Lovely husband versus different life with friend – what to do?

[KormasABitch]

Apologies for the long post, I will try not to dripfeed.

I have a lovely husband, let’s call him Pete. We’ve been together almost a decade. He’s devoted to me, endlessly kind; nothing is too much trouble. A few years ago, we moved to a country where, unfortunately, he can’t get work (I’m OK as I work online). We’re planning to move elsewhere. In the meantime, he does all the shopping and cooking, chops wood for the fire, etc. We get on brilliantly and have none of the irritations I associate even with close friendships. We have the same tastes in music, films etc and often enjoy lovely weekends away doing things together like hiking or cycling. We never get bored with each other’s company.

Pete’s quite a bit younger than me, which hasn’t worried us over the years because as far as we’re concerned, being incredibly compatible is so lucky that it outweighs everything. However, one snag is our difference in life experience. He’s used to renting a place, and I’m not sure he’ll ever be what I’d call a responsible home owner. General maintenance etc doesn’t seem to occur to him, and I don’t want to be a nag, but find the overall neglect depressing when I’m so busy. He covers the basics, but anything else is a bit like pushing water uphill.

None of this might have mattered had it not been for life throwing me a curve ball.

My oldest friend, “John” (we’ve known each other 20-odd years), got divorced a couple of years ago. I helped him through the emotional process. We’ve always been close (despite him living in another country), but I suppose that brought us a bit closer for a while. I never thought much of it when he left his wife, but over the past couple of years we have exchanged friendly (not flirtatious!) messages and sometimes I find myself pining for the kind of life I could have with him. Over the years, we’ve had some great adventures together (when married to other people, so we never acknowledged or acted on the chemistry that was there), we have a good laugh, we understand each other well, and we have the same values. Pete, for example, can’t be bothered with family and I wish he made more effort to know my parents, who won’t be around for much longer; whereas I know John would connect well.

I am approaching retirement age and financial security has become more important to me than it once was. I hate to admit it, but combining forces with someone who has worked as hard as me is also appealing.

This is all churning round and round in my head, and I feel ridiculous. I don’t want to discuss it with anyone IRL, but would appreciate any input here. I hate feeling even a smidgen of disloyalty to Pete, because I adore him. It feels as though my priorities in life might be shifting somewhat, but maybe I’m just doing that “grass greener” thing and should just STFU.

As I've just come back to the thread cos it was lovely and friendly the couple of days, it's gone a bit weird now.

@KormasABitch

Does anyone on here know the difference between fantasy and reality, and the importance of differentiating between the two?

I mean, I thought I was nuts. But now I understand why Pete says we're the only sane people left in the world. Thank god we live away from people.

Apologies to all the sane folk who are out there and not reading or posting. I'm sure we're not the only ones. But still.

Oh dear, sorry, I was verrrrry drunk! Wine on an empty stomach to celebrate the estate agent's visit. It was a huge step for us.

The above post was my hasty and indignant response to what I'd read as a rather spiteful comment from @Fabiofatshaft1 and the subsequent sniggers, but re-reading them now sober I realise they have a point and it's a fair observation to make!

It most certainly was NOT aimed at you, @PleasurePrinciple, whose generous sharing of your own sanity has helped me enormously. Nor any of the other posters.

Ah well, I had my moment of drunken glory 🥴 up there on my soapbox spouting about fantasy and reality, like I'm the expert in knowing the difference. That must have given you quite the laugh. Now it's nose back on grindstone for another day. Wishing you all a good one.

@Polkadots2021 Thank you! You're absolutely right. I feel really ashamed of myself for even considering that what I have isn't perfect for me. I think I'm just tired and overworked, and no doubt a bit stir-crazy in these rather odd times. I'm incredibly lucky to have Pete, and I won't doubt it ever again.

@Onthedunes
Why would you want John, just for the financial benefits?
He's also great company, it's the reason we've kept in touch for billions of years when many other friends have drifted away.

But yes, I think it's the financial benefits that were tugging at my heartstrings. Sorry to say. I work long hours, and often weekends too, and lately (COVID?) it just feels like I'm in this endless long tunnel of dreary work work work, and I'm so tired, and I found myself just longing to be with someone who could pay for me to take a break. I know this is horribly shallow of me!

I was sort of conveniently forgetting that Pete is irreplaceable.

It was just one of those brainfuck things where things fall into place in a way that seems to make sense.

I think you would clash too much with John, butt heads and fight with power struggles

This with knobs on.

Just caught up with your thread again and read it all after posting about my 'Pete'.

So agree with this... and I honestly think you are just having normal doubts that we all go through. I hate to call it midlife crisis but everyone has a is this it? time in their marriages after time together.

Mine came at 50 and ye gods, we went through a rocky patch that lasted too long. But boy oh boy I'm so glad I stuck with it and got through that time because now we're happily retired, happily travelling (haha I wish!) we're just chillin' and enjoying life. I had opportunities too in my rocky patch, and I'm just glad I walked away.

Your Pete isn't perfect by any stretch I'm sure, but he suits you and you have to think what he would be like when you're ancient and he's still there doing the sweet things he does. OK he's not a go-getter as far as earning money, nor is my Pete, but affability, kindness and adoration counts for a helluva lot!

Thanks so much, @Roussette You are so right! 💗

I got myself in a pickle longing for an easier life, one in which I didn't have to work so hard and someone else could treat me to things for a change.

We just have to find a way forward where the balance is more equal, and we had an estate agent round yesterday to sell up here and downsize in a country where Pete can work.

I think we've had a rather overcomplicated run of things since moving to where we are now, and a simpler life will fix the problem. I know from experience (of living in a ruin here with him) that I'd be happier living in a paper bag than living in a 5* hotel with anyone else in the world.

^ happier living in a paper bag with Pete than living in a 5* hotel

!!!

obvs

I wouldn't just be happier living in a paper bag on my own.

I'm not that nuts.

Yet.

I got myself in a pickle longing for an easier life, one in which I didn't have to work so hard and someone else could treat me to things for a change

Yes yes yes to this. I know that feeling too well. I have yearned to not be the one doing it all, to have someone take over sometimes, earn more money etc... but then I thought to myself 'Hang on... earning more money and taking over will mean I will lose my voice maybe!'

I think you and Pete in another country in that paper bag together (!) with his opportunities to work more and plenty of gentle nudging from you... really might be the answer.

Lots of luck!

Thank you, Roussette.

Yes, I think it's the answer. And if we really push the boat out, we might even end up in a cardboard box!

I'm so glad you've reached your happy/relaxed time, and I hope the travel restrictions ease soon so that you can really make the most of it. x

So you decided to move to a country where Pete can’t work, you then moan he can’t renovate a house (well no shit if he isn’t a tradey), he does all the housework, cooking etc and is essentially the live in housekeeper with sex on the side, you working doesn’t mean he should do 100% of house related things.

When said live in housekeeper becomes ever so slightly inconvenient you think about leaving him, you also blame him for not working, when you seem to have orchestrated him not being able to work, I hope all your money is shared equally with him, have you been paying into a private pension for him?

OP I'm currently on page 15 and had planned to read the whole thread before responding but there are so many points I want to make and am worried I'll forget then as I read, so apologies if lots of this gets covered in the last 5 pages.

First of all, this situation is incredibly familiar to me. I am also self employed in deadline driven work, was living abroad, and was with an "adorable dosser".

You mention that you keep wanting to change country "every 5 minutes" and allude to Pete being great in response to that, but then you talk about how you were in the UK and then moved to where you are now - have you actually been living in various countries or is this your first move abroad? Theres something about the swinging between different countries and going out with an "adorable dosser" - it really resonates with me but I dont have the psychological awareness to explain to you why I think these two aspects are linked. An aversion to a kind of stability, a fear of something deeper. Not sure.

As a self employed woman, you will know that there is plenty Pete could have been getting on with in terms of his business. I dont buy this ".....and then the pandemic hit so he was unable to do anything the poor dear". Is he a maker? If so, has he been making? Is he a reseller? If so that's a little harder, granted.

Theres probably a lot Pete could have done to be pulling his financial weight. He could have set himself up doing cleaning locally, or since you say you live remotely, he could have set himself up doing jobs and shops and stuff for people who found themselves isolated or whatever during the pandemic. I dont know, o dont know what your location is, but you get my point. The point is he didnt want to work. But you on the other hand are firing the computer up from the moment you get up. I remember that well.

I think a lot of posters joking about how they'll have Pete and he sounds lovely might not really get just how frustrating and lonely it feels to basically be the only person carrying a relationship through. It's great that Pete does stuff like organise those bike rides. My dosser was lovely but didnt have the gumption to do that kind of stuff so fair play to Pete. But I'm pretty sure that if an older man had taken me off to a (presumably, on paper?) beautiful country and had bought me a house, was paying the bills, and was handling clean up and repairs and decorating, the least I could do would be cook the dinner and organise a bike ride every now and then. I think you're giving him too much credit for doing the bare minimum. Anybody would and should do it.

The worst part for me is that hes not getting involved in doing up the house. I dont really give a shit whether DIY is his thing or not. Maybe working 9 hours a day on your computer isnt your thing either, but you do it. Presumably he knew that there would be SOME amount of elbow grease required when you had the plan of moving abroad and doing this in the first place.

I'm not team Pete, I think he may be nice but he's lazy and he ISNT considerate when he let's you work AND sort out the house, alone. I think hes a taker and you will find another man out there who also likes films and can cook.

I'm not Team John either.

I'm team you moving back to the UK, and moving in alone somewhere with a more alternative feel - Brighton maybe or Hebden Bridge. Get your own place and get into therapy. Tell Pete he is more than welcome to move back with you but he needs to get his own place and sort out his financial arrangements. Once he has done that you can consider moving back in together.

You sound lovely. But I do think, as I once did, you are using a sense of whimsy and humour to mask that you probably feel a little scared, alone, and possibly even resentful.

Right! Will continue reading the thread now! Xxx

Have you spoken to Pete about being a homeowner? Your OP honestly sounds like you're just trying to find a problem with him.

The bottom line @KormasABitch is that you see/ saw John as a way out of your marriage, which has been frustrating owing to your differences.

If John had stayed married, I doubt you would have had these thoughts and considered ending your marriage.

You saw him as someone you could switch to as another partner, giving you what Pete can't.

I know you deny it, but I get the feeling you had an emotional affair with John even if you don't see it like that- supporting him through his breakup. You clearly are sexually attracted to him so I suspect it wasn't really platonic even though you didn't act on it.

I still think you need counselling in real life because there is a huge difference between writing stuff to anons and talking face to face to someone , because just 'hearing yourself' articulate these emotions is very different.

I appreciate that the house sale has not focused your thoughts and given you hope, but from what you have said, you and your H are very different people. I suspect your doubts may arise again - so my advice , still, is you need to talk to someone!

@SimonJT

So you decided to move to a country where Pete can’t work, you then moan he can’t renovate a house (well no shit if he isn’t a tradey), he does all the housework, cooking etc and is essentially the live in housekeeper with sex on the side, you working doesn’t mean he should do 100% of house related things.

When said live in housekeeper becomes ever so slightly inconvenient you think about leaving him, you also blame him for not working, when you seem to have orchestrated him not being able to work, I hope all your money is shared equally with him, have you been paying into a private pension for him?

@SimonJT Well, we both decided to move here. (With the benefit of hindsight, was a bit of a rash decision. But we live and learn!)

He doesn't do all the housework. I do things like laundry, cleaning the bathrooms, etc.

I wasn't moaning he can't renovate a house. I was moaning that when there were things to be done, like clearing rubbish from the basement, decorating, etc, that we could tackle, he left it to me while he played computer games.

I'm not sure what you mean by sharing money equally with him. He has all my bank cards in his wallet, I can't even remember the pin codes on a couple of them!

So far there has been no spare money to pay into any kind of private pension for myself or him, but I do pay for his health insurance etc. He'd obviously get half of all the dosh if anything happened. But it won't, because the crisis has been averted.

Bit baffled as to why you think I'd "orchestrate" him being unable to work! I hope I wield that kind of power and can "orchestrate" him in the opposite direction one day 😉

you are using a sense of whimsy and humour to mask that you probably feel a little scared, alone, and possibly even resentful.

I do agree that your style of responding is perhaps masking deeper emotions that need exploring with a professional.

You've been very quick to turn round your feelings- a day or so online?- whereas some of the issues you have in your marriage run very deep. (One person carrying the can for the finances, one sitting back, very big age gap, different values perhaps)

These aren't going to go away simply by upping and moving. You'll carry them with you, wherever you live.

I'm wondering if you are a writer, simply by your tone of posting?

Humour is great, but it often masks something people are afraid of owning. All the great comedians had deep issues - Tony Hancock for example- and I see you from your posts as someone who is great with the repartee, but maybe not really dealing with some deep emotions and looking for a quick fix.

On page 19 now OP, and you've just mentioned "resentment" and "friends in Brighton".

😶

I would say those are massive coincidences and you should listen to my post because I know where you're coming from and have been there and can picture you quite well.

By the way, over the years, what has John said about Pete and your relationship?

So far there has been no spare money to pay into any kind of private pension for myself or him, but I do pay for his health insurance etc

Good grief.

So when you stop work, how w ill you live?
Have you reached 60+ ish with no money except the state pension (if you even qualify for that, having lived overseas for some time.)

Does he contribute anything financially? Or has he ever?

@SimonJT

Did you miss the part where Pete couldn't be bothered to clear out a room? Like you need to be a professional builder to do that

We've had a pandemic that has "prevented him working" for a year and a half now. I'm surprised he hasnt been taking online courses or watching tutorials to learn how to do some of the DIY and house stuff. He's had a year and a half to make learning this his project.

@SorryWoman, wow, you are the first person to REALLY get this situation. I'm so grateful for your post.

Yes, that's it's exactly. I have felt very scared, and alone.

He's a reseller. Living in a leaky house made it difficult because electronic components are involved, so it got put on hold for a while. To get things going again, we'd need to invest in it, and first there was all the renovation costs and then COVID etc -- this is not a great time for getting an online business back off the ground.

We live in a remote rural location (non-UK) place where the only work available is hard agricultural labour that would earn him what I could easily make in an hour. It doesn't make sense for him to break his back doing that when it's more helpful for him to make dinner!

My resentments about DIY are mostly historical. He is much more helpful now. I think he just didn't really get it, that this place is OURS. He's only rented in the past. I think he gets it now.

I've been with dossers too, and honestly he's different. Given the option, he enjoys being lazy, but when things need doing he's properly on it. (Well, "tomorrow" he is! But he makes a good job of things!)

Funnily enough, I had 15 years living in Brighton. Loved it, but couldn't go back to city life now.

I wish you luck ploughing your way through the rest of the thread and admire your patience. Look forward to your thoughts later. XXX

@whatkindofdaughter Thanks for your thoughtful post.

I know you deny it, but I get the feeling you had an emotional affair with John even if you don't see it like that- supporting him through his breakup. You clearly are sexually attracted to him so I suspect it wasn't really platonic even though you didn't act on it.
Funnily enough, honestly, despite the ancient crush on him, I didn't have that "emotional affair" feeling about it at all, literally until the past couple of weeks! In fact there have been times over the years when we've shared a bed (circumstances beyond our control, not "orchestrated") and just slept soundly side by side without batting an eyelid (foot to head).

@whatkindofdaughter
These aren't going to go away simply by upping and moving. You'll carry them with you, wherever you live.
You're right.

I'm wondering if you are a writer, simply by your tone of posting?
I'm writing a book (not about this!). I suppose I'd like more time for that, instead of working all the bloody time.

Humour is great, but it often masks something people are afraid of owning.
Yes. Mine is fear, mainly, I think!!!

Just read your last post. 💐💐💐

You could live further out than Brighton, Saltdean or Hastings. Anyway that's not the point I know :)

Listen, he COULD work, there is agricultural labour you say. Back breaking, okay, but he's in his 40s and it would be temporary. And it DOES make sense actually because okay, you would have to cook the dinner, but it would free up th money you spend on his health insurance to put into your pension. OP, you know where I stand on this. I think you are worth much more than this and you have fallen for the idea that you should be grateful for basic kindness. Have some confidence in yourself. You're a successfully self employed woman with a lot of get up and go and courage.

Why on earth are you with a man who sounds such hard work?

You've been together (married) for a long time. What's changed now?

Every post you write ends up defending him and his behaviour.

I don't have time to read your 'novel', sorry, but you just seem deeply incompatible.

'John' has awakened some deep needs in you which you have buried I think, for years. Now, age and the prospect of a replacement for Pete, has given you a jolt.

I can see how it' s easy when you were younger to drift along with a hippy-ish lifestyle, but then reality sets in as you get older.

I think you need to start professional therapy where you explore your values, and what you want out of life now, given the worries over finances.

You have no private pensions - nothing from years ago waiting to be cashed in, either?

How will you be able to stop work? Will Pete have to step up and be the breadwinner?

Gosh thanks for your posts. I really must crack on with work, which is annoying as I'd much rather spend time on here responding. I'll get back later. Thank you! x