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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I don't trust my own judgement on fighting for this relationship

104 replies

Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 13:41

Been with my partner (is he still?) for 10-ish years. We have three children together aged 5 down to 1. IF we consider that being a god dad can be separate to being a good partner, he is a good dad. Lots of fun with them, very engaged in their development, family-oriented as in he takes them to his family, constantly thinking of them, homeschooling through lockdown, cooking for them (btw he does a deep clean every so often) he just loves them.

We had a great relationship for none of those years. The last year has been awful. He runs his own business and Covid scuppered a lot of his plans and made life very difficult for him. I had a baby at the beginning of lockdown, we also moved house.

So, about a year ago we had an argument. Nothing unforgivable, really not a vicious argument at all, but I think with the business being difficult etc, he was very sensitive. We made up, but actually he didn't. His feelings festered and he kind of ex-communicated me. This is lockdown, I can't see my family, newborn, two other kids, homeschooling etc. It was such a toxic environment. No arguments, just like a Cold War, he was impenetrable. Like stone. He switched off from me completely. he doesn't do anything actively mean, but he's ceased doing anything positive, too, if you see what I mean. he's taken away all of the positives, and I feel their loss, and those positives were why I was with him. There's very little care or concern for me right now, and close to zero affection (though sex is ok, we are doing this again now after nothing for maybe 9 months).

We are not married. Before the birth of our first child I wasn't bothered about this, since then I have been. His own parents remain married, but his dad was in and out, I don't think he has a good model of marriage (my parents are still together through their ups and downs, just life stuff, a normal marriage I expect). I'm very close to my family, too. Now I wonder whether he never really loved me, or was committed, is this why we aren't married actually? Would that have made a difference/ would he have tried harder rather than to let things fester from over a year ago until he felt absolutely nothing for me?

More recently we have had a few heart to hearts and he says he feels numb about me. Doesn't feel any romantic love anymore. He can't help it. Says he doesn't know if someone has changed in him completely and that he can't feel any happiness, or love or good feeling about anything apart from the children. He planned to move out to change the routine, pattern of things, sort out his head, get therapy (individual, not couples), but he couldn't bring himself to in the end, I think. The reasons he gives are the argument we had, he can't really get over what I said, he says he has spoken to other men about it and they say it's a small thing just move on, but he can't. He says that other things have grated on him since then, too and he just feels bad about me.

I think he is depressed honestly. But he is very invested in his business, works around 16 hours a day, has done for many years now. He takes kids to school etc, then to the office, home around midnight, 1 o clock. That was eating into our relationship anyway, but at this juncture, I can see how we can fix things when he is actually proposing more distance. He says he wants to see if things can improve between us, but that he is not getting on well with opening up in therapy (they feel like strangers). He can't talk to me about everything, he needs an impartial person. I also feel like 'oh great, you get to go and get some space from family to repair yourself, IT'S BEEN HARD FOR EVERTYONE'. When I'm a single mum to three kids where is my reprieve? My respite?

I can see he is making little baby steps, but I really feel I am doing more to try to repair our relationship, and I do think 'why, when he doesn't even love me? He drove us over the cliff and didn't even tell me how he felt for a year and I just limped on thinking the business is bad, be supportive'.

I so much want to just say it's over, give myself a rest from trying, find someone who likes me (no matter love!).

On the other hand I think of the kids, they love their dad so much. And, what if he is in a very bad patch, mid life thing, depressed, shouldn't I be more understanding and supportive now.

It just feels like the woman is the one fine with everything and she always has to be strong and what about us though?!

Am I just being a pushover, kind to the point of stupidity. The man says he no longer loves me for Pete's sake. I'm not sure I can keep up romantic feeling for him when it's clearly unrequited.

Good lord, what a mess.

OP posts:
Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 13:43

Sorry, great relationship for nine of those years. Not 'none'. He says this too. Excellent for nine years, excruciating for the last year and he doesn't know it will ever be better again. Neither do I.

OP posts:
Mamamamasaurus · 25/07/2021 13:50

Would he consider talking to his GP?

EvenMoreFuriousVexation · 25/07/2021 13:54

What are his plans for repairing your relationship?

Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 13:55

He recently went to GP for extremely high blood pressure. They are closely monitoring him. He's very fit (gyms and runs a lot). He puts it down to stress, I believe him. Probably stressed about us, too, but work is a huge thing, he employs people and heavy is the head and all that.

he's just miles away, though. I have said to him we'll never fix things if he doesn't spend time with me, as in, how canyon establish positive regard, let alone romantic love for someone you never see or talk to or spend quality time with, and he has been trying, like last night we stayed up with a drink and chatted, chatted again this morning, but then I said let's hug. He got back into bed and he did, but I could feel his muscles weren't relaxed.

He's still holding bad feeling for me because of the argument, but what can I do about that now? We've spoken about it, I've apologised, etc etc, I've continued to show him love and care, so?

Sheesh, I don't know. I feel like I am just hanging around until he works up the confidence to leave. And what the hell is that?

OP posts:
HollowTalk · 25/07/2021 13:58

It sounds as though some time apart would help you both decide whether there's a future. When I thought you did mean "none of those years" I was going to say why bother, but if it was good for that time and bad just for a year, then perhaps some time apart with him still taking the children to school and then seeing them at the weekends would work. It doesn't sound as though he sees them much anyway.

HollowTalk · 25/07/2021 13:59

What was it you said that hurt him so much?

Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 14:00

@EvenMoreFuriousVexation

What are his plans for repairing your relationship?
he's seen 5 or 6 therapists, didn't feel comfy with any of them (I think it is a man thing, lack of experience talking through problems etc). he has spoken to our priest and felt good about that. he has said no to couples therapy because he feels they are things he cannot say in front of me. fair enough, but I think that is something we do need.

he proposed going away to another country for a few months as he has business over there anyway. fine. but I just feel dumped upon. this might sound bad, but remember, we aren't married, so all this support I've given him for the business, emotional, financial as a couple, sacrifices I've made, he could now just leave find a younger prettier version without three kids and marry her! H says he'd never do it, but he could leave me with nothing more than child maintenance. And how many men have said they'd never X, and then turn around and do just that. I think I am a but recentful of that. You know, I was his partner and supportive and pushing him and getting through lockdown with him and noe as quick as a flash I could be out and left with 3 kids. Though I love them of course, it feels like rough justice.

OP posts:
Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 14:03

@HollowTalk

What was it you said that hurt him so much?
it was along to lines of 'oh go away then, we'll be fine without you'. Not exactly that and probably not as bad. I don't want to say as I am aware women from his family are on these boards.
OP posts:
Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 14:04

@HollowTalk

It sounds as though some time apart would help you both decide whether there's a future. When I thought you did mean "none of those years" I was going to say why bother, but if it was good for that time and bad just for a year, then perhaps some time apart with him still taking the children to school and then seeing them at the weekends would work. It doesn't sound as though he sees them much anyway.
New laptop and I'm not used to the Mac, so I'm making awful typos that I wouldn't usually. Sorry.
OP posts:
Fireflygal · 25/07/2021 14:10

If he accepts what you said wasn't that bad then he needs to work on his inner feelings. It sounds like he was triggered and that has lead to him projecting those feelings onto you. Is he in counselling?

Also it's really not realistic to expect to be in love when in the middle of a pandemic plus new baby. This is the time where he needs to dig deep (tbf he pulled back from moving out) and try to focus on the positives. If he is a good Dad then staying as a family is the right thing to do until he has tried every other avenue.

Could there be anyone else that he is talking to?

CityCommuter · 25/07/2021 14:13

@Perfectlyadjusted do you think he's involved or has thoughts of seeing someone else? He sounds extremely detached from you tbh... would it be worth asking a member from his family if they know what's wrong or if he's confided in them?

Fireflygal · 25/07/2021 14:18

it was along to lines of 'oh go away then, we'll be fine without you

This seems like he has abandonment issues which were triggered. He has to work on those issues himself but if he is getting through counsellors, would he read books instead, listen to YouTube?

I don't think distance is the right thing for you. With such a young family he should give it more time. Difficult for you because you are not getting much back BUT try to focus on this being his issue.

When you say his Dad was in/out, does that mean he left the family home frequently? If so can he see that this is history repeating itself?

Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 14:31

About him seeing someone else. I have asked. He says no. He says he thought about exploring new relationships but as lockdown was on, it was impossible. he said he just had thoughts, no follow through, so action, and that he doubts he can have any feelings for anyone right now. At that point we weren't intimate at all. I have to admit I had my own fantasies, I quite like sex so having none of it was not a good experience for me. But whether he is seeing someone more recently, I don't know as much as can we ever know.

His dad left his mum and came back a few times I believe. I don't really know what went on there so I cannot comment. and wouldn't anyway out of respect for his family. But I will say t hat I think he hasn't got many examples by way of couples working things out when things are hard. I dug deep because I'd seen my parents do it, I knew that was what I wanted to do and it could pay dividends. he hasn't;'t seen that. His mum says that she said to him that relationships do get hard, you have to weather the storms. But he just seems unable. I'll be honest, it has impacted the respect I have for him a little. In general I don't feel good about men who up and leave their families, that's cray and judgmental, and not fair, but it's my instinctive feeling. So to hear he was thinking of leaving us (me, but not really the kids I suppose), has not done any good for my feelings about him.

The thing is we had a really good relationship and a happy family before this. I am trying to keep up with the empathy for him, but I feel quite powerfully that he has threatened the break up of our family just as I would;d if it were a third party, you know? I don't know if that sounds strange. Like the one doing the damage to our family is YOU dude, and I don't like him for it.

OP posts:
SimonedeBeauvoirscat · 25/07/2021 14:44

He gets home at 1am on a regular basis after work? What job does he do - does he run a bar or something?! Otherwise that seems rather odd, where is he?! is he deliberately staying out late to avoid family evenings?

Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 14:55

He can see what's happening as history repeating itself. Though I must say his siblings and himself are doing very well and have done academically, in their careers, so he has the narrative that the kids will be ok. I can't comment much on his siblings' personal lives as I don't know that much. Success in work and study and finance does not mean you are psychologically ok, or have a good sense of wellbeing, or that you are well-adjusted in relationships though. Of course he always said to me he would never leave. That promise he looks like he might break.

OP posts:
Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 14:57

@SimonedeBeauvoirscat

He gets home at 1am on a regular basis after work? What job does he do - does he run a bar or something?! Otherwise that seems rather odd, where is he?! is he deliberately staying out late to avoid family evenings?
No, truly he is not. he is home at the weekends (he will often go to the office for maybe 5 hours on a Saturday). he runs a small business, but t is full on and really they need twice the number of staff. They don't have the money for it, so he does most of it. If he gets home at 11 say, which is early, he'll take out his laptop, and he wakes up around 5 every morning to get a jump on the day. he says he is not a workaholic, but he had a v good and well-paid job but followed his dream with this, so he's throwing everything at it (even our family?)
OP posts:
Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 15:08

@Fireflygal

If he accepts what you said wasn't that bad then he needs to work on his inner feelings. It sounds like he was triggered and that has lead to him projecting those feelings onto you. Is he in counselling?

Also it's really not realistic to expect to be in love when in the middle of a pandemic plus new baby. This is the time where he needs to dig deep (tbf he pulled back from moving out) and try to focus on the positives. If he is a good Dad then staying as a family is the right thing to do until he has tried every other avenue.

Could there be anyone else that he is talking to?

He says he didn't realise his feelings would be so impacted at the beginning of all of this. He says he withdrew from me, kind of in a way to show me that hey, we do not need him around. He wanted me to feel that pain of him withdrawing and look, I get that, when we are hurt we want to hurt back and sometimes we do. I believe he regrets that he has worn down his feelings to me to this extent. he say he realises he did this to us, our family, but now he doesn't know that he can fix it. And honestly, there are competing demands, right? His businessman so much to him that if he downed tools and just fixed us, he'd hate himself for wrecking the business.

He says he realises now that you need to stoke your relationship, keep the fire going, he didn't and it's died out for him.

I get so angry when I hear him talking philosophically like this though. A bit like 'Yes, you f-ing stupid man. Do you think I have had butterflies in my tummy for you every day of the last decade?' Flipsake.

I held him in such high esteem. Now, really not so much at all. I'm fairly accomplished, I've worked hard to get to where I am, others have more money and bugger house and whatnot, but I'm doing ok. Nevertheless, he was kind of the head of our family. It has cut along gender lines, but he is that character, you know? I'm way more type B. But now I feel like I don't trust him with our family at all. So I don't know if I'll ever look up to him like that again. That is a huge loss to me.

OP posts:
SimonedeBeauvoirscat · 25/07/2021 15:08

I just don’t see how that is sustainable I’m afraid. It sounds as though he’s putting himself under huge pressure and I don’t see how he can have any time for the kids. Surely he’s benefiting hugely from you being the default parent? And you’re not married - so you’re extremely financially vulnerable. Have you tried talking to him about getting married? What does he say?

Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 15:09

hey, we DO now need him around.

OP posts:
Fireflygal · 25/07/2021 15:09

so he has the narrative that the kids will be ok

But only if he considers having abandonment issues as an acceptable consequence. His children will be harmed by him threatening to leave or actually leaving. I would never advocate separating unless there is abuse.

I wish there was more judgement in society about men who leave young families. I saw it in work, man with good career has 3 kids, breaks up marriage and then in relationship with single colleague 10 years younger. Whilst this might have always happened what has changed is the legal system view of financial responsibility. Men now get to walk away with only CMS payments which present very little in terms of actual contribution. The figure is capped so the really higher earners get away with low contributions.

His rejection of counsellors could be that he doesn't want to hear he might be the issue!

Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 15:13

@SimonedeBeauvoirscat

I just don’t see how that is sustainable I’m afraid. It sounds as though he’s putting himself under huge pressure and I don’t see how he can have any time for the kids. Surely he’s benefiting hugely from you being the default parent? And you’re not married - so you’re extremely financially vulnerable. Have you tried talking to him about getting married? What does he say?
Marriage talk now? Nope not at all. Can't imagine that.

I can throw my mind forward to hypotheticals and say I would not get back into a relationship with him without it. Because we both pushed. Ok, he works the long hours, but I supported with all that I had, and I do the lion share of domestic and family life.

His work life is not sustainable. His work colleague recently fell very ill due to overwork. That scared him, but he hasn't taken his foot off the pedal. Nothing has changed even since the high BP and the GP ordering massive lifestyle changes.

OP posts:
Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 15:16

I'll be honest with you. I come from a family of many women (not my mum) who did leave husbands (abuse etc). I saw heir hardships, so I do have my own passive incomes etc. I'd muddle through financially without him, sure. But I'd do much better if he had the children for a true 50:50 split. That'll never happen though. So though I make an adequate income for my family now, it would stay at this level. I wouldn't be able to grow my own business or expand etc. I'd be where I am.

OP posts:
SimonedeBeauvoirscat · 25/07/2021 15:16

So have you ever discussed marriage? Are you working? Sorry if you’ve already said. I know it’s an MN cliche to fixate on the financial side of things, but if you’re financially vulnerable then he may be thinking that you’ll just put up with however he wants to treat you.

Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 15:20

His problem is more the opposite. Since our argument he's fixated on me not needing him, and that has wounded his ego.

OP posts:
SimonedeBeauvoirscat · 25/07/2021 15:21

Ah I see you’ve just answered. So you have some income of your own, that’s good.

I know you said the relationship was good before you had the row and he pushed you away. I would be asking him whether he felt it was good then too, and if so, how does he propose you can get back to it. Ultimately this change is coming from him so the only person who can change that is him. For your part, I would say that you should think about where the line is for you - what are you willing to put up with? And just keep that very clearly in your mind. Perhaps set yourself a timescale as well: in 6 months’ time you’ll review whether you feel enough progress has been made towards getting back to where you want to be. That kind of thing.