I don't trust my own judgement on fighting for this relationship

[Perfectlyadjusted]

Been with my partner (is he still?) for 10-ish years. We have three children together aged 5 down to 1. IF we consider that being a god dad can be separate to being a good partner, he is a good dad. Lots of fun with them, very engaged in their development, family-oriented as in he takes them to his family, constantly thinking of them, homeschooling through lockdown, cooking for them (btw he does a deep clean every so often) he just loves them.

We had a great relationship for none of those years. The last year has been awful. He runs his own business and Covid scuppered a lot of his plans and made life very difficult for him. I had a baby at the beginning of lockdown, we also moved house.

So, about a year ago we had an argument. Nothing unforgivable, really not a vicious argument at all, but I think with the business being difficult etc, he was very sensitive. We made up, but actually he didn't. His feelings festered and he kind of ex-communicated me. This is lockdown, I can't see my family, newborn, two other kids, homeschooling etc. It was such a toxic environment. No arguments, just like a Cold War, he was impenetrable. Like stone. He switched off from me completely. he doesn't do anything actively mean, but he's ceased doing anything positive, too, if you see what I mean. he's taken away all of the positives, and I feel their loss, and those positives were why I was with him. There's very little care or concern for me right now, and close to zero affection (though sex is ok, we are doing this again now after nothing for maybe 9 months).

We are not married. Before the birth of our first child I wasn't bothered about this, since then I have been. His own parents remain married, but his dad was in and out, I don't think he has a good model of marriage (my parents are still together through their ups and downs, just life stuff, a normal marriage I expect). I'm very close to my family, too. Now I wonder whether he never really loved me, or was committed, is this why we aren't married actually? Would that have made a difference/ would he have tried harder rather than to let things fester from over a year ago until he felt absolutely nothing for me?

More recently we have had a few heart to hearts and he says he feels numb about me. Doesn't feel any romantic love anymore. He can't help it. Says he doesn't know if someone has changed in him completely and that he can't feel any happiness, or love or good feeling about anything apart from the children. He planned to move out to change the routine, pattern of things, sort out his head, get therapy (individual, not couples), but he couldn't bring himself to in the end, I think. The reasons he gives are the argument we had, he can't really get over what I said, he says he has spoken to other men about it and they say it's a small thing just move on, but he can't. He says that other things have grated on him since then, too and he just feels bad about me.

I think he is depressed honestly. But he is very invested in his business, works around 16 hours a day, has done for many years now. He takes kids to school etc, then to the office, home around midnight, 1 o clock. That was eating into our relationship anyway, but at this juncture, I can see how we can fix things when he is actually proposing more distance. He says he wants to see if things can improve between us, but that he is not getting on well with opening up in therapy (they feel like strangers). He can't talk to me about everything, he needs an impartial person. I also feel like 'oh great, you get to go and get some space from family to repair yourself, IT'S BEEN HARD FOR EVERTYONE'. When I'm a single mum to three kids where is my reprieve? My respite?

I can see he is making little baby steps, but I really feel I am doing more to try to repair our relationship, and I do think 'why, when he doesn't even love me? He drove us over the cliff and didn't even tell me how he felt for a year and I just limped on thinking the business is bad, be supportive'.

I so much want to just say it's over, give myself a rest from trying, find someone who likes me (no matter love!).

On the other hand I think of the kids, they love their dad so much. And, what if he is in a very bad patch, mid life thing, depressed, shouldn't I be more understanding and supportive now.

It just feels like the woman is the one fine with everything and she always has to be strong and what about us though?!

Am I just being a pushover, kind to the point of stupidity. The man says he no longer loves me for Pete's sake. I'm not sure I can keep up romantic feeling for him when it's clearly unrequited.

Good lord, what a mess.

If he feels it's impossible to open up to a therapist he could try some self help. This article will help him (and you!) understand how his unsettled early life experiences has impacted him as an adult. It's a start.

Working 16 hours a day but still makes time for the gym and runs? Suggests he goes to another country for a few months? Something feels off to me

@SorryWoman

Working 16 hours a day but still makes time for the gym and runs? Suggests he goes to another country for a few months? Something feels off to me

^^ this..

Either he is spectacularly immature/insecure, or there’s someone else on his mind and you’re copping the blame.

@RiaOverTheRainbow

You may well have already done this but would it help to point out the difference between 'need' and 'want'? It's true, you and the DC would cope if he left, but you'd all much prefer if he stayed so long as he stops acting like an idiot?

yes the irony is, as he did withdraw I was faced with doing lots more alone. I just had a new baby, at times I could have done with help, but I just ploughed on. so he forced me to reduce my need, if you see what I mean, even as he was demonstrating that I did. And 18 months I would never have thought of prepping myself to be a single mum, now I really am and I think I would cope.

As he says, he didn't see these outcomes when he changed his approach to me. But that's what's happened..

@Marmitemarinaded

What did you say during the vicious argument that he can’t get over?

It really wasn't even vicious. And we made up. Or so I thought.

He goes to the gym and runs to help with his mental health. Always has. says it helps him to think straight and get nervous tension from his body. But I have thought that he has been selfish with that in the past. Like, what mum gets to work out for up to 2 hours a day? During lockdown too?

I have had real concerns about his fidelity, because of my insecurities, how he has been behaving, but I'm really not sure that makes much difference given where we are. And he says no. he would have lots of opportunity though, given the hours he is out of the house.

@Sarahlou63

If he feels it's impossible to open up to a therapist he could try some self help. This article will help him (and you!) understand how his unsettled early life experiences has impacted him as an adult. It's a start.

Thank you!

Stop messing about and leave him.

Hes being ridiculous. And cruel.

Why on earth are you indulging this unpleasant manchild? Abandonment issues etc my arse. He has used a very minor argument to punish you now for over a year - A YEAR. What sort of person does that? He is using this now to keep you on edge and not ask for anything from him - I notice he still uses you for sex when it suits him so he's not that appalled by you.

I think it's very telling that you're not married but have three children and this bothers you. This is another power imbalance. Your whole life revolves around his needs and wants, he gets to work long hours and indulge his two-hour runs and you have to dance attendance hoping he might be kind to you again. Just fuck him off. You will find someone who loves you and can have an argument and make up like a normal person. I would just tell him that his behaviour for the last year has caused you not to love him anymore and that you want to separate but you are happy to co-parent amicably so he doesn't need to worry about seeing the children. He won't see them 50% of course and he won't have the time due to his very important work and two-hour runs.

Honestly, the shite women puts up with never ceases to amaze me. Don't sacrifice yourself to this self-absorbed numpty. You're better than this, just move on.

Oh, and I had a crappy childhood. I don't use it to punish my husband.

It has been a hard year or so. We had many good years beforehand, and we created three children and built a family together in that time.

Generally, I continue with something if I can see a future, I don't really continue with anything because of what it's been like in the past, because that does not necessarily influence the future.

So I'm glad of the times that we spent before the last year. The last year has been terrible (save the birth of our last child). I'm totally lost on whether there is hope for our future.

I really need to be working this out with him. But like I say, he is so distant. It's not that he's done something very wrong and he still loves me. He says he does not love me. That is very demotivating. I'm not sure whether he doesn't and won't again (in which case I'd leave) or whether that feeling of lack of love for me is underpinned by factors he can work out, either by therapy, or when business picks up again and he's not so stressed about that, or even after the midlife crisis ends!

I just don't know.

I would ask him to go on the long work trip as a trial separation, and while he's away, start planning your split.

The way he's treating you is awful - cruel and disrespectful. Even if he came to you saying he was sorry and he loves you, how could you trust that this wouldn't happen again they next time you say the wrong thing?

Exactly

OP, I had an argument last year too, we sold the house and are now finished. The thing is during the argument, we both said hurtful things, but I didn't say anything I regret, and would say them again, as they were true. My former partner became ice cold, and we both knew it was over, not even worth trying to save. If your partner can not move on and has become cold, I would just reflect this back to him to see how he likes it. Detach, disengage, distance yourself, don't even cook for him.

If he does go on the long work trip, make sure you buy in as much help as you can with his money while you can. The odds of you staying together if he fucks off as a single guy are slim. I'm sorry.

This all sounds symptomatic of something else. Unless you’re leaving out some major issue, what you said in one argument a year ago isn’t enough to have caused this level of withdrawal. Could work and the pandemic and the stress of being a small business owner during such a bad time have been the trigger for something more deep seated? My own father had a nervous breakdown aged 45 that was ostensibly about work but actually was to do with his on childhood and a lot of issues he had been kicking down the road for 30 years by doing “typically masculine” things like working hard at a difficult job and becoming successful. When the bottom fell out of that work life it fell out of everything and he lost the plot. Only hardcore therapy helped him and my parents marriage survived (but only just!) I’m sad to say too that as it was all unravelling and my mum kept saying he needed help he just blocked her out. It was only once he was a gibbering wreck that he no longer had any choice but to take the psychiatric help. That was the nuclear option and not recommended. But if he won’t help himself now or help you to help repair things I don’t know what choice you have but to wait for the Big Bang.

It’s unbelievably shit. I’m so sorry.

Before this argument, he had said very little to me about anything awry with our relationship, about anything he'd like me to change or improve, even when I asked. I am the kind of person to raise the issue for it to be resolved as soon as it becomes apparent. he is not.

So more recently he has said that some other things just grew in irritation since the argument. They are things like sometimes I give the kids paltry meals (like egg, and beans and toast for lunch) which he thinks is not good (he cooks fairly often at the weekend for example, and it's always well-seasoned chicken and rice and corn on the cob). The thing is during lockdown I was doing three meals a day. Lunch was often thrown together, I'm human and had a newborn. He also said he feels really stressed at the moment and so the state of the house got to him and couldn't relax at home (the house is not always 'tidy', it's not dirty, but it'snot always tidy). We have three kids under 7, the last is an active one year old and the another is a 3 year old who likest o climb and make her own drinks. I probably sweep 4 times a day. Seriously! And I cut back on the cleaner because of money issues. He also said he'd like to see better meals in the fridge when he comes home from work I DO get these criticisms, but I am now back to work from mat leave ,my mat leave was crap with all the homeschooling and a newborn, and actually I cook each day, he might not like what I've cooked (we are from two different cultures with very different cuisine), but I'm actually doing lot more than many mums. And I said to him I could always do more and follow you down the path of high blood pressure and no sleep, but do the kids need two dead parents within a decade?

So, he has mentioned these things They sound quite bad as I have written them here, but in essence he was saying he feels his life has been shit since lockdown, and I guess I wasn't really helping with any creature comforts, and that wore on him.

That's really all of the feedback about other things I have had. But I think these things are very cultural. When we met at 29 he wasn't looking for that kind of woman. Maybe now he is and I'm not her. Before I spend all that time cooking and tidying and cleaning I am instead hugging my kids, teaching them to read, at the park with them, baking cakes with them. Since the chats I had started tidying a bit more and cooking a little more, and he says he appreciates it, sometimes I get a genuine smile. But I cant see a sea change in me. I just prioritise other things....

What a shit. You had a newborn, lockdown, homeschooling, and HE'S upset because your meals aren't good enough? And the house is a little messy?

And instead of losing your rag with him you stepped up the Suzy Homemaker routine. Did he want you to greet him at the door dressed only in Saran Wrap holding his slippers and pipe?

He's milking this for all it's worth OP. He knows you're in a shit financial situation because you're not married. You can do the "pick me" dance, lose your self worth, and six months down the road he still won't be sure of what he feels. Or you can keep your dignity and tell him to go away until he grows up. Navel gazing at its finest. Ugh.

I did tell him that finding a woman to just cook and clean were commonplace, I'm sure he could find several just walking down our local high street.

But. I. Am. Not. She.

I cooked and tidied a bit more because I'm not impervious to feedback and I'm not beyond improvement, and honestly if it is something he needs it's not hard for me to do, but I'm not shaking it all up for him.

It's not the life I want. So I won't be doing that.

He sounds like a selfish shit. Sorry.

Hi @Perfectlyadjusted

What an absolutely awful time you’ve been having, I’m so sorry. I don’t know what the right thing to say here but I’m going to give it a try.

Like you I’m the kind of person to dig in deep, work on things and try harder when necessary….I used to see these as great traits to have. They are certainly the traits I would want in a partner or a good friend, however as it so happens these very traits have not worked out to be brilliant things for ME at all. These traits have meant that I have hung on to things far longer than I should have, meant I have forgiven things I shouldn’t, and generally seen me give up huge parts of myself, or things I want in order to sacrifice for the greater good. The problem with these traits is that they only serve you well when the other person, the one you a sacrificing for is doing the same for you, or if not at the very least willing to do for you what you do for them, if they are not you are sacrificing yourself and your wants and needs for nothing because the other person will just take and take and take some more until it’s YOU who breaks and says enough!

In short he’s still around (yet not invested or emotionally available) right now purely because it’s suits him, not because it suits you! As long as your there he gets childcare, a home to come back to, a warm bed and a warm home etc and just as soon as it suits him he gets to shut the door on all that and piss off to his business, the gym or whatever else it is he gets up to (and yes I am inferring he’s been/is being unfaithful because from what you’ve described of him it sounds very much like it) why would he give that up? He’s not stupid, he knows that by being honest and actually leaving/separating changes the status quo (which is currently working to his convenience) and it also means he actually has to make the break, be the bad guy…the instigator in ending the relationship and as you say break up/leave his family…..he obviously doesn’t want to do this, and doesn’t want to be that person….even though it’s exactly what does want to do…..he just hasn’t got the balls to do it that’s all. All the while you get less and less from him and for a while try harder and harder to reach him and bring him back until finally you have had enough and find you have the balls that he’s doesn’t and end it yourself!!!

This is the road he’s pushing you down, whether he means to do it or not!

Look out for you, for yourself and put yourself first….your going to need it!

Op I am in practically this exact situation. It's a pile of shit. I went through all the emotions, I was devastated, then I was angry and now I'm indifferent. I too had a newborn and I will never ever forgive him for the shit he put me through when I needed him the most. I don't know if we'll survive but I'm not sure I care anymore. I'm just waiting for something major to happen now I think. I've been building up my life and support network away from him. He's slowly being more engaging but I'm not sure that he's pushed me too far already so I feel more in control now and it will be my choice not his when the crunch comes. I'm sorry you're going through this. It's truly soul destroying. Do what's best for you. Sending you lots of solidarity and hugs. The loneliest place in the world is being lonely in a relationship.

You may be right.

We spoke again this morning. He says he thinks we are incompatible. This is largely because he feels numb and he can't do things to show me love, or shore up the relationship, the kind of deep dig things like actively demonstrate care and affection, like suggesting we spend quality time, having a weekend away. He says his feelings towards me changed when he stopped doing these things, but now that they have, it feels forced to do them now. He says he feels very low and he can't seem to shake it. He only feels any happiness at all around the children, no other arena in his life. He does not see himself in another relationship any time soon, he says he thinks he sucks at relationships.

This has been, I think, the first true test of our relationship. It was always going to happen because tests MUST come in any long term relationship. He's just folded. He's not strong enough. He cannot do it.

He looked like he would cry when we spoke, which is quite a big deal because I've only seen him cry once at the death of a family member, he's not that kind of man. He looked broken, honestly. He sys he is very unhappy. I asked whether I am part of that, and he said yes. Things have just changed between is and he can't see a way out.

I don't think he has tried enough, tried to spend time with me, to create good times, to right any wrongs, to forgive me. he says what I said shows a side of my character he can't get on with. The thing is I said that in response to something truly awful he said to me, it was about one of our children and I can't imagine any mother would feel ok hearing a father say that. So, the context is important, I didn't say it as a result of him leaving the toilet seat up. This has been lockdown, we needed to put effort in. He admits he hasn't and feels he can't.

He has doubts he is up to it.

He needs help that I can't give.

I agree he seems selfish. He is not showing very attractive traits. It doesn't motivate me to keep trying.

The man he was 18 months ago - tremendous. The man he is today - incorrigible.

I think he is a depressed man. But, how he feels for me might be aside to this. Influenced by it, yes, but also maybe he would feel this way anyway.

I just don't know. Bit I'm losing this fight and feeling more and more accepting about throwing in the towel.

@alwaysout

Op I am in practically this exact situation. It's a pile of shit. I went through all the emotions, I was devastated, then I was angry and now I'm indifferent. I too had a newborn and I will never ever forgive him for the shit he put me through when I needed him the most. I don't know if we'll survive but I'm not sure I care anymore. I'm just waiting for something major to happen now I think. I've been building up my life and support network away from him. He's slowly being more engaging but I'm not sure that he's pushed me too far already so I feel more in control now and it will be my choice not his when the crunch comes. I'm sorry you're going through this. It's truly soul destroying. Do what's best for you. Sending you lots of solidarity and hugs. The loneliest place in the world is being lonely in a relationship.

Thank you for this