Bastard bingo - full house!!

[helplesshopeless]

Hi everyone, just creating a new thread for those interested as my second is nearly full now! I'll link back to the old one once mumsnet's browser is back up and running

@helplesshopeless

I guess it's because we're kind of half way between the 'me at family home' and 'me in new home' scenario.

If I was at the family home he'd be going away this weekend and drop her at nursery on Friday. The agreed timetable for when I've moved out is thurs morning - tues morning with me on the weekends I have her. So there's no precedent! 😆

And from now on take the lead that dd gave you and refer to the 'family home' as 'Daddy's house'. Refer to your house as home.

Just tell him you and DD are moving out Thursday as you staying at Daddy's house is already confusing her.

So when she is with you from thurs to tues, you take her back so he can do something with her ?
No, separating means just that. Separate.
He does his parenting on his days,
He no longer decides what you do on your watch...
Finish moving, Go & live in your house....
You'll never see clearly & recover from his abuse while he keeps saying "jump" & you say, "How high ?"

Chin up HH - I bet you're exhausted ! Don't be thinking everything is a mess ,you've done absolutely the right thing for your daughter .

You're slight engagement with another man is only of import because it highlighted the serious defects in your husband's nature which in the end resulted in your separation .

Your husband sounds seriously unhinged ,and please don't continue down the line of thinking that you brought that side of him out .He wasn't a loving husband throughout your time together and that side of him was always there .

There is no way that your daughter could have thrived inhaling the reality of your relationship .You have done so well to get her out of there .

You are going to be happy .

Thank you ladies

I think i am just going to leave it and, if my daughter asks to stay the night tomorrow, I will say yes and email him in a way that makes it sound like I'm running it past him (rather than an 'FYI' which was apparently rude and arrogant) but without asking his permission. It will backfire however I word it to be honest 🙈

It was weird waking up in the rental on my own today, it's the first night I've spent there (apart from Monday with my daughter) and it all hit me in full force. Still no idea if I'm ever going to get over the guilt but I guess I have to just make the most of things now for my daughter.

This Christmas I have her from midday on Christmas Day, he has her Christmas Eve and Christmas morning. I suggested to him that we could get some traditions in place that follow her whichever house she's in, and said I could get her a personalised Christmas Eve box that we could alternate giving to her (as she'd wake up with me on Christmas Eve and then go to his, so he could give it to her next year when she wakes up at his on Christmas Eve) and he could get her a personalised stocking. Then each year we'd swap and she'd have the same things between houses.

Anyway, he shut that down and said he'd always thought my love for stockings were stupid, and I only wanted to do a Christmas Eve box to muscle in on the fact that he has her Christmas morning, and he won't work with me on anything like that 🙄 I don't want to start something that will just cause confusion and will only work every other year depending on when I have her, but what can I do this year that will create some magic before she goes to her dad's on Christmas Eve? I was thinking a letter from Father Christmas maybe? But we already have letters to the fairies now so it might get a bit much 😂 Anyone do anything super lovely with their little ones outside of the norm?

Sorry; rambling as am on the bus to work and just getting my thoughts down. My first day actually present in the office since everything, not looking forward to seeing what rumours exh has spread about me 🙈

Oh HH ,what an utter pig he is ,thank goodness you've given your daughter space away from him and the chance to grow up in a happy environment .Thank goodness you've done this while she is young.

You've done the right thing ,you've been so brave moving out ,please ,please work against your feelings of guilt .You have absolutely nothing to feel guilty about .

I can't believe that anyone at work will believe anything negative about you ,they will know who you are - a lovely ,kind ,thoughtful person .

Sending you strength and love .

Sadly you will not be able to co-parent with this man. He hates you and has done for years. Look at the contempt he has shown for you, if you love someone, you don't treat them that way.

You will need to go to court and arrange set times for contact, he will withhold her, pick up/drop off late/early and generally do everything he can to piss you off and hurt you. He doesn't care or love his daughter either, he wouldn't speak to you like he does in front of her or make sexual comments if he had any concerns for her welfare.

The sooner you come to terms with this the better it will be for you and your daughter.

You have no need to feel guilt, he has abused you for years. The reason everyone was happy and relieved when you posted after a short absence is because a lot of us thought he would kill you. He is a very dangerous man, please be careful.

Wish you and your daughter all the happiness in your new home.

I think i am just going to leave it and, if my daughter asks to stay the night tomorrow, I will say yes and email him in a way that makes it sound like I'm running it past him (rather than an 'FYI' which was apparently rude and arrogant) but without asking his permission.

Gosh HH, you are going to have to stop tailoring everything to try to please him!!! So what if he says you're rude and arrogant? So what?

As you say:

It will backfire however I word it to be honest

An FYI approach is totally appropriate. You are not running it past him. You are not asking his permission. You are telling him.

Of course he doesn't like it. He's not going to like anything you do or say so you may as well say and do as you please.

Do you think he agonises about the wording of his messages to you in case you think badly of him? No. No he doesn't. If anything, he designs his words and actions specifically to upset you.

Ffs, stop ASKING him, or “running things past” him. Start telling him once you have her. Your nights are YOURS. She is YOURS. You don’t need permission.

On Christmas Eve my children loved hearing the story ‘Twas the night before Christmas by Clement Moore.

The years she isn’t with you on Christmas Eve you could have a special Christmas breakfast together before she is picked up.

It would be far nicer for you to start your own special Christmas traditions. This man is incapable of doing anything nice for your daughter with you.

Seconding Jusitlou here. You don't need to tell him. She is with you therefore that is ALL he needs to know. It makes zero odds whether you are at your new flat or at the old house. It is none of his business, what he doesn't know won't cause any harm. If he wants to kick up a fuss later well so be it, but don't go looking for the aggravation in advance! Plus don't worry about his efforts for Xmas, concentrate on making it as fab for your little girl as you can, ignore the fact that she has had one with him and focus on making the one with you magic. Again what you do with her in your time is none of his business.

The years she isn’t with you on Christmas Eve you could have a special Christmas breakfast together before she is picked up

nice idea Avicia ,and at her age now she's going to be more into stuff in the morning of Christmas Eve than the evening .

I will say yes and email him in a way that makes it sound like I'm running it past him (rather than an 'FYI' which was apparently rude and arrogant)

I know I'm the millionth person to pick up on this but honestly I just want to remind you, the reason he complains about things is not because he's right and you're wrong, it's TO MAKE YOU CHANGE YOUR BEHAVIOUR. Whatever that behaviour was in the first place. It's a power trip. So by changing your behaviour you're letting him win.

Saying "FYI on my night we're going to be staying at Auntie Doris's" or whatever it might be in future is totally acceptable, and this is the same. He's only acting like staying at your flat is akin to staying in a rat-strewn crack den because he is furious at you disobeying him (and your whole life now is one long disobey! how wonderful) and he wants to scare you into changing what you do. He loves it. That's why you have left him.

I applaud you for trying to provide continuity for your daughter over things like Christmas, I really do. But even if he ever agrees to things like that, it'll always be a hostage to fortune because he'll know it'll really upset you to have the traditions disturbed. So he will use it as a threat over you in future "well if you don't agree XYZ then I won't do her christmas stocking".

Much better to have "mum's house" traditions and "dad's house" traditions, whatever they turn out to be. Do them when you have her. She will get used to it.

I don't know whether I'm pleased or sad to notice this, but it's clear she's already really keen on being at "mum's place", despite it being new to her. The only reason for that is that you're such a loving and brill parent.

What a lovely post @peridito

You can make your home wonderfully cozy & a lovely Xmas tree.
When we were very small my parents decorated the tree when we had gone to bed & woke us up to come down & see it that night. all sparkling, it was like a fairytale,
We, my bros & I, still remember the ritual.
Special treats, Hot chocolate, making a "grotto" with blankets & a special place for the reindeer to warm up, all sorts of magical things will make her love Xmas with you.
Don't tell him what you are doing
If its your watch you can take her where you want, when you want.
(So can He.)
It is "courteous" to tell him, but then he using this common decent sharing of information to destroy your state of mind & bandying about across the board declarations of what you can, or can't, do...
Yeah, well he's not the Boss of you.
Grey Rock... Oh well, Oh dear, we"ll see, Hmmmm

I'd not bother telling him at all if you stay at your house. If your dd tell him and he kicks off, just smile and nod. If he asks you a direct question about your dd then answer that, and only that. If he asks why you didn't tell him, simply tell him that she was safe and secure with you. End of conversation

Make your own Christmas traditions, that way he can't hold a Christmas box or stocking to ransom when it's your year.

You could have a Christmas Eve Eve, where she wakes up one or two small gifts, the has a Christmas breakfast of chocolate, ice cream and pop, then a walk in a forest with a hot chocolate (and an energy drink in there - I'm joking) just before dropping her off with him full of sugar:

The problem if she does a pre-pre Christmas, he will retaliate in some way next year.

Why should you waste one of your precious nights with dd by spending it at 'Daddy's house'?

Not necessary. Not reasonable.
If dd wants to spend the night in her new home that is absolutely brilliant and should totally trump his feelings on the matter. Because actually, it's your night with her, nothing to do with him.

Please stop trying to please this absolute prick of a man. It isn't actually possible and you are wasting your time.

Start as you mean to go on. Just not being interested or affected by his opinions, his words, his bile, his lies about applications for divorce and new schools, his declarations about your character and behaviour... IT DOESN'T MATTER NOW WHAT HE THINKS. Take the focus OFF him, and instead focus solely on you, DD, and your lovely new life together.

Hi HH, I saw your original thread and after a couple of days catching up, you are literally my friend who went through pretty much the exact same journey.

I agree with many pp, he will never co-parent with you so you really need to draw those boundaries and work on the basis your daughter will have 2 very different lives. It took my friend a long time to accept this and this held her back a lot trying to put on a combined front.

Everyone saw through his attempts to bad mouth her. The school, social services, the police (there were a lot of anonymous calls about her breaking lockdown ).

Even things like her dd has a handover outfit as they can't share clothes.

If you can sort out the contact times so there's no deviation, you can plan Christmas around your times and have your own traditions.

Your dd is already wising up to the game playing. Your home will be her (and your) sanctuary.

Please lose the guilt if you can. Even if your ex was a nice guy, life happens. You are not his hostage.

The problem if she does a pre-pre Christmas, he will retaliate in some way next year

Then let him do this. It's about making sure she has a lovely Christmas Eve morning with her dd, if knobhead decides to do a pre-pre then that's his decision. Don't let it bother you. By next year hopefully the op will be better prepared and have the distance from him to just shrug and let it wash over he r

@helplesshopeless

Well, that was awful 💔 I was planning on telling her just as a casual moment while she was in the bath and told him so he could be there too, but he kept huffing and puffing while I was trying to find the right moment and then storming off just as I was about to work up the courage!

Anyway, I told her and she immediately said she wanted to stay with me. I explained she'd live in both houses and she was then crying and clinging to me, and asked if daddy knew about our new house 💔 he said nothing helpful at all, just glowered over me. I feel like the most awful most selfish person in the world right now.

She seems to have bounced back now but not sure how much she's actually taken in. Will be taking her round there for lunch tomorrow so will see how that goes...

I know this is rewinding a bit, but this jumped out at me:

Anyway, I told her and she immediately said she wanted to stay with me. I explained she'd live in both houses and she was then crying and clinging to me, and asked if daddy knew about our new house 💔 he said nothing helpful at all, just glowered over me.

Are you sure she's not scared of him?

I'm sorry, I have nothing to add into this conversation as I never had children. That was just my passing impression, FWIW.

Good luck OP! OMG, what a long way you have come. One day you will read your original thread and be so proud of what you've achieved.

I also want to add that it is absolutely not normal or or usual for kids to continue stay in the same house with both of their warring parents who have separated once different places of residence have been accomplished.
He is so very abusive he is also terrifying and abusing your child by being so vile to you. You must be able to see this.

To me it does sound a bit as though she is desperate for a safe space. x

It does sound like she knows she has to "behave" for Daddy. But you are clearly her safe place, take heart that you have done your best to keep the family intact, but he consistently kept bullying & his inner self unleashed, has proven how devious & spiteful he is. His lying about the divorce papers & school application, his threats to push you off the pavement & down the stairs.. Your daughter would ultimately understand his hate directed at you. You honestly had no choice, without staying & being slowly destroyed by him.
Dd will be fine, stop flagellating yourself.
Grey rock the bastard, take her to see Santa before him, go wherever you want. You do not tell him you are out, or going to granny's, cut him out of your thoughts, tell him you will only respond to email & only to any dd related essential questions, you can block him on the phone other than when she is with him. you do not need to hear his accusations & reproaches
Do not ever let him in your house, for whatever reason, if you forget something, lock the door behind you or he will follow you in & violate your safe place, pushing you out of the way.
Changeovers on the pavement only,
There will be no friendly co parenting. So you have to accept that he will not be a caring adult & prioritize dd's wellbeing over his own anger, spite & abuse.
KOKO, you will be happy again.

Thank you everyone for the Christmas tips! And for reminding me that I need to stop tailoring my behaviour in pointless attempts to avoid negative responses from him 🙈

Today actually worked out well (apart from the usual constant vitriol and abuse) - I went over first thing as planned and was packing up bits and pieces with my daughter. He basically picked up on the fact that I was packing things we'd need for the weekend and so deduced that I was anticipating staying away that night. I confirmed that if that was what she wanted then we would.

He pretty much accepted it (again, constant abuse but didn't try to argue that point) and when I sent our daughter in to his office to say goodbye I overheard him say a few sweet things to her about having a lovely time in her new house and new bedroom and that he'd miss her and couldn't wait to see her again. It reminded me of his soft 'daddy' side and how sad he would be to not see her all weekend (guilt trip alert...)

Anyway, without the stress of potentially having to return for one last night looming over me, I had such a lovely day with my daughter in our house!! Just a really special time hanging out and dancing and painting and playing ❤️ my parents came round to see the house and she was so thrilled to show them around, she even tucked my mum into her bed to show her what a big girl bed was like 😂 and I have another 4 sleeps with her all to myself ❤️❤️❤️