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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I don't trust my own judgement on fighting for this relationship

104 replies

Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 13:41

Been with my partner (is he still?) for 10-ish years. We have three children together aged 5 down to 1. IF we consider that being a god dad can be separate to being a good partner, he is a good dad. Lots of fun with them, very engaged in their development, family-oriented as in he takes them to his family, constantly thinking of them, homeschooling through lockdown, cooking for them (btw he does a deep clean every so often) he just loves them.

We had a great relationship for none of those years. The last year has been awful. He runs his own business and Covid scuppered a lot of his plans and made life very difficult for him. I had a baby at the beginning of lockdown, we also moved house.

So, about a year ago we had an argument. Nothing unforgivable, really not a vicious argument at all, but I think with the business being difficult etc, he was very sensitive. We made up, but actually he didn't. His feelings festered and he kind of ex-communicated me. This is lockdown, I can't see my family, newborn, two other kids, homeschooling etc. It was such a toxic environment. No arguments, just like a Cold War, he was impenetrable. Like stone. He switched off from me completely. he doesn't do anything actively mean, but he's ceased doing anything positive, too, if you see what I mean. he's taken away all of the positives, and I feel their loss, and those positives were why I was with him. There's very little care or concern for me right now, and close to zero affection (though sex is ok, we are doing this again now after nothing for maybe 9 months).

We are not married. Before the birth of our first child I wasn't bothered about this, since then I have been. His own parents remain married, but his dad was in and out, I don't think he has a good model of marriage (my parents are still together through their ups and downs, just life stuff, a normal marriage I expect). I'm very close to my family, too. Now I wonder whether he never really loved me, or was committed, is this why we aren't married actually? Would that have made a difference/ would he have tried harder rather than to let things fester from over a year ago until he felt absolutely nothing for me?

More recently we have had a few heart to hearts and he says he feels numb about me. Doesn't feel any romantic love anymore. He can't help it. Says he doesn't know if someone has changed in him completely and that he can't feel any happiness, or love or good feeling about anything apart from the children. He planned to move out to change the routine, pattern of things, sort out his head, get therapy (individual, not couples), but he couldn't bring himself to in the end, I think. The reasons he gives are the argument we had, he can't really get over what I said, he says he has spoken to other men about it and they say it's a small thing just move on, but he can't. He says that other things have grated on him since then, too and he just feels bad about me.

I think he is depressed honestly. But he is very invested in his business, works around 16 hours a day, has done for many years now. He takes kids to school etc, then to the office, home around midnight, 1 o clock. That was eating into our relationship anyway, but at this juncture, I can see how we can fix things when he is actually proposing more distance. He says he wants to see if things can improve between us, but that he is not getting on well with opening up in therapy (they feel like strangers). He can't talk to me about everything, he needs an impartial person. I also feel like 'oh great, you get to go and get some space from family to repair yourself, IT'S BEEN HARD FOR EVERTYONE'. When I'm a single mum to three kids where is my reprieve? My respite?

I can see he is making little baby steps, but I really feel I am doing more to try to repair our relationship, and I do think 'why, when he doesn't even love me? He drove us over the cliff and didn't even tell me how he felt for a year and I just limped on thinking the business is bad, be supportive'.

I so much want to just say it's over, give myself a rest from trying, find someone who likes me (no matter love!).

On the other hand I think of the kids, they love their dad so much. And, what if he is in a very bad patch, mid life thing, depressed, shouldn't I be more understanding and supportive now.

It just feels like the woman is the one fine with everything and she always has to be strong and what about us though?!

Am I just being a pushover, kind to the point of stupidity. The man says he no longer loves me for Pete's sake. I'm not sure I can keep up romantic feeling for him when it's clearly unrequited.

Good lord, what a mess.

OP posts:
SimonedeBeauvoirscat · 25/07/2021 15:22

Tell him you want to get married then ?

Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 15:27

@SimonedeBeauvoirscat

Ah I see you’ve just answered. So you have some income of your own, that’s good.

I know you said the relationship was good before you had the row and he pushed you away. I would be asking him whether he felt it was good then too, and if so, how does he propose you can get back to it. Ultimately this change is coming from him so the only person who can change that is him. For your part, I would say that you should think about where the line is for you - what are you willing to put up with? And just keep that very clearly in your mind. Perhaps set yourself a timescale as well: in 6 months’ time you’ll review whether you feel enough progress has been made towards getting back to where you want to be. That kind of thing.

He says just that - it was excellent the first 9 years. This is what he says. I'm more whimsical. I've felt lower and lower down the list since the business ramped up tbh. But as I say, I dug in deeper.

I think I do need a deadline to this, just doing it with no end in sight is so crushing I can't go on this way. I've changed the way I spend, I've started making more decisions alone, I'm shaping the kids out of school activities according to what I really can support taxi-ing around given I'm now doing more hours at work. I'm basically prepping for single mum life. I'll give myself a deadline. if he throws in the towel before then, then he just does.

OP posts:
Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 15:29

@SimonedeBeauvoirscat

Tell him you want to get married then ?
My dear, I really don't right now. I'm not thinking about that at all. I wouldn't want to marry the man that he has been to me for the past year. I know he's capable of year long cold shoulder now. That is not something I can live with hanging overly head. He needs that therapy. Or he needs something to exorcise whatever the hell is going on.
OP posts:
SimonedeBeauvoirscat · 25/07/2021 15:32

Sorry, I’m confused. It wasn’t clear to me whether you’re seeking to keep the relationship together or whether you’re processing the likelihood/desire to break up. Your most recent post sounds as though it’s the latter so I’ll leave you to it as it doesn’t sound like there’s much I can say which is helpful.

Fireflygal · 25/07/2021 15:34

Give it at least until your youngest is 2 years old.

What a foolish man, if he's prepared to throw away a family and I despair at the emotional immaturity of many men. They can't seem to process emotions that might expose vulnerability or make them accountable.

Arrivederla · 25/07/2021 15:35

That has wounded his ego

Sorry - I would have limited patience with this.

Life must be very hard for him working such long hours, but this is a situation that he has created. I was married to someone like this, also ran his own business and everyone suffered...mostly me and the dc though, tbh.

I don't think it's possible to live like this indefinitely; it's incredibly damaging mentally, physically and emotionally. He needs to adjust his work/life balance and wake up to the damage he is doing to his family (and himself).

CorianderBee · 25/07/2021 15:35

I think it's awful that he's spent a year stewing over you saying you could live without him, but he's said that he's thought about leaving you and getting another woman and you're expected to be OK with that.

He sounds selfish.

Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 15:36

@SimonedeBeauvoirscat

Sorry, I’m confused. It wasn’t clear to me whether you’re seeking to keep the relationship together or whether you’re processing the likelihood/desire to break up. Your most recent post sounds as though it’s the latter so I’ll leave you to it as it doesn’t sound like there’s much I can say which is helpful.
That's the point, it's both. I'm trying, but I'm not sure whether I'm doing the right thing in trying. I'm certainly not trying and pretending that it will all be ok. I'm preparing myself that it won't be.
OP posts:
Arrivederla · 25/07/2021 15:37

@Fireflygal

Give it at least until your youngest is 2 years old.

What a foolish man, if he's prepared to throw away a family and I despair at the emotional immaturity of many men. They can't seem to process emotions that might expose vulnerability or make them accountable.

This.
Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 15:41

@Fireflygal

Give it at least until your youngest is 2 years old.

What a foolish man, if he's prepared to throw away a family and I despair at the emotional immaturity of many men. They can't seem to process emotions that might expose vulnerability or make them accountable.

I have thought about this a lot. he says that when I said that to him, he felt physically sick like he might vomit, and he's knees went weak. I just think he must be massively insecure to have such a visceral reaction. It make sense that he would then try to avoid ever being in that situation again, so he chose to detach from me. Other people, those with more emotional strength and agility, would have come to me, even hurting as he did, and said 'you hurt me. I'm hurt' and given me access to help repair that. That's how relationships get stronger actually. What he said to me was actually worse, to be honest. I won't say what that was, but I went to him and allowed him the opportunity to repair it. I feel his problems are beyond me, or at least that he has put them beyond my reach. It's like, you can be vulnerable. You almost have to be in relationships to get the most out of them. To love to your fullest. And I think I did pretty ok if it took a decade for me to really hurt him! You know?
OP posts:
robotcollision · 25/07/2021 15:46

Honestly, I think you need to properly revisit that argument. I would sit down, with him, eye contact, and say: what I said is not true, it never has been and it certainly isn' you and respect you and I have full faith that we can get through this.

It's been an incredibly stressful year: Covid, the impact of it on the business, a newborn baby, house move. I don't think you can accurately and fairly judge the quality of your marriage during such testing times.

Tell him you all really need him as a family and that you personally need him. Tell him it's shocked you that something you said meanly and pettily in anger has had such a huge impact on him and that as well as apologising profoundly for the hurt it caused him you are willing to talk through why it hit him so hard, why it felt so true to him when it actually wasn't.

You can't make him want to do the necessary work to recover from this (because clearly, hurtful as it was, there is something behind it that triggers a deeper insecurity in him) but you can prove to him that he is wholly worth your while and you refuse to judge your relationship with him on the basis of the last horrendous year when you have such long term proof of it being a strong one.

robotcollision · 25/07/2021 15:47

Sorry I said marriage and you're not married - I meant relationship.

Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 15:52

Believe me, I've done that. Many many times. We've had heart to hearts and then amazing lovemaking afterwards. Then within a few days he's back to stone and I'm trying to chip chip chip again....

OP posts:
Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 15:56

I'm aware that if I do leave now because it is sometimes intolerable for me, I am just crystallising his insecurity. That's partly what makes me stay. ABD the impact on the children who adore him and with whom he has a close knit loving relationship.

OP posts:
Maybeitstime2021 · 25/07/2021 16:05

It sounds like your kids only see him 1.5 days a week?

Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 16:07

@CorianderBee

I think it's awful that he's spent a year stewing over you saying you could live without him, but he's said that he's thought about leaving you and getting another woman and you're expected to be OK with that.

He sounds selfish.

Yes, the thing is, in all this talking we have been doing I don't think I can be fully open about my feelings now. Because I have no idea the impact of my words or the consequence to my life, relationship or family. So I'm hardly saying to him what I'm saying to you all on here. Could you imagine? I'm not exactly silenced, but I'm also keeping schtum in a way.

Like a say, a mess.

OP posts:
Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 16:09

@Maybeitstime2021

It sounds like your kids only see him 1.5 days a week?
6am to 9am each morning. Most of the weekends. But he will take work trips up to 3 weeks. hHe is now thinking about a long trip fo a few months to give us some space.
OP posts:
Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 16:10

(though yes he might work normal hours on the weekend if work demands, he never thinks twice, he knows I'll have them). My life has been shaped by his work life, for sure...

OP posts:
heyday · 25/07/2021 16:12

It sounds like he is so terrified of you leaving him that he has emotionally shut down. There is every chance that he is reliving the pain and fear he felt when his father left the family home...possibly on more than one occasion. It sounds as if he loves his children dearly and it desperate not to lose them from his life. I guess all that on top of the other stress you have faced over the past year has tipped him over the edge. As he seemed to do well speaking with his priest is that something he could do again? I really don't know how you can resolve this but I truly hope that you can. I have witnessed many of my friends going to the very brink of separating but somehow they persevered and now, years later they are reaping the rewards. I hope that your family and relationship can get through this very difficult time. I hope he can sort out his issues and work commitments so he can become a better father and partner.

LostIntrovert · 25/07/2021 16:14

As someone who has been on the receiving end of the 'we don't need you, I'll be better off alone' variety of comments, which were then followed up with them staying and expecting everything to carry on as normal, I can tell you it's a headfuck.

What he is doing is shielding himself from further hurt and the day you tell him you don't want him there any more.

What you are doing is minimising how much this has hurt him and expecting him to make it better.

He's told you how much your comment hurt him and your reaction is to assume it has 'triggered' something in him rather than accept that you are the cause.

I don't know what the answer is because we haven't found one either. But I've been expected to get 'help' too because apparently it's my response not their behaviour that's the problem and if I really want it to work I'll 'try'. The therapist is bemused by this since I'm not the one who was threatening to end the relationship and I can't get a straight answer as to why they said that in the first place.

Perfectlyadjusted · 25/07/2021 16:16

Thanks for your message. Thanks for all of your messages. I am reading and they are helping me.

OP posts:
RiaOverTheRainbow · 25/07/2021 16:45

You may well have already done this but would it help to point out the difference between 'need' and 'want'? It's true, you and the DC would cope if he left, but you'd all much prefer if he stayed so long as he stops acting like an idiot?

Fireflygal · 25/07/2021 16:47

@LostIntrovert, couples can say harsh things to each other at times as what impacts and triggers you would not necessarily impact or trigger someone else. I wouldn't be as bothered by being told by my partner that they didn't need me.

The sharp visceral reactions that we get are often a result of childhood programming which will be unique. If a offending partner makes sincere attempts to apologise then the relationship can be stronger BUT it requires the upset partner to be vulnerable and willing to heal. The op hasn't repeated the statement because she now realises how deeply this impacts him. If he moves on to another woman, isn't the risk of this happening again high?

He now needs to do the work but seems unwilling to heal and it is a choice. He seems to prefer to stay wounded and punish the Op. He is also prepared to blow up the lives of their very young children.

He needs to explore why he is so invested in "needing to be needed". I bet I can guess...it secures Op to him and he doesn't have to feel vulnerable.

The op has attempted to apologise, she didn't carry on as normal and has taken ownership. That's all she can do.

Forgiveness has to come into this and it is his choice to move on or continue to hold a grudge.

layladomino · 25/07/2021 16:51

So a year ago you had an arguament, you BOTH said unkind things (his slightly worse than yours) but he's spent a year punishing you for what you said? Intentionally to start with then it's become habit.

There are no signs this is going to get better. You have nothing to feel guilty for if you decide to split as it's all on him and his behaviour. I think you have to accept there's no other way, as it sounds soul destroying as it is.

Please don't let him paint himself as the victim here. The fault of this is not one sentence you said 12 months ago - it's his poor behaviour over the past year, despite many attempts by you to put things right. Plus putting his job before you and his children for a number of years. You will be much happier without.

Marmitemarinaded · 25/07/2021 16:53

What did you say during the vicious argument that he can’t get over?

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