If you have been married for over twenty-five years...

[Fishkettlesgalore]

...what do you think when you meet couples who have been married for the same amount of time or longer?

I used to be terribly admiring of them, but now I am beginning to think that one or both of them must have made quite significant compromises.

Am I being unnecessarily negative about this? I could be because my own marriage, whilst not awful, is far from great atm, but this could be pandemic-fatigue talking.

@DinosaurDiana

My PIL were married 60 years. You might think how nice that is, but I know how she was treated all that time. I look at long marriages and wonder if one of them hasn’t had the balls to leave and are miserable, or if they’re actually happy.

This is what i also wonder. I usually assume they codependent and too affraid to make a change. Like that’s just what you’re supposed to do. I’ve always viewed all relationships like this, no matter hiw long they have been together. Even when i was young.

@CarnageAtTheSummerFete I agree that you both have to be ready for change. Your life circumstances will change dramatically and really you are unlikely to be the same people you were 25+ years ago.

My Mum and Dad - happily married for 60 years next year- just say that it has been important to change together. I've watched them cope with and adjust to some big changes.

Your love for your children has to be similarly flexible-they certainly change over 25 years- so we are built to cope.

I think a 25 year marriage will change and evolve over that time, work, kids, extended family, location, health, finances, so so many variables. In most cases it just couldn't be like it was at the start?

As @deadflowers says, sex can be a good (but not only) barometer of a very long term relationship. If you are enjoying having sex and orgasms together then its a good sign, I am :)

My Dsis is in a sexless marriage (not by choice of her DH). They get along ok, but each does their own thing. There are financial issues that prevent them living apart.

Things change over 25 years, some for the better, some for that worse.

Me and hubby are no longer having sex. We haven’t spoke about it, and he’s never made a move to do it.
The last time we did it he smelt of sweat and red wine. Yuk.
But now we’re like two people living in a house together, and I wish he’d move out ! I agree that it’s sex that keeps you together, or pushes you apart.

@Fishkettlesgalore I really don’t spend very much time thinking about the inner workings of any other couples relationship - I think I can always see some positives but it’s like looking at the face of a wristwatch - it looks very simple on the outside but I wouldn’t pretend to know what goes on underneath. In a way I like that our relationship is a big mystery - in the past few years I have come to understand just how complex and contradictory or trusting is - for every positive thing I think I can say about our relationship I can almost immediately think of something that contradicts it. We have both made sacrifices and compromised. I did try looking for a book or research into how very long term relationships work - I didn’t find anything at all. I do have access and do read research papers and I did find someone’s PhD on the subject. I’d say that the duration of a relationship isn’t really a measure of anything - to me, most of the time it doesn’t mean anything that we’ve been together a long time - the main thing I value is that we both work at it and believe in the power of being on this relationship - I think my life has been far better overall for being in it and I think that is why we both have and continue to compromise - in the long run I think it’s worth it. We started going out with each other when we were both 12 - we were in the same sets at high school - revised for O-levels and A-levels together, went to universities a bike ride away from each other, moved in and lived together for 5 years before marrying and had 2 kids - we have both really enjoyed being parents and I have certainly traded off success in my career to spend more time with my kids… (long story!). We will be 60 this year and every day needs effort to make things work - this is what makes our relationship work. At its best there is an almost telepathic understanding when we are in a group of people knowing what each other is thinking or noticing - it’s the same at home watching TV - there are so many things that make us smile internally when we are together - I love this private little world we have built - the thought of having to ever build another relationship with someone else is just too overwhelming to even contemplate even if one of us were to die. It’s a project and we’ll be working on it forever - that gives me enough to think about so I really don’t have the energy, time or interest to think about other peoples relationships: my wife is a lot more interested in people, families and relationships than I am - she’s like a monkey who likes to climb on other people’s family trees - she asks lots of questions and quickly builds up pictures of people and their families, illnesses, births, deaths and marriages - she’s a good listener and trustworthy and people find it easy to talk to her - she would have made a good counsellor. We are quite different people in terms of how our minds work but we agreed on the importance of having children and enjoy a lot of similar values and interests but there are real differences: me - atheist, have creative hobbies - musician, songwriter, painting, writing, lifelong reader, has always exercised and played sport - my wife’s a believer, doesn’t have any interest in doing anything creative, sport or exercise - she does enjoy watching quite a lot of sport - the differences are not a problem just because we have to make some compromises - I suppose, when you are in a relationship like this you rarely think purely about just your own needs.

The PhD from 2007 is Commitment and Evolution -
Connecting Emotion and Reason in Long-term Relationships by
István Back - it really looks at an argument that commitment in a relationship could be explained as it has an evolutionary advantage, i.e. relationships are worth it - overall.

trusting is = confusing it is
Eugh no editing posible!

@Topseyt

I don't give it any real thought if I am honest.

I've been married for 28 years, mostly happily. We've had our moments though like anyone else and at times we have also irritated the hell out of each other. We often look back on those occasions now and laugh about them.

We're in the 1993 club too. And what you have said mirrors my thoughts exactly. I don't really think about how long we've been married and certainly don't give a moments thought to other people. We're just us.

Esther Perel - therapist and relationship counsellor - said that you have to SHOW you love someone - not just say it.
I thought that was very true. It's so easy to spout 'luv you' or buy the odd bunch of flowers (especially as now it's just a matter of phoning and ordering and paying online) but you have to do things. Perhaps help with .... well anything that tires /bores the other, say things - thank them for ........ being helpful, being a good listener, helping out other family members, going to the supermarket for the forgotten item ............. not take things for granted.
I find it's very easy to hold grudges but if I remember Esther's advice it reminds me to be more positive. (her podcasts are very interesting)

I really don't think about other couples relationships that much. I'd be inclined to think that if you've been together 25 years there must be something significant in it for both parties, or at least it is better than the alternatives.

I really like that statement: you have to SHOW you love someone - not just say it. That must be critical, that each partner thinks that they are loved and respected.

It's not about having sex or not; none, lots, everything in between is great as long as it suits both people. It's not a thing the comes up a lot in general discussion, but libido mismatch has ended/killed a few long term relationships of people I've had known very well over the years. It's not something OP mentioned, but I'd always suspect that as a potential issue.

@Fishkettlesgalore do you want to end your relationship. Is that the reason for the thread.
I think if you are genuinely not happy and are feeling this way a long time.Maybe bite the bullet and finish it.

I wouldnt stay in a marriage if i was genuinely unhappy.Life is too short.

And i think sex and intimacy is very important in a relationship.
Unless of course its a mutual decision.

I always think of Bryan Adams Heaven song.
How my life and relationship has changed over the 30 years.
The only real wobble i get if im honest is when i think shit its been 30 years.Where has my life gone.
Wonder what would have happened if i hadnt gone out that night.

But overall im happy and i think thats good enough for me.

Apart from cheating, I think a lot of relationships fail because there are so many men that are a toxic combination of abusive/controlling/children/lazy. MN is full of such posts about horrible men, and I'd expect the marriages break when the woman finally sees it for what it is.

So to get to 25 years there have some something good?

I'd imagine slowly growing part over 25 years is something that could happen, but it did not to us. We grew and evolved, it's not the same as it was, but somethings are even better. But YES where did the time go :(

I'd agree that sex can be an important part of a longer term relationship. So many posts on MN too with that topic!

a lot of relationships fail because there are so many men that are a toxic combination of abusive/controlling/children/lazy. well neither sex is always blameless this sounds really sexist.

@ckverity9

In my opinion, any relationship is built on compromise and mutual respect.

And this is what has got our relationship through, over 25 years. We’ve had times where we’ve struggled, but we’ve always been open about when or why we are unhappy and when or why we are at our happiest. Both compromised along the way but we have the same goals and values.

I don’t think about other people’s marriages so much. So many people don’t say how they really feel though and that leads to resentment and how do you fix that?

Yep, he's often the cause. I'm constantly on the verge of calling it a day. Probably won't though.

27 years in.
I don't think about other people's marriages. But yes you are probably right, there will have been significant compromises.

We’ve just reached the 25th anniversary milestone. We’ve had ups and downs and both of us have had to compromise at different times during the 30 years we’ve been together. I always say that staying married comes down to one person not doing something that pees the other one off sufficiently that they end it. Do you feel differently about couples together for 25+ years that have never married?

@Fishkettlesgalore glad my post helped and also glad I'm not the only one feeling this way! This is a useful thread for thinking through some of these issues.

I think a degree of independence/sense of freedom is really important in a marriage, and I think that was/is at the heart of my fears - what if I never get to do some of the things I want to do in life because DH doesn't want them too? Am I destined to always live in the same house, because that's what he wants, or never to own a cat because he hates them, or will I ever get the chance to travel somewhere alone (for fun instead of work) because he would feel snubbed? I'm not one of those wives who can just go off and do something no matter what their partner thinks, I'm a people pleaser and I'd feel too guilty.

I guess these things are ultimately not the most important things - having a happy, healthy family is more meaningful than those and I am grateful that we have the life we have. It doesn't stop you feeling a bit sad for what you give up though, and I think that's probably normal and natural and worth considering instead of bottling up.

And I should also add that I think the pandemic/lockdowns are exacerbating all of that because there are so few normal opportunities at the moment for couples to do things independently eg seeing friends, work responsibilities, other hobbies and interests which we might do separately etc. Living, working and parenting together all the time is intense and often there's not enough space - mental or physical - for relationships to breathe. There's nothing to report or discuss because we're always together, doing the same things. Which is kind of what marriage is like anyway! I can't wait until things move forward to a point where we can have experiences again - whether that's together as a family/couple or apart. I think it will refresh so many relationships which currently feel rather stale and boring.

Thank you yellowDahlia you have absolutely nailed it (again!) and I could have written both of your latest posts!

I have found the pandemic hard work, and although DH has had to work flat out too, he has enjoyed wfh although he is feeling more cooped up now. We've had too much unrelenting non-quality time together and the stress the teens have been through has not helped. As you say, our relationship definitely needs some time to breathe!

To answer questions from other posters, no I don't want to end my relationship, I still love my DH, and our sex life is still good, if a little restrained currently by having teens in the house.

The problem is definitely as yellowDahlia has defined it. It's a mixture of the pandemic, my age (mid-fifties), one of the teens leaving home, a close friend becoming seriously ill with cancer and therefore a sense that if I am going to do something for myself, I need to do it now!

Am I destined to always live in the same house, because that's what he wants, or never to own a cat because he hates them, or will I ever get the chance to travel somewhere alone (for fun instead of work) because he would feel snubbed? I'm not one of those wives who can just go off and do something no matter what their partner thinks, I'm a people pleaser and I'd feel too guilty

^^This part of yellowDahlia's post definitely rings true! As she said earlier, the little compromises add up. My personality is such that I feel guilty too if I go and simply please myself but it is important to understand it is all a balancing act. If I get too demoralised or depressed it doesn't help my family either. It's working out where the dividing line is I suppose.

And as you say,

I guess these things are ultimately not the most important things - having a happy, healthy family is more meaningful than those and I am grateful that we have the life we have. It doesn't stop you feeling a bit sad for what you give up though, and I think that's probably normal and natural and worth considering instead of bottling up.

^^Yes this is definitely worth considering, within the context of being grateful for the important things. Thank you!

And thank you very much to everyone else who has replied since yesterday morning. I haven't read them all yet but will do so after today! I appreciate all the different views expressed here.

Nobody knows what goes on, some are blissfully happy, some are content to live their lives but admit their personal relationship is non existent beyond friendship, others are actively wondering if they are splitting. Dps ex filed for divorce 3 weeks after their silver anniversary.

In the meantime, Weebleweeble I am busy this afternoon but I will try and listen to an Esther Perel podcast this afternoon while driving/choring.

Thank you for the reminder that everyone needs to SHOW love, as it is so easy to give the opposite impression if not careful.

We’re getting there, been together 17 years now, I feel smug too if I’m honest, do you know how hard it is to find loyalty and stability nowadays? Way harder than you think as most can’t achieve it.

Every marriage has difficulties and yes, I would say marriage is about compromise. In my experience communication is key.

I agree with the OP that this bit of yellowDahlia's post is really interesting:

Am I destined to always live in the same house, because that's what he wants, or never to own a cat because he hates them, or will I ever get the chance to travel somewhere alone (for fun instead of work) because he would feel snubbed? I'm not one of those wives who can just go off and do something no matter what their partner thinks, I'm a people pleaser and I'd feel too guilty

I'm one of the posters who posted earlier to say we're still very happy, and this paragraph has really made me ponder as to why that is. Is it because I was lucky enough at age 22 to find someone who still wants the same things as me now we're 46/47? Or is it because we both do our own thing (to some extent) and the other doesn't mind? Or because there's nothing I want so much that I don't mind giving it up? Maybe a combination of the three?? Really interesting!