Bastard bingo - full house!!

[helplesshopeless]

Hi everyone, just creating a new thread for those interested as my second is nearly full now! I'll link back to the old one once mumsnet's browser is back up and running

This is my inner monologue when reading the snippet from my original post that @Alcemeg copied below:

DH has always had a nasty temper, I've suggested anger management counselling numerous times but to no avail.

hmm yes but it was usually as part of an argument that I'd have said that, so maybe I wasn't clear enough

The last few years since having my child have been really difficult.

dramatic, there were lots of normal times and nice times as well

He's generally spoken to me with contempt and disdain a lot of the time, with occasional temper flashes, arguments are always toxic, things could get very nasty (never physical).

Probably true but again also a bit dramatic, also I say 'a lot of the time' but he'd have good periods and bad periods, so it wasn't always frequent.

On a day to day basis we would be civil enough to each other

doing a disservice here, there could be more than civility sometimes, and we had times of joy with our daughter

but nasty looks and snappiness from him were definitely daily as well, with bigger flare ups fairly regularly.

was it daily?! I can't remember now! I was probably being oversensitive!

All of this treatment from my DH culminated in my withdrawing from him and ultimately having an affair the last few months, with someone who made me feel loved and cared for.

yes, the OM did make me feel that, but I made that choice to give him that opportunity, it's my fault I did that, not as a result of exh's treatment

So yep, I am torn between knowing that I'm dealing with a lot of guilt and it's natural to doubt things, but also knowing that it's human nature to subconsciously protect yourself and so maybe that's what I was doing when I was blaming my affair on his behaviour. Gah!

Haha OP! I think you are doomed to blame yourself until one day, in the hopefully not-too-distant future, when you can safely look back on all this and see it for what it truly was.

I think you just have to live with the guilt and not give in to it, because it's nonsense. I know that doesn't stop you feeling it. If we could actually control how we felt, life would be so much easier wouldn't it!

How would you feel if I was your guru/doctor/shrink and I wrote you a prescription saying that whether you liked it or not, you must now make a go of things with your husband? Would your heart jump for joy, or would it feel like a prison sentence?

Because even if he had been the loveliest husband in the whole world (which, let's face it, he wasn't), if you can't summon up any enthusiasm for a shared future then the marriage is done, and no one is to blame.

You might prefer that approach as I think your innate sense of fairness dislikes pinning blame on anyone.

Oh OP

You're absolutely right. If you'd sealed yourself into a lovely tight box, removed your freedom to see friends easily, work, develop friendships with other people he didn't know, put up with his sexism/other views, basically become a shell of yourself - you're right, probably be would have been "nice" most of the time.

So is that a sacrifice you should have made, just to keep him happy (and calm)? And otherwise he's entitled to be an arsehole? And that's your fault because you're not prepared to live in the box?

Why are you responsible for his actions?

But he isn't responsible for yours?

In another universe, he's posting on an internet forum about his guilt in how his awful behaviour drove you into an EA.

But he's not, is he? Instead, you're responsible for both having an EA and also his behaviour before and after. This doesn't make any sense at all, logically. So absolutely YY to therapy!

How is moving out going?

One of the most challenging things I have learnt recently is that we are only responsible for our own actions and feelings, not anyone else's.

All my life I have felt responsible for other people. I find any kind of conflict hard because I find it hard to accept my words/actions can caused other people distress. I push my needs back down so other people have an easier ride.

HH - you have come such a long way but the process of unravelling all your emotions will take months, even years. Be gentle on yourself. Be aware of your guilt but soften your response to it. Imagine your guilt walked into the room you were sitting in. Let it sit down beside you. Can you can make eye contact with it and take its hand? It is part of you and in time it will soften, lessen and adjust.

My guilt is that I left my STBXH like a thief in the night. I felt emotionally unsafe and no amount of discussion was going to get through to him and his gaslighting and blame shifting was making me unwell. But still now I question myself. Why after 27 years, could I not look him in the eye and tell him I was leaving?

The thing that comes across in your writing is how fair you try to be, how hard you try to justify his behaviour, how much you try to see his side. It is highly unlikely you have over- exaggerated in your writing, more likely you have minimized and explained away his behaviour.

Please believe me, the way he has behaved has been so cruel, vindictive and nasty, it is quite frankly one of the worst cases I have ever read about on Mumsnet. I think many posters have been very concerned for your physical and mental safety and will be cheering very loudly once you move out.

When I left my husband after 17yrs of emotional abuse and emotional affairs I still wondered whether I'd given up too soon and should have given him another opportunity to change.

Now I look back(3 yrs out) and realise that was insane thinking, I'd given him approx. 40 opportunities to address his behaviour and he didn't so why would one more chance have done it.

Its human nature to feel guilt, right now how ever you feel is right for you but in years to come you'll look back and wonder why you shouldered all the blame and guilt.

Your 'affair' did not cause the break up of your marriage, your husbands behaviour did and this behaviour continues (I don't care how hurt or angry he is, thete is no need for it)

I still feel sorry for my ex-husband. But objectively, he was pretty horrible to me. He's a much better person now, as far as I can tell, but I think us splitting up helped him get a grip. If we'd stayed together I dread to think how we'd both have turned out.

@helplesshopeless If it would make you feel better, you can look at it this way, it is nobody's fault. The relationship has ran its course and you are going your separate ways. It simply did not work out.

One thing is certain, you will be ok, your DD will be ok and ultimately your stbx will be ok too. I promise you. For now, just focus on getting out safely.

Hi @helplesshopeless… I haven’t posted here for ages, but I have been keeping an eye on you. Reading about your mum and sister, I wonder if you carry an extra burden of guilt for the affair because of your Christian background and have an inner dialogue of the judgement of others. I genuinely believe that you would never have been in a place to have nurtured a relationship with a man to the point of an affair had your relationship with your husband been remotely functional, let alone supportive, nurturing and loving. On one hand, you almost used the affair to force your husband to make the decision to expel you from your marriage as you knew he wouldn’t let you go willingly. Things didn’t work out that way, so you had to run anyway, and he was still as revolting and frightening as he could possibly be. I think deep down you knew he had it in him.

I wouldnt feel any guilt any more. Just looking at his behaviour at the latter end of your break up. His beviour is similar to a psycho thriller, it could gave come diect from a Hithcock film.
Anyone that twisted needs locking away, never mind patching up a miserable marriage.

Sorry I lost this thread for a while! How are you doing @helplesshopeless (isn’t it time for a name change since you are neither? ) and how’s the flat? Hoping the autumnal weather will see you and DD cosy in the new place.

When are you free? Free to un-glue your brain from all his reproach & "poor me" treacle he pours over you.
You will feel a mixture of euphoria & strangly lost....
Dont worry, all your friends can come over🤩🤩🤩

Thanks everyone for your support and for thinking of me 😘I know what you're all saying makes sense. I guess I wish I had just had the guts to confront him and end the marriage, rather than make everything messy with some sort of exit affair, which brought all sorts of complications and unpleasantness.

I'm officially out from next Friday. Between now and then I'll only see him on 4 nights as I have to be out tues/weds nights and this weekend is my turn to be away.

I'll definitely feel much better when I can't see him. He just makes everything seem and feel awful. He messaged me earlier saying he was taking our daughter to a particular Christmas event so not to book it myself (annoying as I wanted to take her!) and I asked if he wanted to take her to see Father Christmas together, and he said no, he doesn't want anything to do with me ever again. I get why, but it is such a sad ending to everything and such a rubbish way for things to be for our daughter. He was also a complete dick this morning, very aggressively calling me a whore etc and my daughter was clearly thrown off by the aggression. But then tonight she was thrilled when he was home from work and was so full of energy to have us both to bounce between. So I feel awful for her that she'll never have any time with us together anymore as she clearly loves it 😫

Meanwhile one of my closest friends is pondering having a third baby and I'm so jealous of her children on behalf of my daughter, for having a lovely close family with lots of siblings....bah!

@Alcemeg re your question about how I'd feel if I was prescribed a lifetime of being with him and getting back to normal, I think at this stage I'd strangely feel a sense of relief as I wouldn't be shouldering this guilt and facing a huge unknown. It's almost easier to lock myself back in the box and get on with what I already know, than to have to wade through all of this rubbish!

@Justilou1 you're absolutely right that I knew he had it in him, and that's ultimately why I called it quits...and I've also behaved in a way that's brought it out of him, and it would never have got this bad if I hadn't ended things, so it's a bit of a catch 22 situation...🤦‍♀️

@freeatlast2021 Lovely to hear from you! How is life on the other side? How are your children getting on?

@FoxgloveSummers thanks for checking in! The house is nearly sorted, my bed is being delivered tomorrow, and my daughter's room is looking as lovely as it can, got the fairy doors in situ etc!

She doesn't know anything about it yet, I'm pondering over when to tell her...what does everyone think? I was thinking this Thursday but then I'm away the following Friday/Saturday night and I don't want to leave her wondering what's happening without me there after dropping a bomb on her (and I don't trust him to answer her questions in a helpful way). But if I tell her next Sunday night, does that give her enough time to get used to the idea before taking her to see the house on Monday and then immediately moving in on Thursday? Maybe i'm overthinking it!

Sorry for not managing to reply to everyone, I spend my evenings when he's in, pretending to be asleep 😆 so I don't want to be caught out!

I wouldn't tell her too far in advance as she won't have much concept of time.

Regarding him saying you mustn't take DD to do certain Christmas activity. Well he can't dictate what you or don't do in your time with her. There is no reason why she can't go twice - something like the panto she may well understand or enjoy more the 2nd time.

I agree, dont tell her too far in advance, you cant rely on him to tell her the truth, or even give gentle child appropriate answers to her if you are absent.

I would leave telling her until the day before so your stbx cannot drip poison in her ear about it.

Try and make it sound magical, with the fairy doors etc.

Good luck

Really pleased you have a moving out date OP!

Re. your daughter - and I appreciate this is easy to say from the outside looking in - please try to recognise that you're projecting a lot of your own adult issues into her, in how you're thinking.

Disappointment at not having sibling
Needing time to adjust to the idea of moving out
Being sad that she won't have mummy and daddy together again anymore

She's only 4. She won't feel these things unless an adult effectively tells her to. Kids are so adaptable, especially at such a little age, and she will be absolutely fine as long as you tell her so, which of course you will.

So I agree with PP, tell her the day before, make it very matter of fact and something to look forward to. Answer questions very simply and don't push for a reaction to feel validated "what do you think of that" etc. You need your game face on for her. And she will be absolutely fine, you have such a bright future ahead of you both away from ExH and his toxicity.

"Wading through all this rubbish" is definitely just awful and there's no way round it, unfortunately -- only through.

shouldering this guilt and facing a huge unknown is pretty grim. But the unknown will gradually take shape, and it will be a kinder life than the one you had. One day you'll be so glad you made this move.

Feeling bad about not "having the guts" to confront him in the past is not really fair on yourself. If you really think about it, I'm sure there were plenty of times you tried to explain how things were for you, and you got shoved back in your box. If you'd been able to have your feelings heard and respected, it could have been a different story.

@Cavagirl and @Alcemeg you are so wise, thank you for being here an supporting us through our ordeal. What you say here is so true:

please try to recognize that you're projecting a lot of your own adult issues into her, in how you're thinking....She's only 4. She won't feel these things unless an adult effectively tells her to. Kids are so adaptable, especially at such a little age, and she will be absolutely fine as long as you tell her so, which of course you will.
and
Feeling bad about not "having the guts" to confront him in the past is not really fair on yourself. If you really think about it, I'm sure there were plenty of times you tried to explain how things were for you, and you got shoved back in your box. If you'd been able to have your feelings heard and respected, it could have been a different story.

Gah, ladies, help-

My daughter fell at the park the other day and her foot landed between her legs, she now has a small bruise there. Exh has just messaged me asking how she got it, and has accused OM of hurting her and says he has serious welfare concerns. He's again brought up my parents' dog re welfare concerns (he likes to threaten that he'll report their dog for biting her, which has never happened).

He's also said he will require entry to my new rental to assess it to ensure that it is safe and child appropriate before he'll allow her to
Move there with me next Thursday.

I've emailed my solicitor to update her and ask her advice and am thinking about a non molestation order. I'm particularly concerned about his absolutely ridiculous inferences about the OM and worried that he'll be quizzing my daughter about her bruise in my absence which will make her feel strange about it. And there's no way I'm letting him in my new home to assess it!!!

Absolutely no to letting him into your new home.
And yes to a non mol, log this with the police, I'd actually go pre emptive with SS about his allegation about OM alleged abuse, tbh

He is not liking losing control of you is he?

Please get a non-mol. Leaving is the most dangerous time and I'm beginning to worry he may lose it as you stand up to him.

Get the non mol before it's too late. If you dither much longer, he will make claims first and then your claims will look just like retaliation.
To be honest, it's awful to think of your daughter spending so much time with such a dangerously spiteful man. Please protect her by reporting all of his abusive behaviour to the police.

Why next Thursday? you can leave with Dd when you please, you dont need his permission.Please get a non mol. He
wont be allowed in your home.
Re bruise, its all bluff, what if you said it happened on his watch?
If he wants to call in the social services, he's on very dodgy ground. After all Why was he so closely inspecting her fanny ?
You do not need to justify yourself, OM has never met Dd.

Hell to the no, STBXH!!! Agree with taking photo and going to GP yourself if necessary.

Just out of interest, has OM even met DD? And if so, was it in public?

Because, Stuff like this, you need to record, so you can rebut his (STBXH) bonkers accusations