. I don’t think he meets me behind his wife’s back. They both have lots of friends of the opposite sex and I’d say he’s assertively told her that he won’t be losing a lifelong friend because of eBay happened with me and her. That makes me feel a little guilty for wanting to fade him out tbh.

However, what you wrote here is so true:
this is insincere sweetening the conversation and buttering you up to make you think he’s a great guy by offering something when it’s not really an offer at all and costs him nothing but hurts you because it is transparently so unrealistic and quite demeaning
This was one of the things he did regularly and one of the reasons I felt I was being treated badly. It’s as though he wanted to be able to say he gave me an opportunity to meet the baby even though he didn’t. I’ve decided I’m not going to respond to his extremely last-minute requests until much later from now on because it is demeaning and it’s never reciprocated. He used to reply to texts days later and yet I’m expected to be available to jump at no notice.

what not e bay

“* beastlyslumber
One thing I have learned from men described as ‘charming’, is that charming is just another word for cunt.

SO TRUE

See also people who describe themselves as an 'empath'”

And I hope not as I’ve been described as an empath

Sorry I tried to make the quoted part look neat the way ye did but I don’t think I have the tools

@Perriwinkles - I’d say you’re not an ‘empath’- what you seem to be is co-dependant.

This man hasn’t been a friend to you - what you are is a prop on his stage abd he’s the star.

Of course you feel awful about this.

You made friends with this woman, you forged an intimate relationship with her, you placed her inside your circle of trusted people, you were close.

And then she dumped the entire relationship.

She was the one who did this, it wasn't mutual, you didn't want it to happen, you weren't ready for that to happen.

And because you weren't prepared, and you didn't want the friendship to end, you are left thinking it over; trying to make sense of it.

With no input to make sense of it, other than rumination.

Which goes nowhere and, because of previous life-experiences, you are inclined to do quite negatively.

• you wonder if you changed; became more boring; became less fun and attractive as a person over time; did she get to know you and - as that happened - discovered the 'real' you was not a person to be friends with? ....

The list could go on - none of it is real or helpful.

I suspect that you cling to the relationship with the husband not because he's an old friend but because he's a link with this woman and your last link to this broken friendship.

He is, you say, universally liked by your circle of friends.

I suspect a little bit of you thinks, 'Well, everyone likes him, so if he's still friends with me, it must mean I'm likeable - even though Mrs Mean dumped me.'

And his friendship pre-dated the dumping. So perhaps a little bit of you thinks, 'Well, I can't have changed that much because Mr Fun has remained friends.'

And, obviously, he also knows the 'real' you because he's been friends ages, so there's validation there, too.

But why is it so unfulfilling?

Well, deep at the heart of the dumping is an issue of justice.

I don't want to go far into this - this post will be too long anyway - but two things:

1. I think you are hoping, seeking, needing some kind of validation and acknowledgment of how painful and unfair the dumping was.

But: he's structurally unable to give you that.

It's probably a big part of why you still see him and why it makes you so unhappy when you do.

But it's a hiding to nothing because he really, really can't do it. He's married to her - he can't.

He's doing his best to be just but he can't give you what you want in terms of what you 'need' for 'justice'.

1. It's really going to hurt for a long time because she is quite happy about the dumping. There is a massive inequality about the cost of the end of this friendship.

Which isn't fair. But is what it is. That's why you over-respond to his anodyne comment about her doing fine.

The poster up-thread who suggested that Mrs Mean was friends with you precisely because her you were one of her husband's oldest friends and there was less invested on her side may well have been correct.

That hurts.

I think you suspect you invested more in this than both of them - and that is painful. Hence the argument that precipitated the break-up. It can make you doubt your judgment. It can make you doubt your worth.

I would suggest some ways through this are:

1.To reframe the narrative around this break up.
Stop thinking about it in the above terms. Start thinking about it as an example of his good you are at dd eloping intimate, sustaining friendships. You learnt a lot from it. You learnt more when it ended. You will take what you learned and build even better friendships in the future.

2.You are a person who changes over time - and that's good. The argument you had with them was you growing up, recognising boundaries and demanding others do. That was a good thing. Yes, the consequences were a bit rough short-term but long-term: you are gojng to be stronger because of this, with better friends.

3.She may have done the dumping but that's fine. You don't need to have people around who don't meet basic demands when you make them. It clears space for those who will meet your needs.

4.Acknowledge your agency. You made a demand ('treat me better') and, though it seems the effects were awful (you were dumped! And the other person kind of colluded! And everyone still loves them and seems to think they're worth more than you!) they're not - you survived and you will flourish.

Honestly, time is going to bald this better.
I think you may well pull back from seeing him - it's not giving you what you want/need, is it?
Though, ironically, if you love yourself a bit more and punish yourself a little less, you may well end up salvaging the friendship with him.

Live your life. Live it joyfully. You are perfectly shaped for your perfect life. Go out and do things that bring you joy, with people who bring you joy.

Put this friendship break-up in the past. It was a book you started reading, whose opening pages seemed interesting and well-written but - 6 chapters in - my goodness! it was a chore to read it!!!
You don't need it. You're not compelled to keep going over it. There are other stories: go find them.

To be really clear, I think the thing you want from him is an acknowledgement of how awful the break-up of your friendship with his wife was, whilst simultaneously maintaining the idea that you are a good person and it wasn't devastating.

He is both absolutely the wrong person to be asked to give you that and the person you would choose to try and get that from.

Hence the pain you get each time you meet up and the reluctance to let it go for a bit.

When we break-up with a romantic partner, there's a kind of social ritual: friends acknowledge the break-up, they help you deal with the grief, they're aware of the need to comfort you whilst acknowledging the various areas of fragility. They know they have to both acknowledge the depth of the feeling for the person you were with, whilst simultaneously reassuring you the person was wrong to break up with you.

When friendships go south, there isn't a ritual and things are a whole lot messier.

It's very painful.

Acknowledging his difficult it is for others to 'help' you is an important part of the healing process. When you accept why others can't help you with the 'mourning' and the grief, you can then move on to doing that for yourself.

It's OK. She hurt you. She broke an intimate friendship. That hurts. But you are a great person. There's better on the way.

And when you do that, you can choose whether to maintain the friendship with the husband. Because you'll be choosing whether to have a friendship with him on more real terms - rather than a relationship built in you trying to get something from him that he can't give - and which you're not even one hundred per cent certain you want, anyway.

Good luck.

I didn't read every comment; apologies if this has already been said.

I don't really understand having to slowly engineer your way out of this friendship. Answering only certain texts is disingenuous and playing games. Why not just be your authentic yourself? Be honest, transparent and kind. Maybe something list this:

"I really appreciate that you have kept in contact, despite what happened with (wife). I have reciprocated because I value you and our long friendship. I have tried to put what happened behind me, but our chats bring back the deep hurt and sadness I feel over losing such a close friend. And so it is with much sadness that I've decided I need to keep my distance. Thank you both for all the wonderful memories. Congratulations on the birth of your beautiful baby. I wish all three of you everything of the best. Love, Periwinkles"

Then, no matter what happens with them or your group of friends, you can hold your head high.

@Oldtiredfedup
I think I’m both but yep, codependency has come up to me before. Thanks.

@thecatfromjapan

Thank you.

It's OK. She hurt you. She broke an intimate friendship. That hurts. But you are a great person. There's better on the way

I feel the above highlights how much all of this has affected my self-esteem and it has made me worry if I can be in intimate friendships. I need to focus on my other friendships and rebuild my self up.

@Urchinn

Thank you. It’s not in my nature to miss messages from anyone and I do agree it’s disingenuous. Yet I’m afraid of opening Pandora’s box. I do like your advice but I guess I’d need to be very very sure that that’s what I want. I still do worry about the ramifications of it.

@thecatfromjapan

Live your life. Live it joyfully. You are perfectly shaped for your perfect life. Go out and do things that bring you joy, with people who bring you joy

Put this friendship break-up in the past. It was a book you started reading, whose opening pages seemed interesting and well-written but - 6 chapters in - my goodness! it was a chore to read it!!!
You don't need it. You're not compelled to keep going over it. There are other stories: go find them

Thanks for this ^^

Live your life. Live it joyfully. You are perfectly shaped for your perfect life. Go out and do things that bring you joy, with people who bring you joy

Put this friendship break-up in the past. It was a book you started reading, whose opening pages seemed interesting and well-written but - 6 chapters in - my goodness! it was a chore to read it!!!
You don't need it. You're not compelled to keep going over it. There are other stories: go find them

Thanks for this ^

@Mummyford

What makes you think that? There's quite a bit about this dynamic that makes me think he's told her no such thing. I see literally nothing about the guy to imply he does anything except play people off against each other

I know him very well and he has lots of female friends. He also probably doesn’t see me as the villain the friendship break-up. I’m quite certain she knows he contacts me. They’re incredibly close.

You're halfway there. Not replying at all is all the way. But be warned, if you don't reply or are slow to reply, he'll step up the chasing after you. I'd bet £1000 on it
Yup I agree with this and when I tried to be a touch more distant before, that’s exactly what he did.

You're definitely not an empath, OP. You don't have much insight into this so-called friend or the dynamics of your relationship with him and his wife. Even when people are spelling it out for you, you aren't able to see beyond the image that you've been presented with by these manipulative people. So no, definitely not an empath. (Which is not to say you're not empathetic or compassionate.)

You do come across as very vulnerable and co-dependent, though. You seem to have no sense of appropriate boundaries (which is probably how you ended up in such an overly-intense and manipulative friendship in the first place). When people suggest reasonable boundaries, such as not replying to texts or not keeping in contact with someone who makes you feel shit, you respond with excuses for and defences of that person, and dismiss the need to put up any boundaries of your own.

You can't keep ignoring your own needs and feelings in order to not hurt or offend other people. There's no reward for this, only growing misery and a sense of worthlessness as you constantly tell yourself by your actions that you don't matter. You do matter. The people who make you feel you don't matter do not deserve any part of your attention.

Looking at this from a distance, and trying to play Devil's Advocate, is it at all possible that the Wife decided to abandon her friendship with you, not because you were not worthy but because she found the whole dynamic of you and her DH being close friends quite difficult and felt left out... after all you've said he makes you feel like shit in person... it must be difficult being married to him.
Is it possible that she tried to solve this by trying to build a friendship with you, but kept finding it difficult and that although the argument you both had was over a small thing, it was perhaps the last straw for her and she couldn't cope with the situation any more?
I'm not saying she was in the right, and obvs I don't know if this is the case, but it came across a bit like that to me, and rather than you doing something wrong, or her being bad for ending it over a trifle - perhaps she was ending it over not being able to cope with the whole situation anymore.

Also when you say
I’ve decided I’m not going to respond to his extremely last-minute requests until much later from now on because it is demeaning and it’s never reciprocated. He used to reply to texts days later and yet I’m expected to be available to jump at no notice

Surely that would be behaving a bit more like him by not immediately replying to texts?
Isn't that the tactic he uses when he wants your attention and wants you to "jump"? Do you think it would have that effect on him? Do you want it to have that effect on him?
You also said his texts were lovely but his in person behaviour wasn't. If so, what are you genuinely getting from continuing contact?

It sounds like you are still going to reply to his texts, but play his game of replying just a bit later, which will continue, rather than resolve the situation.

That is avoiding the crux of the matter about whether you continue a friendship which has become more of a burden than an asset, which you are not really allowed to pursue because of the awkwardness with the wife, and which continues to make you feel bad.

Nearly every pp on this thread has said take a step back from him. I can't remember anyone saying keep replying to his texts but make him wait.

Your Ex said you should focus on yourself and this sounds like really good advice.

@DuckbilledSplatterPuff

is it at all possible that the Wife decided to abandon her friendship with you, not because you were not worthy but because she found the whole dynamic of you and her DH being close friends quite difficult and felt left out... after all you've said he makes you feel like shit in person... it must be difficult being married to him
Is it possible that she tried to solve this by trying to build a friendship with you, but kept finding it difficult and that although the argument you both had was over a small thing, it was perhaps the last straw for her and she couldn't cope with the situation any more?

No definitely not. I might not have made the dynamic clear. He was my good friend (& sadly we had no issues before he met her!), she came along & was threatened - he reassured her & I made an effort with her as she seemed nice & I valued go’s friendship. The 3 of us spent a lot of time together and enjoyed one another’a company but I saw less and less of him as he spent so much time with her. he threw himself back into hobbies and goals so was quite busy. She and I spent more and more time together and i saw much more of her than him. When I did see him though, he would confide about his marital difficulties or else tell of how wonderful it all was: tended to be one extreme or the other. I felt for them both but got too wrapped up in their lives. There’s lots more but I just wanted to clear up that it definitely was not the case that she felt left out. I’m
Clear enough on everything that happened. She made her feelings clear in her thesis text. However, I still hurt over it.

The above was over a period of 8 years. The part where she was threatened was just 6 months at the very beginning of their relationship.

@DuckbilledSplatterPuff

It sounds like you are still going to reply to his texts, but play his game of replying just a bit later, which will continue, rather than resolve the situation
You’re so right. This is so not the solution. I need to figure out what is. I guess I hate the thoughts of falling out with both of them and yes, I fear it makes me look like the culprit. I know I shouldn’t care about optics but perhaps I’m not secure enough not to. Also it pains me that he and I had a great friendship before she came along BUT I think I didn’t know him as well as I thought I did and maybe back then I was just one of the multitudes sucked in by him.

@DuckbilledSplatterPuff

Nearly every pp on this thread has said take a step back from him. I can't remember anyone saying keep replying to his texts but make him wait
That’s true. Taking a step back is the prevailing advice but some have advised to do that by leaving more space between messages, taking longer to reply to messages etc. If someone continues to contact us it can be hard to ‘take a step back’ without ghosting. What does it mean? I guess I need to be less enthusiastic in my responses. Or Maybe I need to just be honest and tell him how I feel. I guess my feelings are nothing to be ashamed about after all (even if I’m embarrassed by them two years later!).

Your Ex said you should focus on yourself and this sounds like really good advice
Yes. If only I had listened. I find it very hard to focus on myself. My thoughts tend to circle around others, which is a codependent trait, I know. I have read a lot about codependency but healing from it is the hard part. Books are great at defining it and its roots etc. but I want to achieve success, develop hobbies and stop abandoning myself in relationships … but it’s very engrained and years of therapy did nothing to change it tbh.

@beastlyslumber

You can't keep ignoring your own needs and feelings in order to not hurt or offend other people. There's no reward for this, only growing misery and a sense of worthlessness as you constantly tell yourself by your actions that you don't matter. You do matter. The people who make you feel you don't matter do not deserve any part of your attention

Thank you. It’s true. They have both achieved so much in their careers and hobbies & even had a baby. Their lives go on and no doubt I rarely come into her mind now. Meanwhile, look at all this mental space they take up. It makes me afraid to get too close to anyone again. I married the wrong person too. I have lots of good friends who care about me but they don’t live near and I think they think I’m much more confident and ‘together’ than I feel inside.

he would confide about his marital difficulties or else tell of how wonderful it all was: tended to be one extreme or the other. I felt for them both but got too wrapped up in their lives

His wife would not be happy with him confiding his marital difficulties. He should not have been doing that!! I think this may be one of the reasons why she has gone NC, rather than anything you did in particular. I would find that hard to cope with. But I think you were too wrapped up and it has harmed you which is why you need to step back. She has a new baby and she wants her husband's attention focussed on that rather than him constantly confiding in a close female friend, which may be another reason she went NC.

I hate the thoughts of falling out with both of them and yes, I fear it makes me look like the culprit. I know I shouldn’t care about optics but perhaps I’m not secure enough not to

They are a unit with a baby and the wife has already fallen out with you (not necessarily because of anything you did but because of the whole dynamic) and that's not going to change. He is alternately lovely and then not so. Don't think of it as "falling out".. Think of it as moving on. Why would you refer to yourself as "the culprit" as if you have sinned? You are simply moving on from a friendship that has become very unsatisfying.
Also. Who do you think is going to be examining these Optics.. Has someone convened a court to look at the optics and pronounce The Culprit guilty and worthy of shunning and punishment? Probably only you. Seriously. Does anyone have the right to do that and can't you just tell them to eff off and mind their own business.

it pains me that he and I had a great friendship before she came along

She definitely picked up on that.
How would you feel in that situation?
Also it was 8 years ago. Both of you need to move on with your lives.

it can be hard to ‘take a step back’ without ghosting

There's been a lot of advice on this thread about how to do this gracefully.

Maybe the next step is to plan what you can do for yourself going forward. Plan some treats for yourself. What new things would you like to do? Think of other friends that you can spend time with over the next few weeks. Plan a holiday or a weekend break. Think of how to distract yourself from focusing on this whole issue and make a pact with yourself not to think about it for the next few days. I know its difficult but best of luck