Lovely husband versus different life with friend – what to do?

[KormasABitch]

Apologies for the long post, I will try not to dripfeed.

I have a lovely husband, let’s call him Pete. We’ve been together almost a decade. He’s devoted to me, endlessly kind; nothing is too much trouble. A few years ago, we moved to a country where, unfortunately, he can’t get work (I’m OK as I work online). We’re planning to move elsewhere. In the meantime, he does all the shopping and cooking, chops wood for the fire, etc. We get on brilliantly and have none of the irritations I associate even with close friendships. We have the same tastes in music, films etc and often enjoy lovely weekends away doing things together like hiking or cycling. We never get bored with each other’s company.

Pete’s quite a bit younger than me, which hasn’t worried us over the years because as far as we’re concerned, being incredibly compatible is so lucky that it outweighs everything. However, one snag is our difference in life experience. He’s used to renting a place, and I’m not sure he’ll ever be what I’d call a responsible home owner. General maintenance etc doesn’t seem to occur to him, and I don’t want to be a nag, but find the overall neglect depressing when I’m so busy. He covers the basics, but anything else is a bit like pushing water uphill.

None of this might have mattered had it not been for life throwing me a curve ball.

My oldest friend, “John” (we’ve known each other 20-odd years), got divorced a couple of years ago. I helped him through the emotional process. We’ve always been close (despite him living in another country), but I suppose that brought us a bit closer for a while. I never thought much of it when he left his wife, but over the past couple of years we have exchanged friendly (not flirtatious!) messages and sometimes I find myself pining for the kind of life I could have with him. Over the years, we’ve had some great adventures together (when married to other people, so we never acknowledged or acted on the chemistry that was there), we have a good laugh, we understand each other well, and we have the same values. Pete, for example, can’t be bothered with family and I wish he made more effort to know my parents, who won’t be around for much longer; whereas I know John would connect well.

I am approaching retirement age and financial security has become more important to me than it once was. I hate to admit it, but combining forces with someone who has worked as hard as me is also appealing.

This is all churning round and round in my head, and I feel ridiculous. I don’t want to discuss it with anyone IRL, but would appreciate any input here. I hate feeling even a smidgen of disloyalty to Pete, because I adore him. It feels as though my priorities in life might be shifting somewhat, but maybe I’m just doing that “grass greener” thing and should just STFU.

@sunshinesupermum
Normally I am all for age differences in relationships (and definitely in praise of younger men!) but something just doesn't feel right in yours at this stage of your life.

Well, it's a pretty crap situation isn't it at the moment! I've been really trying not to panic ever since "John" asked me about financial security.

It's funny, a few PPs have talked about reliving my youth or being flattered by the attentions of a younger man, and it's not about that. I've done all that in other relationships. And I had years on my own and had decided never to mess my life up with another bloke, and was perfectly happy, and then I met Pete. And we were so careful not to rush into anything (unbelievable really, considering how reckless we've been since getting married!), and he just makes everything better.

It's not an ego boost being with a younger man. In fact quite the opposite!! I remember him telling me fondly that he'd much rather wake up in bed to me than to someone beautiful. And I was like, WTF!! 😂 I was gutted. But you know, you get your head round it, you can't just be silly and romantic about this sort of thing. He's not with me for my looks, which are hardly going to get better with time. (Obviously he's with me for my money!!!!!!!)

I think what I love about being with him is that he treats women so well, I mean with natural kindness and respect. At a family do, he will always jump up to help my mum to the car, and I am not sure my brothers have ever done that. He properly listens to everything I say, I mean everything. With other blokes, or even people in general, I got used to them being switched off half the time so you'd have to repeat things. But he remembers every detail.

A lot of the men of my generation, even if they try being nice to women, seem to get it wrong, like a kind of charitable activity they should get a scout badge for.

Caught up at last!!!
and dinner is nearly ready. 10 minutes!
and it's Fridaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!

Wishing you all a lovely weekend

I sort of think if I was a bloke and he was a woman, our situation wouldn't raise eyebrows quite so much...?

I think it would.

If a bloke was working his butt off to support a woman and she was lazy and contributed nothing (and hadn't stopped work to raise the kids) I think there would be an outcry!

So...following your thread now, it looks as if over a day and a bit, you've come round to deciding that ''Pete' is a keeper.

I hope he doesn't disappoint you.

I am worried about your lack of pension provision. Maybe you are being a bit unrealistic over what you need as a pot to give you (both) a reasonable standard of living, or maybe you don't care that much.

Starting to save at 60 for your retirement is pretty late in the day (I speak as someone who is retired, living off my own occupational pension, my state pension, and DH's final salary pension combined) unless this H of yours gets his head out of the sand and starts earning.

All the best with it all!

Thanks, @whatkindofdaughter!

Needless to say, I also hope he doesn't disappoint me. There's only one way to find out, though, and I'm going to try it.

I'm basing my pension pot on what "John" has stashed away. He's been my financial adviser over the years, and he's really good at it. I think you can imagine how that has added to his recent appeal!

Oh dear God- John was your financial advisor (loosely.)

Run like the wind! If he thought that cashing in your pension at 55 to fund the repairs of a ruin somewhere in Bulgaria, he's a prize fool. That is money you will never get back to equal the value.

(Your best option is a private pension where with a tax break on it, the government puts in 20% of whatever you do- but you need to be a UK tax payer to do that).

You have had a lucky escape!

@Miniestelle

As I've just come back to the thread cos it was lovely and friendly the couple of days, it's gone a bit weird now.

Sorry Miniestelle I think it's safe to come back now that I am sober.

@whatkindofdaughter

Oh dear God- John was your financial advisor (loosely.)

Run like the wind! If he thought that cashing in your pension at 55 to fund the repairs of a ruin somewhere in Bulgaria, he's a prize fool. That is money you will never get back to equal the value.

(Your best option is a private pension where with a tax break on it, the government puts in 20% of whatever you do- but you need to be a UK tax payer to do that).

You have had a lucky escape!

Haha! Oh Lord, no, he would never have advised me to do what I've done.

What I mean is that he gives me pointers for picking up the pieces with this sort of thing, and prompts me to think ahead a bit more than I normally would. In fact that's what he was asking about recently, which is what set me off on this whole episode.

I had a SIPP in the UK and got my 20% on it, but obviously that doesn't work now that I'm no longer a UK resident, so I just have stocks and shares instead. John explains it all to me now and then and it's in one ear and out the other.

We're not in Bulgaria BTW! 😊

@KormasABitch

That's an interesting take, *@PleasurePrinciple*. It never crossed my mind that talking about "sending" him to work was infantilising him in any way. I was more responding to PPs who seem to think I should insist on what he does next and order him out of the door, or to study, or whatever.

You used the word 'slavery' twice to describe perfectly ordinary manual jobs
Have you ever tried doing any of these perfectly ordinary manual jobs yourself?

Re studying for qualifications, that's a long-term investment in being employed by someone else, no? When his plan is to work for himself.

I have done, absolutely, I’ve been a drain-unblocker, worked in a meat-processing plant, cut turf, picked fruit, done general farm work, cleared a smallholding with manual tools solo, and I’m the daughter of a binman from the pre-wheelie bin ‘hoist it up on your shoulder’ days.

Those are tough jobs, but they’re paid and you get to quit. They aren’t ‘slavery’.

Hark at you, @PleasurePrinciple! Nice one.

Hmm. OK, then, so... I suppose he and I both think of working for other people as a kind of "slavery," regardless of how good or bad the work is.

When I talk like this, what does it sound like to you? I'm trying to get a handle on it. Does it sound like I don't think he's grown-up enough to cope with real life, or something? If it's that, then I'd say quite the opposite. A PP asked, a while back, who I'd rather do things with John, or Pete and I said, without entirely knowing why, that it would definitely be Pete for starting life in a new country. I think it's because he's got guts, he's resourceful, he communicates easily, etc.

Or am I missing something else ? The infantilising thing you mention, I just don't feel or see it. Of course I might just be blind to it, so I'm curious.

I do think you need to talk to real people. Do you have any women friends who know both or either men? All we have is what you tell us and that's bound to be biased and selective.

The crux of this is that suddenly you have begun to think of a different life with someone else (who represents something different but isn't making a move on you, so it's all a fantasy.)

If you were truly happy with Pete (which you seem to be persuading yourself and us (!) you are) why did you ask?

On the surface, it seems as if all P doesn't have is money and a job.

And because you have a rather wacky, bohemian lifestyle, that kind of suits you.

So what's your problem?

You've posted so many comments, mainly witty, some glib, others more measured, but I have honestly lost the plot now because you seem to have talked yourself into making a go of it with your H.

All I will add is that you have been bloody marvellous not to get huffy as some comments have challenged you.

BUT on the other hand you have batted away some questions without engaging on a deeper level, and rushed to P's defence a little too fast.

@whatkindofdaughter, Yes I see what you mean, you must wonder what the point of all this is. Well, thanks to everyone who has stuck by.

I'm a bit embarrassed to admit this, but I honestly was in a real tizz about John. For various reasons rooted in history, he is filed under "Hero to the rescue" in my heart and mind, and him expressing concern for my financial welfare set off a whole fireworks display of "what ifs." I mean it literally did feel like my whole brain was fizzing with it all and I just didn't know where to put myself.

John tends to point out when I have done something stupid financially, and his probing about my £££ security set off my natural tendency to feel I have absolutely no idea what I'm playing at in life and should sit in the corner with the dunce's cap on.

I know everyone pooh-poohed the notion, and I have no way of proving it to anyone, but I don't think I was being wildly delusional saying that there is potential for serious romance there if we were single, or made ourselves single. And John represents just so many things that are practically irresistible to me right now.

I'll never be able to use the word "yearning" again without laughing 😁

Answering questions here has helped me to process what it is about Pete that suits me so well that I have taken such risks and played things so close to the line at an age when I should be more careful.

I know there's all that "sunken costs fallacy" stuff and confirmation bias etc etc, so I might just be talking myself into making do with a bad deal, but it doesn't feel like that. It feels more as though I'm taking myself more seriously than I usually do and giving weight to the things that are important to me instead of panicking that I'm not doing things "properly." Things that I would not really have noticed or thought through if I weren't answering some of the questions on here, perhaps particularly the more snarky ones. It's like becoming aware, as a fish, of the water around me. So this is my natural environment! I swim around in it all day and never notice it, what it is, how I breathe in it.

I hope this makes sense!

Have I really batted away questions without engaging with them on a deeper level? Which ones? Honestly, I'm trying not to.

I do have ONE friend IRL who knows them both -- not very well, but enough. I'll talk to her about this. I'm warning you, though, her comment when we had a drink with John in Brighton once was "Phwowar!" And she's not the sort to say that sort of thing. So she might be a bad influence 😋

Oh and P.S. I had a skim through some of my earlier posts, just out of interest, and what leapt out at me was that just a couple of days ago I expressed certainty that Pete will never work all that hard, and much prefers having fun.

And now I'm banging on about slavery and how hard he worked.

I can't really have it both ways, can I?!
I'm going to have a little think about that one.

Let's cut to the chase.

Do you love Pete, warts and all?

Is he the man who sets your heart alight? Do you enjoy his company? Do you have great sex? Does he support you emotionally when you need it and will need it ?(ie when your elderly parents die.)

The fact he's a dead loss when it comes to money and work doesn't matter a jot as long as you don't resent working and being the breadwinner (while he plays games.)

But when you are 75 or more and he's late 50s or early 60s, what will that look like?

I can see 100% what he gets out of life with you - free board and lodging, company, sex, (assuming), nothing more taxing than shopping for food and cooking dinner.

But are you heading in the same direction with the same values as you get older?

Have I really batted away questions without engaging with them on a deeper level? Which ones? Honestly, I'm trying not to.

Mainly relocating to a country where his job prospects were low or zero.

I don't know which is the real you.
Is it the Korma who ditched her life in the UK on a whim and set off with no idea of what life would be like in a new country?

How much research did you do before you moved? Did you ignore or minimise what Pete could do ?
How did he feel?

Or is the real Korma a woman who wants security in older age and realises she is with a man who doesn't have those drivers?

Maybe instead of analysing Pete, you ought to focus on yourself. Who are you now- not 5 years ago.

@KormasABitch

Hark at you, *@PleasurePrinciple*! Nice one.

Hmm. OK, then, so... I suppose he and I both think of working for other people as a kind of "slavery," regardless of how good or bad the work is.

When I talk like this, what does it sound like to you? I'm trying to get a handle on it. Does it sound like I don't think he's grown-up enough to cope with real life, or something? If it's that, then I'd say quite the opposite. A PP asked, a while back, who I'd rather do things with John, or Pete and I said, without entirely knowing why, that it would definitely be Pete for starting life in a new country. I think it's because he's got guts, he's resourceful, he communicates easily, etc.

Or am I missing something else ? The infantilising thing you mention, I just don't feel or see it. Of course I might just be blind to it, so I'm curious.

I was actually going to university for a very long time while doing all these jobs so I wouldn’t have to keep doing them. I quite like cutting turf, but I’ll admit meat-processing probably contributed to my vegetarianism…

I’ll tell you what strikes me from your recent posts — that you said Pete had been literally enslaved when he arrived in the UK and had had to resist and escape gangmasters. Clearly, whether or not he arrived via legal means, he was in a vulnerable position as a new immigrant for that to happen? I suppose it makes me think again about the extent to which economic matters — and your very different attitudes to money, work and property ownership — are prompting your re-examination of the relationship, and to what extent his attitude to economic security and your supposedly shared property (in which he doesn’t seem to feel he has a stake) is caused by his early experiences in the UK, and being from a developing country (if he is?)

His experiences of starting in such vulnerable conditions in the UK must also have impacted on his starting over again in a third country with you?

Does any of this contribute to your sense of him as someone to care for? Who will then flip and care for you, eventually?

Does it bother you that he’s quite upfront about not finding you beautiful?

What would Pete be doing now if he’d stayed in the UK?

@PleasurePrinciple and @whatkindofdaughter ask great questions.

You're in love.

Enjoy it, but save and refer to this thread further down the line when OH gets complicated!

It’s all a bit pie in the sky. You actually have no way of knowing that John is actually interested in starting and maintaining a serious monogamous relationship with you. Yes yes I heard you, you get on wonderfully well, similar hobbies, you HAVE spent a whole 6 weeks together but you don’t know for sure he actually wants you.
You have told us by your friends reaction that he is very good looking and that he appreciates attractive women,( perves on attractive women ??) like that doesn’t have the potential in itself to be a problem (because you know those attractive women he’s appreciating are going to be returning the favour). It feels like you are concerned that Pete isn’t going to be able to support you financially in your old age. Maybe you see John as your retirement plan as you said that he’s more financially successful and intelligent. Fwiw I would be incredibly offended by a friend probing about my financial security. It’s more likely he’s taking the opportunity to have a dig at Pete.
On a very basic level I don’t think Pete is meeting all your requirements and that resentment is already starting to creep in. John is obviously the better choice if you’re looking for someone to give you a comfortable retirement, why don’t you ask him if he wants to give a relationship a try.
Pete actually sounds lovely and I’m sure he won’t be sad and lonely for long.

This thread is so interesting. And you sound fab OP!

I think you've had some really valuable insights from pps. It does sound like you and Pete really do love each other, and it also sounds like your recent chats with him have had a positive result.

What I did want to point out to you is that you've had quite a strong negative reaction to any suggestions of therapy, and I wonder why that is? There can often be a sense of "I can't justify spending money on myself" if your self esteem is low - and after an abusive first marriage it would be normal for your self esteem to be battered.

Equally the thought of having to be honest and talk about emotions with someone, and perhaps dwell on unpleasant memories, can be a frightening one.

I have ptsd as a result of childhood sex abuse, and I was terrified by the idea of therapy. Instead I tried to throw all my memories into a closet and lock the door. Unfortunately that is not a sustainable solution! Therapy was painful and bloody difficult - but it's been the greatest act of self love I have ever made. It has brought me mental and emotional freedom that I really never imagined.

Apologies if I am way off track with that but you really remind me of myself before I engaged with therapy, especially humour as your go to emotion. (Don't worry, therapy did not remove my sense of humour! 😅) I would really recommend researching therapists. It's an investment in yourself and your health, not idle self indulgent navel gazing!

I'd just LOVE Pete to join this conversation

Things I'd ask are

How did you feel when you met Korma?

Why did you marry her? [Maybe to prevent you being deported according to your status here?] Maybe you were here on a short visa or no visa.

Does the age gap bother you?

Do you understand how Korma is worried about your future together because you haven't pulled your weight with earning and supporting yourselves as a couple.

What are the most important things to you for the next year, 5 years, 20 years?

What attracts you to Korma given she says you are not with her for her looks?

Are you willing to find 'proper ' work so that when she is 70 and older, you will be able to support her financially, like she is doing now for you?

Gosh, good morning ladies, and massive thanks for sticking with me and my wobbly head.

@whatkindofdaughter

Is he the man who sets your heart alight?
We’re not romantic people. I don’t get a fluttery rush. To be honest, I never trust that feeling (which I used to rely on in other relationships). I feel safe and loved, and he literally makes me laugh from the minute we wake up to the minute we go to bed.

Do you enjoy his company?
Yes, we never get bored with each other.

Do you have great sex?
That’s not really the cornerstone of our relationship. We have a nice time when we get round to it, but it’s not the “cement” holding everything together as it has been in other relationships I’ve known.

Does he support you emotionally when you need it and will need it ?(ie when your elderly parents die.)
Well, he always listens and takes my feelings seriously and I never have to explain them because he understands me instantly. We see things the same way. Re my parents dying, neither of us are sentimental about the fact that no one lives for ever (including us!). My parents have had an incredibly long “innings” and I have made the most of having them around, e.g. plenty of visits in the UK and we do a Skype call for an hour every week, so I won’t be a mess when they go. I think a lot of grief is around unresolved issues, and I’ve had all those conversations with them and they know I love them and I know they love me and we’ve accepted each other’s idiosyncrasies and you can’t force anyone to live for ever.

The fact he's a dead loss when it comes to money and work doesn't matter a jot as long as you don't resent working and being the breadwinner (while he plays games.) But when you are 75 or more and he's late 50s or early 60s, what will that look like?
I am hoping this is a temporary patch brought on by the move to the wrong country, and promise to be more careful in future. 😋

I can see 100% what he gets out of life with you - free board and lodging, company, sex, (assuming), nothing more taxing than shopping for food and cooking dinner.
I think he gets a bit more than that out of being with me. It’s my secret special ingredient that in all my life, only he truly appreciates!

Mainly relocating to a country where his job prospects were low or zero. How much research did you do before you moved?
So, we came here on holiday and loved it. And it was hot! We looked at each other and said “Let’s move here one day.” And then it all happened much quicker than we’d imagined, because our house in the UK (which we just floated to see if there was any interest) sold instantly for cash. Our mistake then was to buy here instead of rent. We did it in a hurry, so didn’t pay much attention – as far as we were concerned, it was all better than shivering.
We normally research things a LOT, we're both Google freaks. I can't quite believe we didn't do much research about coming here. I think we just fancied a new start, somewhere we'd both be experiencing things from scratch, if that makes sense, instead of him joining me in "my" house and my pink girly bedroom that I had decorated with every intention of never letting a man in there for the rest of my life 🤣

Did you ignore or minimise what Pete could do?
His plan was to expand his online business. But, as it turned out, first we had to rebuild the house, and then the economy went a bit pear-shaped.

How did he feel?
He was happy as Larry. He always is, honestly, whatever the circumstances. And we both like an adventure (as you may have gathered!).
He did try to warn me that the house might not be ideal; I think his words were “Are you sure?” – but I was all wrapped up in the excitement of imagining an easier life out here where I could just float around the garden picking marigolds, so I just said yes yes yes it’s fine, it's great, where do I sign.

Or is the real Korma a woman who wants security in older age and realises she is with a man who doesn't have those drivers? Maybe instead of analysing Pete, you ought to focus on yourself. Who are you now- not 5 years ago.
I think the accumulated costs of rebuilding this place came as a bit of a shock and then I realised that my savings were pretty much gone, so that when John asked me how it was all looking, I felt a bit of a chump. Then, in my panic, I added 2 and 2 together and made about 16. 😁

@PleasurePrinciple
He came to the UK legally, but there were language issues (i.e. not speaking English) that had got his friends (already here) into trouble. They had painted a glowing picture of life, but the reality was being held more or less hostage by unscrupulous bastards who confiscated passports, forced people to live in terrible conditions, and confiscated their earnings to spend on coke and flash cars. Needless to say, Pete did not put up with this for one minute. He’s not afraid of anyone, even if they have a gun. You could make a dramatic movie about how he got him and his girlfriend out of that situation.

to what extent his attitude to economic security and your supposedly shared property (in which he doesn’t seem to feel he has a stake) is caused by his early experiences in the UK, and being from a developing country (if he is?)
He’s not from a developing country. But his background is poor. He didn’t know what a lounge was until he came to the UK. He was amazed that people have a whole room just for sitting in! He and his brother shared the sofabed in theirs, right up until he left home as a young adult.

I think he has difficulty getting his head round actually OWNING what we have.

For a long time before we first lived together, we just accepted that there was no future for us. I assumed he meant because of my age, and he assumed I meant because anyone in their right mind would be looking for someone who matched me economically. Once we realised that our assumptions were mistaken, it was full steam ahead. But I think he still has this feeling that the property is all mine because I’m the one who earned it. On the other hand, I think it’s sinking in that home ownership comes with certain obligations!!!!!!!

Does any of this contribute to your sense of him as someone to care for? Who will then flip and care for you, eventually?
Apart from my recent panic and resentment about £££, I don’t think of myself as looking after him at all. I feel as though he looks after me, and does a good job of it in every respect except the economic one, which currently hurts thanks to my poor decisions.

Does it bother you that he’s quite upfront about not finding you beautiful?
No, I love that he’s upfront about everything. He is the most honest man I’ve ever known. Others have commented on this too. I was of course hurt when he said he’d rather wake up to me than to someone beautiful. At my age, I obviously can’t possibly compete with women his age and it would be mad to try. What I do know is that he’s not interested in them at all. He says, and I know he means it, that the orgasm he gets out of listening to me talking is better than any physical orgasm. I thought that was a nice compliment.

What would Pete be doing now if he’d stayed in the UK?
Expanding that online business. A close friend of his does the same thing and bought a house for cash, so it does have the potential to make good £££.

sorry when I said "(already here)" I meant already in the UK. It still comes naturally for me to talk about the UK as "here" 🙄

Wow- to your updates @KormasABitch

I'm sorry but at 55, moving to another country on whim because it's hot there comes over as very rash. (And yes, you always get paid in cash for a house sale. Even if the buyer needs a mortgage, the money goes into your account as cash.)

So much of what you describe makes it sound as if all these things happened to you, rather than you making well-considered choices.

I'd really love you to have therapy as other PPs have suggested.
You come over as having a rather 'split' personality.

On the one hand, you make impulsive decisions about very important issues, like where to live and underestimate the costs, the job opportunities for your H, etc, but on the other you sound very unemotional about your parents' lifespan and your own sex life.

(Just because a parent lives to a ripe old age doesn't minimise the loss. My father died at 93 and I feel it just as much as if he'd been 63 or 73.)

I don't understand why your H couldn't continue with his online selling or whatever unless he needed to buy stock and re-sell it and there was no money owing to the house renovations. And the pandemic ought not to have impacted on an online business- quite the opposite.

Sometimes I feel the narrative you are telling is glossing over some truths, as it suits you to be glib, like what does Pete get out of being married to you. I notice a pattern of ending these types of questions with a one-liner hahaha comment, rather than actually being honest and digging a bit deeper.

Do you think you deflect certain issues with humour?