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Original poster

Give this one a swerve? (Possible trigger warning)

126 replies

Timmysdownthewell · 12/08/2021 08:23

Name changed for some opinions on this guys.

So, had a date at the weekend. Guy was great company and everything just felt comfortable with him. A great kisser too and...well, at the end of the night we ended up back at his. Just for a little fool about, no actual shagging involved. I made it clear that I don't do sex until a bit further down the line just because I find it a bit shit before you get to know someone. So that 'my trousers would be staying on'.

I should say that I'm not necessarily looking for a relationship right now. Oh and we are both double jagged.

Anyway, sorry to be graphic, but at one point he goes 'are you wet?' and proceeds to put his hand, down there. Now I was not ok with that but mostly because I haven't shaved in a while so I grabbed his hand and attempted to pull it back. There was maybe a two second window in which it took me to say 'I've not shaved so...' to which he said it didn't bother him and proceeded to have a grope about.

Now, if I honest, it just irritated me a little at the time. But didn't seem like a big deal. But now I think on it...that two second window before I told him why I didn't want his hand down there...and exerted pressure on his hand to pull it back. He should have said 'oops, sorry' and removed his hand right?

Now I've no need for the sexual assault brigade lol because I wouldn't put it in that category. Because you could argue that he thought hands groping about were acceptable seen as I'd allowed it in the top half. But I'm thinking maybe I should bin this one off right? Because if he does that without permission, he might be the sort who takes further leaps.

It's a shame because I liked this one. But I guess in hindsight it is a pretty big red flag right?

OP posts:
Heatherjayne1972 · 12/08/2021 09:21

Yeah bin this one and move on
Your instinct is telling you something here

Lunaduckdrop · 12/08/2021 09:26

This was a first date, so the best behaviour you can expect from him! Whether a first date or nor he should have respected your boundaries. It's a Red Flag from me.

Honeyroar · 12/08/2021 09:29

You felt uncomfortable enough about him/what happened to write this thread.. Trust your gut instinct. It doesn’t matter how/what happened- it isn’t right and you’re feeling like you don’t want to see him again.

Original poster
Timmysdownthewell · 12/08/2021 09:30

It wasn't till today I gave it a moments thought. It wasn't a big deal in the moment to me. Would not say I'm cutting him slack though considering I've decided not to see him again. Even though I was rather looking forwards to seeing him again.

But as far as I'm concerned the only issue is that 2 second window where there was pressure on his hand from me before I had said why I didn't want his hand there. That brief time period of 'oh,I may not have consent' where he should have pulled his hand back. But I feel that's enough to not see him again. Even if it was just a heat of the moment thing. It's best not to risk it.

OP posts:
CeeceeBloomingdale · 12/08/2021 09:35

Sounds like you've reached a decision. I do think you should have been clearer though. Saying you haven't shaved makes it sound as though you are warning him and he said he was ok with it. No or I don't want you to do that would be clearer. You said you didn't want to have sex but didn't say no sexual activity. You need to say what you mean so there is no confusion about consent.

Sunshineandflipflops · 12/08/2021 09:35

@mug2018

Agree that it's questionable however lost in a moment of hot & heavy. If you like him, why not have a second date, don't agree to go back to his / your place, but have a conversation with him about what happened / your thoughts. You need to base a relationship on being able to have open, honest conversations & this will give you your answer.
I also agree with this.

I wouldn't automatically jump to sexual assault with this. You were getting hot and steamy, he maybe assumed you were self conscious about not having shaved and he wanted to let you know it didn't matter to him, without thinking about how it mattered to you.

If otherwise you enjoyed your evening and liked him, I would be inclined to either have another date and/or mention what happened to him while you're not hot an steamy and see how he reacts.

Sunshineandflipflops · 12/08/2021 09:36

I posted too soon as you have decided not to see him again.

Original poster
Timmysdownthewell · 12/08/2021 09:37

And also, thinking on it from the opposite perspective...

If a guy had said he didnt want sex and we were rolling about a bit just being touchy feely...i dont think I would have felt I had permission to ask him if he was hard and then stick my hand down his trousers to check. It's a wholey inappropriate move right?

So yeah, I think bin time for this one.

OP posts:
Original poster
Timmysdownthewell · 12/08/2021 09:39

@CeeceeBloomingdale

Sounds like you've reached a decision. I do think you should have been clearer though. Saying you haven't shaved makes it sound as though you are warning him and he said he was ok with it. No or I don't want you to do that would be clearer. You said you didn't want to have sex but didn't say no sexual activity. You need to say what you mean so there is no confusion about consent.
But the consent issue was me pulling his hand back. That's pretty clear right?
OP posts:
Sunshineandflipflops · 12/08/2021 09:40

Yeah, the be fair the "are you wet" comment would be a bit yuck for me on a first date.

Original poster
Timmysdownthewell · 12/08/2021 09:41

@Sunshineandflipflops

Yeah, the be fair the "are you wet" comment would be a bit yuck for me on a first date.
Yeah I was a bit like 'eww'. Was kinda still taken aback from that when his hand decided to to walkabout so it took me a few seconds to react.
OP posts:
WhiskeyGalore212 · 12/08/2021 09:48

OK so he stuck his hand down your trousers/underwear; after you said your trousers stay on.

I agree with poster who said no sex would not necessarily mean no manual or oral sex. And maybe that the trousers stay on thing could have been meant to mean no penetrative sex..... however, that's pretty inappropriate/aggressive/full on in the circumstances.

Your under pressure/impulsive response when he did it (not shaved) would make him think you consented from that that point - that the issue was self consciousness about grooming, not lack of consent so it was OK once he'd reassured you he didvt mind about grooming.

But before that point he didn't have any consent and it was inappropriate to stick his hand down your trousers without checking it was OK first.

cariadlet · 12/08/2021 09:49

Very clear. Even if some of your words could have been misinterpreted, pulling his hand back was completely unambiguous. Even if he ignored your words, there was no excuse for ignoring your actions.

Regularsizedrudy · 12/08/2021 09:50

@BowtieBling

I've no need for the sexual assault brigade lol 🙄 Perhaps the sexual assault brigade have a better grasp on what constitutes respectful behaviour? You clearly make allowances for a man who will ignore your wishes so don't see the point in you posting really.
How exactly is this helpful?
Greenrubber · 12/08/2021 09:52

I don't know!
You went back to his with the intention of fooling around and you made it clear no sex but there is a big grey area here isn't there?
I think it's a difficult one how far were u willing to go did you make that clear? Did you put your hands /mouth down in his bits? In his head is hands OK as long as he didn't stick his dick in you?

If it feels off it probably is but it doesn't sound weird or a red flag to me but I only read your inital post

WhiskeyGalore212 · 12/08/2021 09:52

The thing is, what people think is acceptable/normal during heavy petting (sorry for younger than phrase) might well.inclyde what he did. I find this just a tricky scenario to comment on.

I think in our current society, he should have checked for consent, bit u understand from previous why he might think going back fmyk his for everything except sex (or so he thought) might cause him to think consent had been given broadly for heavy petting/intimate touching.

Original poster
Timmysdownthewell · 12/08/2021 09:52

Yes pp. He had consent after I mentioned not having shaved. Arguably. The issue was that few seconds where I reacted to his hand going that direction by attempting to pull it back. Like, if someone puts pressure on your hand to pull it away, that to me is an obvious 'no'.

And also as pps have pointed out, it was dubious to go that route without express permission too. But for me the above point is my main issue.

OP posts:
WhiskeyGalore212 · 12/08/2021 09:54

@Sunshineandflipflops

Yeah, the be fair the "are you wet" comment would be a bit yuck for me on a first date.
Yeah it's also pretty full on/a not porn-y for a first date.
Original poster
Timmysdownthewell · 12/08/2021 09:55

Sorry that last one was a response to whisky.

As for questions, I kept everything above the waist with him so never went near his downstairs.

OP posts:
WhiskeyGalore212 · 12/08/2021 09:57

The issue was that few seconds where I reacted to his hand going that direction by attempting to pull it back. Like, if someone puts pressure on your hand to pull it away, that to me is an obvious 'no'.

Sorry, i actually missed the hand pulling back thing. I understand things can happen very quickly and sort of simultaneously in these circumstances; if your "don't, I'm.not shaved comment" came quickly on the back of the pulling hand, then (at a push!) I could understand him thinking he had consent or didn't not have consent.

But yeah, its still not quite right.

Mischance · 12/08/2021 09:58

I can think of better reasons for getting his hand out than not having shaved.

WhiskeyGalore212 · 12/08/2021 09:59

@Timmysdownthewell

Sorry that last one was a response to whisky.

As for questions, I kept everything above the waist with him so never went near his downstairs.

Well then he probably should have taken his leas from that/matched that.

He seems to have (at best) pushed the lines of consent and it's wholly understandable that you feel uncomfortable and thinking about not seeing him again.

Livinghereinallentown · 12/08/2021 10:00

@Sunshineandflipflops

Yeah, the be fair the "are you wet" comment would be a bit yuck for me on a first date.
Definitely. That would put me right off on a first date.
WhiskeyGalore212 · 12/08/2021 10:03

I suppose the best thing that could be said I that he's not cautious, or very aware of consent issues, and not able (or inclined!) to
to read a situation and match a new partner's sexual expectstions/boundaries so ..... wholly understandable why you'd not want to continue seeing him.

EvenMoreFuriousVexation · 12/08/2021 10:05

as far as I'm concerned the only issue is that 2 second window where there was pressure on his hand from me before I had said why I didn't want his hand there

When I read your OP I was going "hmm might just be bad communication" but you're saying you tried to physically resist him for 2 seconds or so BEFORE you said "oh I haven't shaved"? Yeah that's bad. 2 seconds is actually a long time when you're doing sex stuff.

And please don't feel bad for using shaving as an excuse. It's a survival urge - it's safer with an aggressor to make up an excuse that they can't take offense at. But please do start practising saying "no, I'm not up for that" and "I am not going to have sex with you".