Does my friend still have feelings for me secretly?

[Didydani]

Hi all. I'd really appreciate it if you help me work this out. Im not very good at distinguishing genuine friendliness and someone who is still interested in me romatically.

The reason i ask is because i asked him not long ago if he has any feelings for me, in that way (romantically). He said no he does not. I'm not so sure if I believe him, purely because he shows A LOT Of signs of still being into to me, plus I dont know if he just in denial. To be fair to him he's a very private and reserved person when it comes to his emotions. It's like trying to get blood out of a stone lol.

I can give a few examples of his behaviour that makes me wonder.

Hes always there for me no matter what. He knows intuitively if something is wrong and presses me for answers but i know its because he cares about me. He's forever reminding me to take care of myself.

He's nearly always the one to text me first. We talk almost every single day for hours and hours about anything we have a mutual interest in.

I feel like i could be wrong but i feel like he's making the effort to impress me lately. I recently told him I'm going back to college and he's doing the same. He's going to study Japanese and he's moving there within the next two years.

He always goes the extra mile and more if im stuck trying to solve a problem. He'll talk me through it and help as best he can.

He's asked a few times about my love life. Asked me if there's anyone else (why would he do this if he wasn't interested in me in that way still??).

Whenever we've spent time together in person he's always trying to get close to me no matter what. He comes across as very shy in person and we talk a lot in private online, lie I said for hours. I get it though. He's a homebody and probably feels much more comfortable with him being quite shy.

There's a few other things but i dont want to waffle on.

Basically I'm just wondering what others make of this? Does he still have feelings for me? Or am I just looking for signs he still fancies he?

How old are you? 20? Guarantee you’ll have forgotten about him in 2 years. He’s stringing you along - enjoying the attention but with no intention of dating you. If he wanted to date you he’d date you. If he wanted you to have his babies he’d be dating you. If he loved you romantically he’d be dating you. And yet here he is, not dating you. Ask him on a date. I’ll bet he tells you he doesn’t want to ruin the friendship - that means you’ve been friendzoned. Dial it back and go and find someone who is actually proud and happy to date you. You should never have to second guess whether someone is interested in you.

@ Sarahbellham

29, actually. I'll never forget him. Sorry but I disagree about being strug along. He's quite openly said he doesn't do dating. I'm fine with that. He's unconventional and that's okay. I have asked him out - to go on a date and he said he doesn't date. Nothing wrong with that. He is happy and proud of me. I'm not second guessing anything since he said he wants to have children together.

As a pp said, if he wanted to be with you, he would be. The same way, he wants to go to Japan, so he is going. Men are not complicated when it comes to dating, if you have to question/analyse/start threads, the answer is he is just not that into you.

It does feel like you're the back up option. The nice, safe bet, in case he doesn't meet anyone else. Not the girl of his dreams - because if he did have feelings, and knew he was leaving to go abroad, he would have admitted his feelings.

You need to let go of the fairytale in your head, and focus on college and your future, and go out and meet men who will be eager and keen to make you their gf. When he said he'd like to have kids with you, your reaction should have been to laugh. It's such a daft, facetitious statement by a young man - you shouldn't be clinging on to it as a sign of his intentions.

As an example, my current partner had a very good friend, but he never ever fancied her. However, he was single at the time, focused on his career with no time to date, and enjoyed the attention and used her as a surrogate gf for his emotional needs, knowing full well he didn't have romantic feelings. He then met me and within a few weeks had asked me to be his gf. His friend took it very badly (much to his surprise), and it hadn't occurred to him that she might have misinterpreted his friendly interest in her, his effort in being a good friend, jokes about how they should couple up if 40 and still single - as him having feelings for her. To him he cared for her as a friend, so paid her a lot of attention, but that was it. I can't imagine how terrible it must have been for her, thinking he was just shy/reserved etc, and then see him pursue me quite aggressively. Their friendship ended sadly, as it was obvious for her it had always been more and it was too uncomfortable for either of them.

You asked him once, and he told you he doesn't like you that way. Believe him. Don't wait to watch him date and fall in love with someone else - that's torture. Take space from him, focus on your future and go meet new friends, and new men. He will be experiencing a lot of new, amazing things in Japan. You should do the same with your life.

Also to say I met my bf when he was 31, and I was his first serious gf. He too didn't 'do dating' all through his 20s and used to think there was something wrong with him as he had never been in love. I was only his second date off the apps when he decided to try dating properly for the first time. And he said the spark he felt was instant, and he finally realised what it all meant.

But his friend knew him for 10 years and had never seen him date - which is why he just didn't know how to express his feelings for her. Turns out he just hadn't met the right person yet, and sadly it had never been her.

@todaysdilemma

He did want to be with me and still does with to be with me, especially of an evening when we chat almost every night. He definitely wanted to be with me when he came over. He was saying things like your could have me next to you and I won't leave in the messages prior to him coming over. You just don't say things like that if you don't have feelings for someone. I honestly believe he's chosen Japan because of my reaction to us having children.

Your friends situation is entirely different to mine.

Want to be with*

It makes no sense. You want to be with him, you say he wants to be with you and have babies. However he won't date you.

OP, have you ever been in a relationship? I hope this doesn’t come across as offensive, as it’s not intended to be. However, the situation you describe is extremely odd and needlessly complicated. I’m having some difficulty understanding what you hope is going to happen.

You’re into this person. He knows it. If he wanted to be with you, he would be. He does not and is not. It really is that simple.

Telling you he wishes to have children with you, but making no attempts to be in a relationship with you - as he ‘doesn’t date’ - isn’t unconventional. It’s bizarre. How did this come up? Did you not ask any follow up questions? How are these children meant to happen, exactly? When he decides the time is right, he wanders over for a shag? Will you be raising them together (whilst not in a relationship and apparently unable to have a basic straightforward conversation)? You don’t even know if he’s still going to Japan for goodness sake. How, exactly, do you see this playing out?

@Didydani

It's hard to understand how you and he expect to make the transition from friends to being a couple and having children if he won't date and if you both discuss how you feel and never act on it. For most people, if someone they really like likes them back and tells them that they like them back, that is enough to move on to the next stage of trying out a romantic relationship.

His "not dating" line sounds a bit slippery to me, really. He seems to want the emotional intimacy of a relationship with you without the obligations which would come with actually being in a relationship and also without the physical intimacy of being in a relationship. He keeps you dangling by saying he wants to have children with you but he won't actually just spend time with you as a boyfriend.

And how does he imagine you could settle down and have a family together if he won't date? Is it a religious thing? Is it really the case that he can suddenly ask you to marry him and the two of you just transition into married life? Would that work for you?

It doesn't sound like this arrangement does work for you. It's got you yearning for him, yearning for confirmation that he feels romantic about you. It's got you posting for advice on Mumsnet. The reality is that this experience is messing with your head and with your heart. If it wasn't, you wouldn't be posting here. And it's not surprising it's upsetting you because he's sending very conflicting messages. It sounds to me like he wants to keep you on the backburner without actually making a proper commitment to you and also preventing you from moving on with someone else. And it also sounds to me like he would be off like a shot if he found someone he did want to commit to.

Because as PP have said - in the end, if you really like someone who likes you back - and you're both available - you get together. You don't mess a woman around by telling her you want children with her but you won't date her and you don't feel romantic about her. It's ridiculous game-playing; it's unkind; it's confusing for you and it's hurtful.

@bugguritbuggurit

Yes, I have been in relationships before. Why does everyone assume I haven't? Anyway, what I hope is going to happen is that we get to spend a lot of time together before he eventually goes to Japan. What I ultimately hope will happen is that he admits his true feelings for me and change his mind about living in Japan and we get together officially and go on to have a baby, possibly even move in together.

I agree that if he wanted to be with me he would be. I don't know what's holding him back. Yes, I did follow it up and ask him why he doesn't date. He just said he's not into it.

OP, you can either choose to waste more good years on a man who keeps rejecting you and maybe senses your vulnerability and is messing with your head (is he the same friend with ED who told you that you were bad in bed?). If so, you must realise he's a nasty man and would make a terrible life partner anyway.

Or you can focus on doing well at college and getting a good career which will open your horizons to a more emotionally mature man than this one. He seems to like mixed messages, or he thinks you're good for shagging and breeding babies but not for taking on dates or courting romantically in public. Texting and chatting is cheap - real commitment requires time, him adjusting his life to fit you in. What he's doing is offering you enough scraps so you give him all he needs from a relationship while leaving him free to pursue anyone else he meets. He is in complete control and you've given him all the power - this is a very unhealthy dynamic.

You can't and shouldn't have to invest this much energy into convincing someone they should date you. He knows everything about you and has already decided it's not enough for him. This drama will just distract you from being the best you can be for your own life. This is energy that should go into developing yourself.

I didn’t assume, I asked. The reason people are wondering if you’ve had previous relationships is that your comments here seem to to display a lack of understanding of how they generally work.

I actually meant if you had asked follow up questions re the having babies statement. Did he tell you how he envisaged that happening (without dating)? Did you ask? And how does someone tell you they want to have children with you whilst simultaneously not stating that they want a relationship with you? Are you seeing the disconnect?

Have you discussed these ultimate hopes with him? And you say ‘go on to have a baby, possibly even live together’ - so there’s a possibility that you would have a baby, but not live together? How would that work?

You agree that if he wanted to be with you then he would be. He isn’t with you, so therefore that means he doesn’t want to be with you. He’s not holding himself back. Those are his true feelings.

I’m not really sure what else to say here. Stop fixating on this man. This situation makes no sense, is very unhealthy and is not going to pan out the way you want. I hope you take on board some of the excellent advice PP have given and move on. I wish you the very best of luck.

Oh OP he is a diva nightmare
Honestly I would sleep with someone else and tell him you are bored of the spiderwebs in your fanny waiting for him.

Where is the fun, the reckless non child love and orgasms? You need a bank of fun time memories to get through early parenthood intact trust me.

This is too complicated and no fun for you. It really is. Who the fuck does he think he is?

The man I had kids with was/is devoted. Been together nearly two decades, this week after a few Mai Tai's in garden last weekend he declares in a drunken soft fluffy vibe "I used to love too much longer than necessary but I don't need to stress about that anymore because I love you" ......any less you are not his queen.

Be a queen.
Nothing else works.

At least have an orgasm with another human. It helps or at the very least takes your mind off things.

[quote Didydani]@todaysdilemma

He did want to be with me and still does with to be with me, especially of an evening when we chat almost every night. He definitely wanted to be with me when he came over. He was saying things like your could have me next to you and I won't leave in the messages prior to him coming over. You just don't say things like that if you don't have feelings for someone. I honestly believe he's chosen Japan because of my reaction to us having children.

Your friends situation is entirely different to mine.[/quote]
It's not what people say, people can and do say whatever they need to.

It's what they do that counts.

So remove the chat what, in person, has he actually done for you in the past month?

"I agree that if he wanted to be with me he would be. I don't know what's holding him back."

What's holding him back is that he's just not that into you. Perhaps even he's gay and not ready to admit that to you or himself. Probably he likes the emotional side of being able to chat to you all day and night but he's not interested in you as a life partner. Which would be fine if that was enough for you but it isn't.

Overall, he seems to be coming at things backward. For most people - having children together is a much bigger commitment than living together. The comment that you may have children together and then perhaps even live together suggests that neither of you properly understand the reality of having children and how incredibly demanding it is, especially in the early years. It sounds like you both have some kind of Disneyesque vision of parenthood where the children sleep well, eat well, play nicely, behave exactly as you want them to and scarcely impact on your life at all. Nothing could be further from the truth. (Not to mention that no-one can see how children can be possible if he won't even date you).

But in the end, none of his silly elusiveness would matter if it wasn't hurting and confusing you but it clearly is. If this situation were okay for you, you wouldn't be posting for advice here. And you wouldn't be wasting good years dreaming about a man who is refusing to be properly available for you and who will almost certainly be off like a shot when someone he is interested in comes along. Emotionally mature and reliable men don't play silly games like this. You'd be much better off looking elsewhere for a partner than dreaming your life away in the hope that he will finally realise he wants to be with you when he's made it clear he doesn't.

If he wanted to be with you OP he wouldn't be moving to Japan.

It just sounds like he's stringing you along, to be honest. Giving you just enough of what you want to hear and then backing off again.

Don't you deserve more than this?

The reason people are asking whether you’re very young and if you’ve ever had other relationships, OP, is because you don’t seem to recognise the type you have on your hands — most of us came across one at some point in our teens or student years. He is shy and intense, delightful, attentive, a wonderful and affectionate friend, makes enormous declarations about the future, may occasionally snog you or sleep with you, but is always about to emigrate/study abroad/enter a Buddhist monastery.

Despite you both behaving as though his emotional life is a sacred text, deeply private but to be studied endlessly, he is never able to bring himself to just be your boyfriend. There’s been plenty of opportunity, but always something in the way. He’s ‘too shy’, he ‘was hurt in the past’, he ‘needs to get his head together’, ‘he’s afraid of hurting you, because you’re too special for that’.

Basically, he thinks he’s Hamlet, you enjoy the ‘will he or won’t he?’, but he’s actually just an indecisive time waster. Don’t let him waste any more of yours. It’s two years since you declared your feelings. In all that time, you’ve not been in a romantic relationship with one another. It would have happened by now.

@todaysdilemma

OP, you can either choose to waste more good years on a man who keeps rejecting you and maybe senses your vulnerability and is messing with your head (is he the same friend with ED who told you that you were bad in bed?). If so, you must realise he's a nasty man and would make a terrible life partner anyway.

Or you can focus on doing well at college and getting a good career which will open your horizons to a more emotionally mature man than this one. He seems to like mixed messages, or he thinks you're good for shagging and breeding babies but not for taking on dates or courting romantically in public. Texting and chatting is cheap - real commitment requires time, him adjusting his life to fit you in. What he's doing is offering you enough scraps so you give him all he needs from a relationship while leaving him free to pursue anyone else he meets. He is in complete control and you've given him all the power - this is a very unhealthy dynamic.

You can't and shouldn't have to invest this much energy into convincing someone they should date you. He knows everything about you and has already decided it's not enough for him. This drama will just distract you from being the best you can be for your own life. This is energy that should go into developing yourself.

Yes it is the same person and he's not like that all the time. I Don't know where that comment came from tbh.

I am focusing on college, hence why I told him I wasn't ready to start a family just yet. I want to do things one step at a time otherwise before I know it I'll of taken on too much at once and I'll be overwhelmed.

I don't think texting is cheap. It requires just as much time and effort as it does as spending time in person would and it become our main form of communication. However, I have told him I'd like to see him much more often but he's like a shooting star! Rare that you get to him! He's like this with his friends too, so I don't take it personally. He isn't in control of anything. No one controls me and he knows that. What the heck are you on about? I'm not trying to convince him of anything.

@Buggritbuggrit

I didn’t assume, I asked. The reason people are wondering if you’ve had previous relationships is that your comments here seem to to display a lack of understanding of how they generally work.

I actually meant if you had asked follow up questions re the having babies statement. Did he tell you how he envisaged that happening (without dating)? Did you ask? And how does someone tell you they want to have children with you whilst simultaneously not stating that they want a relationship with you? Are you seeing the disconnect?

Have you discussed these ultimate hopes with him? And you say ‘go on to have a baby, possibly even live together’ - so there’s a possibility that you would have a baby, but not live together? How would that work?

You agree that if he wanted to be with you then he would be. He isn’t with you, so therefore that means he doesn’t want to be with you. He’s not holding himself back. Those are his true feelings.

I’m not really sure what else to say here. Stop fixating on this man. This situation makes no sense, is very unhealthy and is not going to pan out the way you want. I hope you take on board some of the excellent advice PP have given and move on. I wish you the very best of luck.

Oh really? I lack of understanding? Well you're mistaken. I understand perfectly well what relationships require.

@frozendaisy

Oh OP he is a diva nightmare Honestly I would sleep with someone else and tell him you are bored of the spiderwebs in your fanny waiting for him.

Where is the fun, the reckless non child love and orgasms? You need a bank of fun time memories to get through early parenthood intact trust me.

This is too complicated and no fun for you. It really is. Who the fuck does he think he is?

The man I had kids with was/is devoted. Been together nearly two decades, this week after a few Mai Tai's in garden last weekend he declares in a drunken soft fluffy vibe "I used to love too much longer than necessary but I don't need to stress about that anymore because I love you" ......any less you are not his queen.

Be a queen.
Nothing else works.

At least have an orgasm with another human. It helps or at the very least takes your mind off things.

He can be a bit of a dive at times but that's a natural part of his personality and I wouldn't have him any other way! Lol. Haha 🤣 there's no cobwebs down there thankyou very much! The thought of sleeping with someone else disgusts me though. I only want him.

That's a lovely thing of him to say. I'm glad to hear you had/have a a happy ending. :)

@Dery

"I agree that if he wanted to be with me he would be. I don't know what's holding him back."

What's holding him back is that he's just not that into you. Perhaps even he's gay and not ready to admit that to you or himself. Probably he likes the emotional side of being able to chat to you all day and night but he's not interested in you as a life partner. Which would be fine if that was enough for you but it isn't.

Overall, he seems to be coming at things backward. For most people - having children together is a much bigger commitment than living together. The comment that you may have children together and then perhaps even live together suggests that neither of you properly understand the reality of having children and how incredibly demanding it is, especially in the early years. It sounds like you both have some kind of Disneyesque vision of parenthood where the children sleep well, eat well, play nicely, behave exactly as you want them to and scarcely impact on your life at all. Nothing could be further from the truth. (Not to mention that no-one can see how children can be possible if he won't even date you).

But in the end, none of his silly elusiveness would matter if it wasn't hurting and confusing you but it clearly is. If this situation were okay for you, you wouldn't be posting for advice here. And you wouldn't be wasting good years dreaming about a man who is refusing to be properly available for you and who will almost certainly be off like a shot when someone he is interested in comes along. Emotionally mature and reliable men don't play silly games like this. You'd be much better off looking elsewhere for a partner than dreaming your life away in the hope that he will finally realise he wants to be with you when he's made it clear he doesn't.

Neither of us understand what it's like to kids!? Wow, thats a BIG assumption you just made there. Is that why I have a 4 year old daughter? And he a cat? (And before you bash him, pets require just as much love and commitment as children do) Both of us understand perfectly well what it takes to raise children.

I think you need to dial down the outrage about ‘assumptions’ — what people are going on is what you’ve said on here, and it all points to a thoroughly silly undergraduate infatuation between a flaky, ‘all mouth and no trousers’ man and a woman who can’t tell the difference between text messages and real life.

And honestly, OP, if you have a four year old daughter, you need to grow up. You should certainly not be contemplating having another real child in your fantasy future with Mr Shooting Star.

Would you be happy for her to be in your position, fixated on someone who’s just not that into her, and planning babies with a man who refuses to date her?

Wake up!

Why are everyone's responses so negative? What is this, shit on my thread day?

Am I the only one seeing a lot of big signs that he still has feelings for me? They're pretty clear to me. For starters, everything I listed in my opening post, then the eagerness to come and see me followed by numerous things said in his messages to me that morning ("you could have me next to you" "have me to yourself for 7 hours" "I won't leave"). He unwittingly revealed a lot there, thunk he got caught up in the moment without realising. So cute though. And of course, the biggest sign.. saying he wants to start a family. This came as a total shock to me since I had no idea he was still secretly feeling this way or thinking this far ahead of about us. But then again, he has always told me that I only know what he wants me to know.