Bastard bingo - full house!!

[helplesshopeless]

Hi everyone, just creating a new thread for those interested as my second is nearly full now! I'll link back to the old one once mumsnet's browser is back up and running

You are beating yourself up deliberately.
After everything that has happened with XH, there is no going back.
There is nothing to be gained from lamenting, she may have been happy, You weren't.

Pictures or videos don’t tell the whole truth, though, so they? They are just a snapshot in time, and no-one shoots a video mid-argument or when they are being shouted at or stone-walled. Your videos are the nice bit which kept you in the marriage and the love which led to your Dd being born. They are not the other bits which led you to leave.

*do they?

I wouldn't even try and discuss parenting things he's suggested with him. It's all about control and tbh you know if you said the grass was green, he'd argue it was orange. He's only doing the dry night thing to get one over you. He's doing it because he wants to engage you and also wants to do something you have no control over. Next time he suggests something similar, as much as you want to push back and be reasonable don't. Just text back 'ok'

Even though your marriage is ending/ended and you are no longer under the same roof, it is going to take some work on your part to change the dynamic between you.

You may need the help of a therapist to do this, be kind to yourself but equally ask yourself what are the choices available to you, in your mindset most of all, each time he tries to provoke you - which he will.
You are going to need to remind yourself you are making choices for a happier, peaceful life and this will be tested for a while as you are so used to 'handling' him or contorting yourself to try.

One thing I found most helpful from therapy was getting into the practice of asking myself what I would love to say/do in response to anything challenging/confronting, like a text message for example. Often voicing it out loud made me realise my own truthful response was not as unacceptable as I assumed it would be. It helps me engage with MY feelings and my self-esteem as opposed to focusing and worrying about others and their responses all the time, no matter how toxic or reasonable those people were or weren't.

@Alcemeg

She loved having us all together.

Are you 100% sure you're not projecting onto her your own feelings of a "broken home" being somehow inadequate?

I'm sure she much prefers having a safe home with you! x

I think this is very insightful.

Something to explore with your therapist OP, is why you, in your darkest moments, appear to have allowed your exH to have painted the following narrative of events in your head:

Life was perfect, with the odd angry outburst from your exH, which was actually perfectly manageable by you, if you only appeased him in certain, perfectly acceptable, ways
Your daughter loved having her parents together and loved the happy, loving interaction between her parents
Your daughter would have loved to have a sibling and playmate
You allowed another man to enter your soul and thus were utterly unfaithful and a harlot
Your husband found out, and your shameful betrayl has driven him - despite his best efforts against himself - to rage, threats and abuse. And if you'd not been emotionally unfaithful none of these rages, abuses or threats would have existed, he was otherwise a perfectly caring and loving husband. Your behaviour has driven him to become such an awful person.
His awful behaviour now means you have separated.
Your small daughter (aged almost 4) regrets the situation she finds herself in, living between two homes.
If you hadn't been such a flirt and harlot, and driven your exH to have no choice but to be so awful to you, your daughter would be living with two happy parents, who loved each other and treated each other respectfully and lovingly, and were a model of a good relationship. She could have had a sibling with whom she played with, in a beautiful house, watched over by her happy and loving parents.

Why, why is this the narrative you believe?

The reality anyone following your journey has seen to be true is, in summary:

You married a man with angry and jealous tendencies but whom you believed (consciously or unconsciously) would improve over time
The arrival of your daughter revealed the opposite - he became jealous even of your infant daughter and her need of her mother
Over time he became increasingly angry and jealous, coercively controlling you into limiting your own behaviour to prioritise him and his moods
He was regularly, demonstratively angry and controlling of you for small things. You changed your behaviour as a result.
You eventually found emotional solace with someone else (an exit (emotional) affair) and, as a result of his increasing abuse, finally ended your marriage.
Nevertheless your exH's abuse of you - and your daughter as collateral damage - continues.
This is mild, I haven't been through your thread for the worst examples.

Why is it so much easier for you to believe the first version of events - and paint yourself as so awful - than the second?

Several threads earlier someone asked about what you learned about relationships growing up. The speed with which you dismissed any model of relationships from your parents as having anything to do with this rang faint alarm bells for me. Why were you so reluctant to inform your parents of your marriage breakdown? Why is the measure of success for you having multiple DC in the nuclear family?

Sorry if I'm overstepping here. You don't have to respond to any of this. But please have a think, and I hope you are able to find a therapist you can open up to.

You are so, so much better than you allow yourself to believe you are.

I should add to this:

'you are going to need to remind yourself you are making choices for a happier, peaceful life' - on YOUR terms, no longer settling for the best you can scavenge around his moods and whims.

@helplesshopeless

Urgh, I keep looking at videos of my daughter pre-affair, pre-split etc, and thinking how simple her little life was back then. She loved having us all together. Not sure if this guilt is ever going to get any easier In the meantime though, ive self referred for some nhs 'talking therapy' to tide me over until my finances are more settled, and am looking at doing that freedom programme.

You'd end up having a lot more to feel guilty about if you forced her to continue to grow up in a household tarnished by your appalling and toxic relationship. So well done for getting her out. I don't think that you pretending he is a good father is helpful or in her best interests. She learns from YOU what is acceptable. If you genuinely believe he is a good father and that calling you names and throwing a jumper at you in front of her is a only minor offence, that's perhaps something you could examine if you get counselling, because I know you do want what is best for her, but placating this idiot and minimising his behaviour is very unhealthy. Parallel parenting sounds a better idea. Just stop consulting with him on every aspect. As you say it's completely pointless.

Why is the measure of success for you having multiple DC in the nuclear family? Spot on @Cavagirl

I am sorry HH, please do not take offense. You know we all love you like you are our own sister or daughter, but you need to face the truth. You must have been brought up in a family where the highest values were marriage and motherhood followed by sacrifice and preservation of marriage no matter what. I know that I was. My mother was severely abused by my father physically, verbally, emotionally and sexually. Not only that she stayed with him until she died, but she taught us, my sister and I, that marriage is sacred and that we should do everything in our power to preserve it. That is why it took me 25 years to even consider separation from my husband. I literally realized while in therapy, that this IS an option. I was so unhappy for such a long time and all I was thinking about is how to make my husband change his ways and/or how to survive this unhappy marriage by sucking it up. One day it just came to me, that no, I can actually end this horrible marriage, I can actually just leave, I do not need his approval, he does not have to "understand" how I am feeling, I do not have to explain anything to him (because as soon as I would start talking about my feelings he would go into defensive, he would never stop to listen and understand me), I can just leave. That was so liberating for me.

And no I do not think that my kids are worse off than the kids whose parents are still stuck in a horrible, unhappy marriage. Gone are the days where a perfect family consisted of a mom, a dad and a couple of kids. Modern families have two moms or two dads, they are multiracial, multicultural and then there are families with single parents. Happy family is not a family that consists of two parents, preferably a mom and a dad and their kids, happy family is a family that consists of happy people. People who love and respect each other, who get along well, who appreciate each other and work together to preserve those values. You and your daughter ARE that family. Please relax and enjoy your freedom, you deserve it. Hugs

Having just read your story I’m glad you moved out and are away from the verbal abuse in person. His messages are just so uncalled for now. He may be angry but it doesn’t excuse that behaviour.

I think talking therapy would be a positive thing for you. You can’t live riddles with guilt forever. Good luck going forward x

Where were you when he threw the jumper in your face?

@helplesshopeless - I think you have allowed yourself to shoulder the burden your husband’s emotional and developmental inadequacies for far too long. Emotions are reactions to your thoughts/imagination. Nobody can MAKE you feel a certain way, that is a choice determined by the thought processes in response to the stimulus. If he felt bad because you cheated, he CHOSE to be abusive, rather than look at the big picture, which included choosing to reject and ignore your needs during your marriage, prioritizing his desires and needs at the expense of your own - refusing to work and grow with you as a partner and friend, and continually and consistently dehumanizing and eroding you until you felt like you had no other choice than to look elsewhere for love. Your affair is not why he acts like this. He CHOOSES to behave this way. HE is responsible.

If he was ever capable of seeing you as living being with thoughts, feelings, desires, hopes, goals and ambitions that are entirely to his, and he had worked with you to support these things (like you did for him) you would have been in a relationship where YOU felt loved, respected and valued, and would never have been open to an affair in the first place. Instead, you were a body assigned by marriage and conditioning to meet his needs.

I think you you have been sanding around with a fantasy “Future Happy Family” playing in your head like a Disney film. You need to let that go now. Life doesn’t work like that for anyone. All you are seeing is the “Happily Ever After” bit, but none of the tension beforehand and none of the tedious reality of day to day life, or any of the other shit bits that go with it.

You need to stop minimizing the abuse and seriously think about the safety of your daughter. You say he is a good dad and none of us agree with you. You may be comparing his treatment of her to the way he treats you, but we are spelling it out for you - He’s dangerous. The police think he’s dangerous. Do you want her psychologically damaged by being around him and his family when they call you names that suggest that you are sexually promiscuous, talk openly of your affair and not of his abusive behaviour, etc? There WILL be parental alienation attempts already happening. Your daughter is cute and compliant now, but that won’t last. He won’t tolerate anything else. Do you want her conditioned to accept abuse like you were?

Refusing to follow the advice of the police is not you feeling guilty and feeling sorry for him. It is you being afraid of the consequences. He needs to face the music now or your daughter will suffer instead.

I hope you’re doing ok and gaining in confidence all the time @helplesshopeless

How are you & DD doing ?

I hope you are OK @helplesshopeless, I think about you and your daughter often (maybe because my own LO is a similar age).
I hope you are taking small steps to recognise the conditioning you have been under and feeling some of the burden lift although I am not under any illusion that simply leaving the marital home has made everything light and breezy.

It has been almost two weeks since she posted. I hope she is alright.

Another hoping that HH is well .She has seemed to post only one day a week for a while ,could she be gradually withdrawing from the thread ? Has to stop at some point though I have a feeling she would have signed off .

I hope the thread hasn't come to the notice of her husband .

Oof I really hope the silence is because she is happy, having more positive times than previously. I really hope so.

HH didn't seem like the type of poster who would drop out of her thread without saying goodbye .

I keep thinking that her husband has found the thread and she's been guilt tripped into agreeing to stop posting .

No one owes anyone an update. In fact the less a woman who has left an abusive marriage updates a thread the happier she is likely to be since she doesn’t need help at that moment in time or is receiving it IRL.
Hypothesising dramatic scenarios to prod the OP into replying for your own curiosity or entertainment is selfish.

Of course an update isn't needed ,what an odd and obvious point to make .

If HH is happy and busy and not wishing to revisit the thread then you can put your concerns about selfish posters attempting to prod her aside .

I don't know how much of the three threads you've read woodburner but IMO it is out of character for the OP to stop posting with no explanation .
To be clear ,I'm not saying or expecting HH to explain anything ,I'm just saying that I find it slightly surprising .

Hello lovely ladies, I'm so sorry I went awol- life has taken over a bit with my busy period at work and I've been sleeping whenever I'm not working or with my daughter- had an awful cold that I couldn't shift! Just wanted to say hello and I miss you all! I will post properly later on today, really appreciate all of you thinking of me, and all the really kind helpful posts in response to my last proper one

Sorry you're so busy ,hope cold is on the way out .

Lovely to hear from you ,glad you're hanging on in there .I ,and sure everyone else ,don't want you to feel there is a need for longer posts .You get well and catch up on your rest .
No wonder a cold attacked you ,you've had so much stress and your immune system will be reduced by that .

Hope you are feeling better

Hello!! I'm glad you are OK.
I think its clear to say we all are delighted you are still Out & Unharmed, (physically at least)
KOKO