Give this one a swerve? (Possible trigger warning)

[Timmysdownthewell]

Name changed for some opinions on this guys.

So, had a date at the weekend. Guy was great company and everything just felt comfortable with him. A great kisser too and...well, at the end of the night we ended up back at his. Just for a little fool about, no actual shagging involved. I made it clear that I don't do sex until a bit further down the line just because I find it a bit shit before you get to know someone. So that 'my trousers would be staying on'.

I should say that I'm not necessarily looking for a relationship right now. Oh and we are both double jagged.

Anyway, sorry to be graphic, but at one point he goes 'are you wet?' and proceeds to put his hand, down there. Now I was not ok with that but mostly because I haven't shaved in a while so I grabbed his hand and attempted to pull it back. There was maybe a two second window in which it took me to say 'I've not shaved so...' to which he said it didn't bother him and proceeded to have a grope about.

Now, if I honest, it just irritated me a little at the time. But didn't seem like a big deal. But now I think on it...that two second window before I told him why I didn't want his hand down there...and exerted pressure on his hand to pull it back. He should have said 'oops, sorry' and removed his hand right?

Now I've no need for the sexual assault brigade lol because I wouldn't put it in that category. Because you could argue that he thought hands groping about were acceptable seen as I'd allowed it in the top half. But I'm thinking maybe I should bin this one off right? Because if he does that without permission, he might be the sort who takes further leaps.

It's a shame because I liked this one. But I guess in hindsight it is a pretty big red flag right?

Go with your gut instinct and bin him.

Also, we've been messaging the last few days and had loose plans to meet. Suggestions on how to cancel? And he actually paid for everything on the first date, and even my taxi home. I normally would say that's a mans prerogative but it was probably 80 quid. And he is not well off. I had intended to treat next time. Should I suggest sending him over some money?

Someone put their hand between your legs when you didn’t want them to, and didn’t immediately apologise and remove it when you told him to stop (though I have no idea why you needed to invent excuses about shaving — a ‘no’ is enough). And now you’re looking for polite reasons to cancel a second date and sending him money? Tell him you won’t be going on a second date with someone who doesn’t respect your boundaries.

Actually counting it up, 60 quid (plus whatever he spent on himself and his transport). Hmm, maybe I can just let it slide.

So he pays for things and gets to assault you? No thanks.

You are right, when you said no, he should have stopped. No reasoning or excuses needed. Consent for one thing is not consent for another. Tell him you were uncomfortable with the way things progressed and don't want to see him again.

@NotableTree

Someone put their hand between your legs when you didn’t want them to, and didn’t immediately apologise and remove it when you told him to stop (though I have no idea why you needed to invent excuses about shaving — a ‘no’ is enough). And now you’re looking for polite reasons to cancel a second date and sending him money? Tell him you won’t be going on a second date with someone who doesn’t respect your boundaries.

Yeah you're right. Although I wasnt inventing the reason, that is why I didn't want his hand down there.

Ugh no I wouldn't see him again. He sounds awful.

@Timmysdownthewell

Actually counting it up, 60 quid (plus whatever he spent on himself and his transport). Hmm, maybe I can just let it slide.

You'll let him assaulting you slide cause he spent £60?

I would just have said he was hot and horny. I’m not sure that would convince me he was a predator unless there were some further red flags.

Be honest with him and tell him why you don't want a second date. It might teach him a lesson about boundaries and respecting women.

@FreeBritnee

I would just have said he was hot and horny. I’m not sure that would convince me he was a predator unless there were some further red flags.

See that's more my feeling. That it was hear of the moment. But I'm just thinking that its maybe not wise to take any risks.

*heat of

The money he spent is irrelevant. You're not a sex worker so any kind of intimacy isn't transactional; it should be a mutual decsion based on shared enjoyment and agreed boundaries.

You said your trousers were going to stay on but he put his pleasure ahead of caring about whether you were comfortable with what was happening. He pushed your boundaries and will keep pushing them.

Tell him that you don't want to see him again and block him.

He had TWO warnings not to do so.

1- you explicitly said before anything started your lower half was out of bounds. He ignored this and touched you anyways.

2- after touching you against your wishes, you GRABBED HIS HAND to stop him, told him your reason (and any reason or NO reason is valid) and he put his hand back on your genitals anyways for his own pleasure, completely violating your body and your wishes.

And you think it's not a real red flag?

No I didn't say it was out of bounds. I just said no sex so I would be keeping my trousers on.

The second one, arguably.

No no no.

And you don’t owe him anything.

If that’s the FIRST date it will only get worse.

You don’t need a reason to bin him off.

OP - you seem to be trying to justify his behaviour. You set boundaries and he tried to push them. If it was me, I would feel very uncomfortable going on a second date with him in case he tried to do it again or take things further.

I've no need for the sexual assault brigade lol
🙄
Perhaps the sexual assault brigade have a better grasp on what constitutes respectful behaviour?
You clearly make allowances for a man who will ignore your wishes so don't see the point in you posting really.

Agree that it's questionable however lost in a moment of hot & heavy. If you like him, why not have a second date, don't agree to go back to his / your place, but have a conversation with him about what happened / your thoughts. You need to base a relationship on being able to have open, honest conversations & this will give you your answer.

@mug2018

Agree that it's questionable however lost in a moment of hot & heavy. If you like him, why not have a second date, don't agree to go back to his / your place, but have a conversation with him about what happened / your thoughts. You need to base a relationship on being able to have open, honest conversations & this will give you your answer.

Agree with this

@VsgKitt

He had TWO warnings not to do so.

1- you explicitly said before anything started your lower half was out of bounds. He ignored this and touched you anyways.

2- after touching you against your wishes, you GRABBED HIS HAND to stop him, told him your reason (and any reason or NO reason is valid) and he put his hand back on your genitals anyways for his own pleasure, completely violating your body and your wishes.

And you think it's not a real red flag?

I’m no apologist and generally think the worst of men, but in this case I’d say:

a) no she didn’t. She said no sex. Which doesn’t rule out hand stuff, oral etching most people and the line where general “fooling around” becomes out of bounds was not crystal clear.

b) OP said no and stopped his hand because she hadn’t shaved - in other words (to him, I’m sure) implied it was because HE wouldn’t like it. When he said he didn’t mind a bit of hair down there in his mind that was problem solved.

OP fwiw I wouldn’t actually agree with most of these posts saying throw him back, he’s no good. He may or may not be, but this incident alone wouldn’t be a deal breaker, it would be a case for opening up and seeing how he deals with a hard no in the real world.

I also decided not to ‘have sex’ on my first or second dates with my DP but hands and oral we’re definitely ok for me in that scenario. I know we all have different definitions of ‘sex’ but most people would think that it’s just PIV (& probably anal too!) that’s off the menu when you say no sex.

So I don’t think you had hard boundaries that he pushed past, I think you had soft boundaries that you articulated in a slightly woolly way.

If you have a bad feeling then by all means listen to it, you don’t have to date anyone you don’t want to, but without being there in the moment nobody else can say how bad this was but you.

In not criticising you in any way, I'm just trying to understand the exact circumstances, but if your trousers were staying on, how did he end up touching you intimately and directly?

(Did you not mean literal trousers? In that case same question i suppose, how did he end up touching you intimately re underwear etc)

Just trying to get clear on the one sided actions from him.

Oral etching . *Oral Etc

This would really bother me, and I suspect it does you too, or you wouldn't have posted about it. Listen to your gut.

I may be old fashioned but if I said ‘no sex’, I would mean no oral as well.

Trying to imagine if the situations were reversed and a man said he wanted to keep his trousers on - you wouldn’t stick your hand down and grope his genitals surely? I’d assume he wouldn’t want to be over-stimulated if that was what he’d decided.