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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Should I Let Her Husband Go Too?

444 replies

Perriwinkles · 19/08/2021 21:46

So, I am female. I have a male childhood friend. He met his now wife and she and I hit it off … in time. I made a huge effort with her & wanted to make sure she knew just how platonic her husband and I were. A true friendship then developed.

Roll on 8 years later and she and I had got very very close. Then one day, it all imploded. I thought it was a bad fight (& our only ever fight) but she cut me out entirely even though we had left each other on good terms that day. I was devastated & asked for an explanation. She wrote me a nasty text that I didn’t know she was capable of. I had never been so close to a friend & it affected me terribly. I spoke to a therapist about it and lost a lot of sleep.

Her husband, my long-standing friend, still makes an effort to maintain his friendship with me — we see each every once every few months and some texts. The problem is that every time I see him I am re-triggered. The friendship break-up cut me deep and seeing him opens up the wound every single time. It takes me weeks to recover. I have never once brought any of this up with him and I never discuss her with him. He brings her up though as he is consumed by her.

What do you think? Should I try to slowly phase him out too? The problem is … He’s universally adored! He’s one of those guys who doesn’t see people often but puts on his game face when he sees them and so ‘the gang’ all love him (when they see him at get-togethers, weddings etc.).

I want to move on (as I know she has) but what should I do?

OP posts:
Perriwinkles · 20/08/2021 18:06

Thanks @beastlyslumber for the narc suggestion. He does have some narcissistic traits but he’s not an outright narcissist.

OP posts:
beastlyslumber · 20/08/2021 18:07

You're clutching at straws for excuses to keep the relationship OP.

Come on, OP. Not replying to texts is something you'll regret? Why? Where did you get the idea that you have to have some kind of perfect standard of behaviour or you'll regret it? This guy makes you feel like shit whenever you have contact with him. It literally can take you days to recover. Not replying to his texts is the least you could do for yourself.

If the person in this situation wasn't you, but your daughter or sister, what would you advise? Would you tell her to keep in contact with someone who made her feel upset and traumatised whenever she saw him, just because some of her other friends get on with him at parties? Would you tell her that even though he says vile things to her at times, and there's a weird and awkward situation with his wife, she should always reply to his texts and be enthusiastic about his contact? You wouldn't, would you?

beastlyslumber · 20/08/2021 18:10

@Perriwinkles

Thanks *@beastlyslumber* for the narc suggestion. He does have some narcissistic traits but he’s not an outright narcissist.
They never are. If they were obvious, outright narcissists, it would be too easy to spot them. No, they are total headfucks who treat you like shit and still have you wondering if it's actually your fault, or maybe they just have 'issues'. And just when you think you've got their number, they turn up with some flowers or metaphorical equivalent and make you feel bad for ever doubting them. Meanwhile they are emptying out your bank account/spreading rumours about you/trying to get you to confide in them so they can fuck you over later.
Perriwinkles · 20/08/2021 18:21

Thanks @beastlyslumber
It’s confusing to be honest.

OP posts:
DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 20/08/2021 18:35

@mummyford, your gift message also made me laugh.
@Perriwinkles. I say this kindly and with respect, but having just read the full thread, I can see people repeatedly telling you to move back from this situation, but your replies seem to be resisting this idea and holding on to the idea that its a long term friendship, it would be rude not to reply...he sends such lovely messages... what would the larger group think.
I agree that the whole situation is so hurtful, but his idea of opening a 20 minute window at incredibly short notice for you to see the baby is like inviting you to step up to get your face slapped. Wounding.
He must have lost his senses if he genuinely thinks its a good idea to meet his baby when his wife refuses to speak to or ever see you again. So I have to ask what is he trying to achieve by this? Holding out a lovely rosy picture of getting to know the baby, which he knows you will probably not be able to do under those circumstances. So why ask you? I think its showing you a picture something lovely that in an ideal world you would want ( a repaired friendship and relationship with the whole family again) and then snatching it away again. His motives for this are hard to understand in a positive way. He knows that you are hurting over this, and yet has never discussed it with you?

You say its hard not to reply to his lovely texts.. but contact with him is at first lovely and then there is always a sting in the tail. These lovely texts are nothing but lures to draw you in to keep you co-operating and its a puzzle why he's doing this.

The man is in PR and its not surprising that he knows how to engage a large group or charm on a one to one basis. That's what it is. Charm used for a purpose. Its not substance.
Don't worry what this large group think and certainly stop facilitating his meeting with them. If they ask about him, just have a few breezy don't care shrug, prepared statements "Oh you know. Lockdown" or "I guess he's busy with his new baby." and change the subject. That will probably be the end of it.
If I were to give him the benefit of the doubt, I would say He keeps contacting you because maybe he too feels its a very long friendship. (I think that may be a part of it, but I also think its because you've been so useful to the both of them. I think that meeting up with you allows him to show off a bit about how great everything is and how his wife is better than ever (despite ditching you) and that there are people in this world who get a real kick out of lording it over people. I also think that he and his wife are enjoying getting updates on you and I don't think they should continue to get that satisfaction.
Whatever it is, it makes you feel like shit. And for this experience you are worried about being "rude" to him by not replying to texts, or that others will think you haven't behaved well?
A previous poster said Stop Stop Stop and I don't think they were being unkind - it seems to be the consensus that you should take a big giant step back from these people. I think they were really saying stop thinking about him and start thinking about yourself.
Its hard to jettison the investment of years of friendship with a childhood friend, but you are all adults now and just because they've known you a long time, it really doesn't mean they are good for you now. Its easy to look at these friendships through rose tinted glasses but you've already identified many many times when the pair of them have not behaved well towards you. You don't deserve the sarky comments. His wife has treated you badly and that stings but the only way to end this is to let them both go and don't worry what others think. Don't bother to tell them why, just fade it out as soon as you possibly can. Its clearly weighing you down and you'll feel so much better when you let it go. Your time is really precious, so only spend it with people who make you feel good.

ZeldaPrincessOfHyrule · 20/08/2021 18:41

I think some of this might be to do with the male-female friendship dynamic you have going on, even if it's only a really small part of why you can't seem to let go of him. I'm going to separate him and her in this, because the friendship with her is completely in the past, whereas you're clinging to the one you feel you still have with him.

I agree completely with PP that the relationship with him is toxic. How or why it became that way is almost irrelevant at this point, not to be dismissive but because it's not healthy at this stage and therefore you need to walk away. Agonising over the past and the loyalties isn't helping you: it's sunken cost fallacy. He's not a positive relationship in your life, but you keep referring to 'childhood friendship' and 'like a brother' so you keep going back for more, despite knowing you need weeks to recover from seeing him every time. It shouldn't be that hard. Remove the wife from the scenario entirely, and would you spend time once every two months with someone who made you feel awful and required this much headspace? Something is making you do this, and I think it's martyrdom to the cause of a one-sided friendship that he simply doesn't sink as much headspace into as you do.

The baby wouldn't change things for me. He's just a reason for you to get re-involved, which is why I wouldn't send anything if I were in this scenario. Not to be cruel, but because keeping him at arms length and her completely out of my life would be preserving my own mental health. For me, not sending a gift would be taking back control, and would further acknowledge to my own self that the friendship dynamic the three of us shared is firmly in the past and staying there.

As for the wife, she made her position abundantly clear with her wrecking ball text, and you fell over yourself to take as much blame as possible. Friendships should not be about martyrdom. You say she didn't accept her portion of blame, it sounds like I. Some respects she didn't feel she needed to because you were taking most of it anyway. She has walked away, you're still hurting two full years later. No wonder the husband has you dangling on a string, you're doing exactly the same thing with him only much, much slower - martyring yourself to the friendship hoping he won't leave it and/or badmouth you to everyone. You're emotionally blackmailing yourself. Walking away from him would be hugely freeing for you, you'd finally have control of the situation. Who cares if he tells other people you're a meany? Be truthful, and own it.

Him to mutuals: "Perri won't see me anymore, she's got a problem with me, I have no idea why"
You to mutuals: Tinkly laugh, "oh that? I got fed up of his little digs, and you know Wife and I sadly aren't friends now. People grow up and drift apart... now, what are we having to drink?"

Finally, I do think there's something in this that you're clinging to because you think this male/female friendship dynamic you have is special, possibly because it circumvents the norm. Lots of PP have suggested you're in love with him, or he's got secret feelings for you, but I believe you when you say that's not the case. I think you've both been saying it for donkey's years, assuring outsiders that no, you haven't and never have had feelings for each other, you're like siblings after all, and that's become a big part of your friendship, almost like your 'brand'. So, I think part of you is clinging to him more than you would if this were a woman, because you've always had to defend your friendship on some level and it ending might make people think they've been proved right - that men and women cannot be platonic friends. Please don't hang on in any way just for that, you're not failing if you walk away from him and I genuinely think that's exactly what you need to do. Let it end. Not with a bang, but with a whimper. Just let the text banter die out, become unavailable, and free yourself from all this drama.

Perriwinkles · 20/08/2021 19:25

@DuckbilledSplatterPuff

Thanks for your thoughtful post.

I agree that the whole situation is so hurtful, but his idea of opening a 20 minute window at incredibly short notice for you to see the baby is like inviting you to step up to get your face slapped. Wounding

😢 wounding is what it is. I think he’s a lot better at compartmentalising than most and is able to just compartmentalise me into a friendship that he has but his wife doesn’t.

I also think that he and his wife are enjoying getting updates on you and I don't think they should continue to get that satisfaction
I think this is true and she is always very interested in updates on people.

Don't worry what this large group think and certainly stop facilitating his meeting with them. If they ask about him, just have a few breezy don't care shrug, prepared statements "Oh you know. Lockdown" or "I guess he's busy with his new baby." and change the subject. That will probably be the end of it
Thanks. I’ll do that.

I think they were really saying stop thinking about him and start thinking about yourself

Yes, very true … this has come up a lot. My ex used to say over and over again ‘focus on yourself.’

You don't deserve the sarky comments. His wife has treated you badly and that stings but the only way to end this is to let them both go and don't worry what others think. Don't bother to tell them why, just fade it out as soon as you possibly can. Its clearly weighing you down and you'll feel so much better when you let it go. Your time is really precious, so only spend it with people who make you feel good
Thank you. I don’t think I could face trying to talk to him about it. If he wanted to talk about it, he would have brought it up as he has more power in all of this than I do…it’s just so sad. Loss is hard.

OP posts:
Perriwinkles · 20/08/2021 19:28

@ZeldaPrincessOfHyrule

Thank you.

Him to mutuals: "Perri won't see me anymore, she's got a problem with me, I have no idea why"
You to mutuals: Tinkly laugh, "oh that? I got fed up of his little digs, and you know Wife and I sadly aren't friends now. People grow up and drift apart... now, what are we having to drink?

^This is very helpful.

OP posts:
Perriwinkles · 20/08/2021 19:29

you're not failing if you walk away from him and I genuinely think that's exactly what you need to do. Let it end. Not with a bang, but with a whimper. Just let the text banter die out, become unavailable, and free yourself

Thank you. It won’t be easy but I need to do this.

OP posts:
Butterflystar76 · 20/08/2021 19:39

I’m worried about the influence this friend might have had on your relationship with your ex ending….. I hope there hasn’t been some control there that you can now see now the rose tinted specs are off?

Perriwinkles · 20/08/2021 20:32

@Butterflystar76

Thank you.

No, unfortunately the ending of my marriage was for many reasons. I do look back and think, ‘why did I hold this couple with all their public mess in such high regard?’ but it had nothing to do with the relationship ending. So many endings! I’m ready for some beginnings!

OP posts:
ZeldaPrincessOfHyrule · 20/08/2021 20:34

@Perriwinkles

you're not failing if you walk away from him and I genuinely think that's exactly what you need to do. Let it end. Not with a bang, but with a whimper. Just let the text banter die out, become unavailable, and free yourself

Thank you. It won’t be easy but I need to do this.

It isn't easy, but you'll thank yourself in the long run and feel so much stronger. I won't bore you with details but I had to let a friendship end almost ten years ago now, largely because I was Designated Bad Guy in every scenario ever and I finally had enough. I'm talking about situations outside of my control, like bereavement and depression and job situations. I eventually had enough of apologising and taking the dogs and feeling inferior, and decided I was fine with being the bad guy in these unreasonable situations. Anyone who took her 'side' wasn't worth being friends with anyway. Funnily enough, no one really did.

Ten years on, I'm stronger, I know exactly where my friendship boundaries are, and I've even started addressing imbalance in my wider family relationships. I've stopped being such a people pleaser, and I'm beginning to understand the value in myself as a person instead of almost apologising for my very existence as soon as problems occur. I've also learned to say no to people and value my own time as much as others'.

You can absolutely walk away from this situation, OP. It will empower you.

Butterflystar76 · 20/08/2021 20:48

I’m pleased there isn’t anything to look back and worry about marriage wise..

You are starting these new beginnings now… in 6 months time you will look back and be able to breathe deeper 😊

Perriwinkles · 20/08/2021 22:36

Thanks @ZeldaPrincessOfHyrule

It isn’t easy but I guess it’s empowering like you say. I need to let go of this friendship, I think I know that! I met a good friend recently for chats & beers. I felt so good afterwards. That’s how it should feel, not all this anxiety, tension & unease.

Thanks @Butterflystar76 I hope you’re right. I’m ready for this decade to be more restorative than the last. Here’s to new beginnings! Wine

OP posts:
reader12 · 21/08/2021 09:54

Well done OP, it sounds like you’re ready to let them both go and be happy with your own life.

You don’t have to be rude or make a declaration, just start responding slower to his texts, be vague and hard to pin down, and let it fizzle out. If you find yourself going back to old habits of wanting to please him and wanting to prove to everyone what a nice person you are, this stood out for me in one of your posts:

He has made all kinds of horrible jibes at me that he wouldn’t to others.

You don’t need to value the length of time a friendship has run above the way someone treats you.

Perriwinkles · 21/08/2021 10:38

@reader12

If you find yourself going back to old habits of wanting to please him and wanting to prove to everyone what a nice person you are, this stood out for me in one of your posts

He has made all kinds of horrible jibes at me that he wouldn’t to others

Thank you. I think I’ve forgiven too much under the heading of ‘but we know each other so well. We’re like family’ but then I remember than none of my brothers have behaved towards me the way he has.

It won’t be easy to let this one go but I think giving it some proper time to be aired in this thread (instead of suppressing it all as I’ve been going for so long) helps a lot.

OP posts:
Eddielzzard · 21/08/2021 11:35

Sometimes people with this sort of incredible charisma can blindside us and we don't know which way is up. My rule of thumb for friendships now is, how do I feel about myself after a meet up? If the answer is 'shit', then a step back is required.

Seems to me your answer to that question is 'extremely shit'.

Perriwinkles · 21/08/2021 11:38

Yeah you’re right @Eddielzzard
I know it might sound strange to hang on to someone who makes me feel like crap but I guess I felt I owed it to him for not throwing me away when his wife did and I thought I needed to honour our long history. This thread is like a crash course in self-worth and assertiveness!

OP posts:
AgentJohnson · 21/08/2021 14:39

This man is NO real friend, especially if you believe both he and his wife had treaded you poorly in the past. It sounds like you’re caught in some weird powerplay between the two of them, add to that, your fear of confrontation has contributed to you becoming the less important one in the changed friendship dynamic.

It’s time you let them both go. You stood up for yourself once before, you can do it again.

DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 21/08/2021 16:15

Thanks for your reply Perri, and I’m sorry to labour the point but I do think his behaviour is so provoking

his idea of opening a 20 minute window at incredibly short notice for you to see the baby is.. Wounding....😢 wounding is what it is. I think he’s a lot better at compartmentalising than most and is able to just compartmentalise me into a friendship that he has but his wife doesn’t

I used the word wounding because he was pretending to offer you something that was very very unlikely to ever happen. He put in all those conditions to make sure of it. Also what kind in be of person does that to his wife? Because it definitely would have been without her approval/ behind her back.
This is not compartmentalising, this is insincere sweetening the conversation and buttering you up to make you think he’s a great guy by offering something when it’s not really an offer at all and costs him nothing but hurts you because it is transparently so unrealistic and quite demeaning.
Why would he do that?
It’s pretending that everything is actually wonderful and you can have a better friendship than you can in reality. PR. If he was so keen to show you the baby why not just arrange a normal meeting
So I question his motives and I don’t think it’s a case of compartmentalising.
He was buttering you up to keep you approving of him because let’s face it, it must feel good to have a loyal life long friend who doesn’t complain about barbed comments and lord it over them and will introduce you to people and invite you to parties and let you charm large groups of people. It’s not a two way street.
He wants to be able to keep you on that string and tweak it. But it’s not fair on you.
It’s not a question of not being classy or polite, it’s a question of not putting up with poor behaviour, even if it’s dressed up as faux friendship.
Also, I understand that it is so hard because at times he’s “lovely” but I think the meet the baby offer was an attempt to be lovely at no real cost to himself. Also genuinely lovely people don’t make you feel this bad.
There’s lots of advice on this thread to take a step back. It’s been a hurtful experience and you’ve said you will find it hard- but imagine feeling free of all this anxiety. I hope you enjoy the rest of your break and feel better for taking a pause.

TooManyPlatesInMotion · 21/08/2021 16:37

I have mourned friendships too, and I sm prone to intense one's occasionally, so I do get some of this... But, we could analyse it forever but the bottom line op is... What benefit - if any - are you getting from continued contact with him?

Does seeing him cheer you up/make you laugh/do any of the things a good friendship should? It appears to me that it does not. I'm not sure what you gain from it other than bad memories and hurt. I would back off entirely, at least for a while.

Cheeeesecake · 21/08/2021 17:06

One thing I have learned from men described as ‘charming’, is that charming is just another word for cunt.

People who get away with crappy behaviour because they do it with a smile on their face are people to be dropped. You have nothing to lose here. Just fade it out, no drama.

beastlyslumber · 21/08/2021 17:32

One thing I have learned from men described as ‘charming’, is that charming is just another word for cunt.

SO TRUE Grin

diddl · 21/08/2021 18:21

@beastlyslumber

One thing I have learned from men described as ‘charming’, is that charming is just another word for cunt.

SO TRUE Grin

I hope not-my husband & FIL have both been described as charming!
youvegottenminuteslynn · 21/08/2021 22:18

@beastlyslumber

One thing I have learned from men described as ‘charming’, is that charming is just another word for cunt.

SO TRUE Grin

See also people who describe themselves as an 'empath' Grin