Lovely husband versus different life with friend – what to do?

[KormasABitch]

Apologies for the long post, I will try not to dripfeed.

I have a lovely husband, let’s call him Pete. We’ve been together almost a decade. He’s devoted to me, endlessly kind; nothing is too much trouble. A few years ago, we moved to a country where, unfortunately, he can’t get work (I’m OK as I work online). We’re planning to move elsewhere. In the meantime, he does all the shopping and cooking, chops wood for the fire, etc. We get on brilliantly and have none of the irritations I associate even with close friendships. We have the same tastes in music, films etc and often enjoy lovely weekends away doing things together like hiking or cycling. We never get bored with each other’s company.

Pete’s quite a bit younger than me, which hasn’t worried us over the years because as far as we’re concerned, being incredibly compatible is so lucky that it outweighs everything. However, one snag is our difference in life experience. He’s used to renting a place, and I’m not sure he’ll ever be what I’d call a responsible home owner. General maintenance etc doesn’t seem to occur to him, and I don’t want to be a nag, but find the overall neglect depressing when I’m so busy. He covers the basics, but anything else is a bit like pushing water uphill.

None of this might have mattered had it not been for life throwing me a curve ball.

My oldest friend, “John” (we’ve known each other 20-odd years), got divorced a couple of years ago. I helped him through the emotional process. We’ve always been close (despite him living in another country), but I suppose that brought us a bit closer for a while. I never thought much of it when he left his wife, but over the past couple of years we have exchanged friendly (not flirtatious!) messages and sometimes I find myself pining for the kind of life I could have with him. Over the years, we’ve had some great adventures together (when married to other people, so we never acknowledged or acted on the chemistry that was there), we have a good laugh, we understand each other well, and we have the same values. Pete, for example, can’t be bothered with family and I wish he made more effort to know my parents, who won’t be around for much longer; whereas I know John would connect well.

I am approaching retirement age and financial security has become more important to me than it once was. I hate to admit it, but combining forces with someone who has worked as hard as me is also appealing.

This is all churning round and round in my head, and I feel ridiculous. I don’t want to discuss it with anyone IRL, but would appreciate any input here. I hate feeling even a smidgen of disloyalty to Pete, because I adore him. It feels as though my priorities in life might be shifting somewhat, but maybe I’m just doing that “grass greener” thing and should just STFU.

yikes. Certainly not my cue for any such thing

@MareofBeasttown

Korma, in the nicest possible way, you need counselling. You are constructing this elaborate fantasy about a man who already has a girlfriend,and whom I can guarantee is not constructing fantasies about you. You are imagining things. Meanwhile Pete is the one cleaning up the messy bed. Get back into the now!

Expat life can mess with your head- I should know- and so can the pandemic.

I agree with this.

To everyone who has urged me to talk to a counsellor, I appreciate your concern but I’m not going to. There is no way I’m paying someone to listen to my shit when I can work it out for myself

A counsellor worth his or her salt doesn't just 'listen to your shit' and there is no way on earth that you can do for yourself the analysis of behaviour patterns and unconscious beliefs and assumptions they can.

For instance, that in your long post of 10.00 bases an awful lot on your interpretation of things that didn't happen moments you dub 'significant' but in which nothing was actually said, a drunken message exchange on a night of heightened football emotion which referenced a place where you suddenly had an urge to try to seduce the still-married John in the past but didn't, silences which might have meant something, sex that didn't happen but which, if it had, might have 'proven' whether you were more than friends (which I don't think is remotely true it's perfectly possible to have sex as a once-off with a friend without it necessarily meaning anything other than you were both horny/sentimental at the same moment, and you can have mind-blowing sex with people to whom you are completely unsuited.)

But I think a key factor in it was hearing a kind of yearning in John’s messages. I thought, This dear man, who has worked so hard and given so much to everyone else, deserves every happiness in life. And I believe I’d complete the picture for him. I don’t think this is delusional.

A lot of people are permanently 'yearning', never entirely satisfied with what they have -- it's not necessarily an indication that you are the sole missing factor to his happiness.

I mean, it's one possible interpretation, but so is 'John thinks it makes him sound more interesting to hint at a secret unhappiness', 'John likes the idea that his less conventional friend is his one that got away/is carrying a torch for him all these years/is not-so-secretly yearning for him in her marriage to someone he considers a loser'.

But what strikes me most is that none of this seems to come directly from your own emotions -- it's all about John, John's unhappy former marriage, John's yearning, John deserving happiness.

Also, are you serious in comparing Pete to the violently misogynistic, drunk, intermittently violent Bukowski?

The more I hear about John the more he sounds pretty awful tbh. That's not too say that Pete is a perfect Peter but the idea that fucking john in a tent would illuminate anything other than how skanky the two of you could have been is a bit hard to take.

It sounds more and more to me as though you embarked on an emotional affair with John and were a contributing factor in their unhappy marriage.

I cannot imagine being on holiday with a couple I was friendly with, noting some marital discord and encouraging more. The story you have told yourself about a perfect day sounds exactly the opposite.

I think the fact that you recall this as a perfect day suggests you really do require counselling/therapy. You seem wrapped up in so many contradictions and I think you'd really benefit from having them all unwound and maybe achieving some clarity.

I have a very close friend who sounds a bit like you. She is also incredibly good at pretending and ignoring the obvious holes in the floor and water pouring in the ceiling. She would describe one man who seemed quite far from a good match as being perfect, so generous blah de blah and then when it all came tumbling down we discovered that she had been paying for everything, even payments on a big fancy car of his so he could pretend he wasn't a total waster. She would also benefit from therapy but refuses it.

@MiddleParking

John sounds like an unfaithful opportunistic sleazebag, not a dear man who’s given so much to everyone. No, it wouldn’t have been better to just shag him while he was married. What was he even doing going on ‘the perfect day trip’ with you when he was having a bad time with his wife? Let alone then suggesting you spend the night together. And now he’s on holiday with his girlfriend (quite the drip feed - you’d love it if he introduced you to a partner, oh look, he’s actually got one who you don’t seem to think counts) getting drunk and flirting with you via text? He sounds like he could offer a woman a lot of things and ‘security’ absolutely isn’t one of them. All this navel gazing on both of your parts is totally disrespectful to your respective relationships. I feel really sorry for your husband, I’d be absolutely heartbroken if mine was behaving how you both are.

Totally agree with this.

@MiddleParking

yikes. Certainly not my cue for any such thing

Your loss. Most people, I think you'll find, would leap at the chance of an affair with me, whatever their personal circumstances!!!!!!

Perhaps that’s part of the problem.

@CatherineAragon

Perhaps that’s part of the problem.

I was joking, but never mind...

Totally get what you're saying about the sleazebagness.

@whichwayisup
It sounds more and more to me as though you embarked on an emotional affair with John and were a contributing factor in their unhappy marriage.
I cannot imagine being on holiday with a couple I was friendly with, noting some marital discord and encouraging more

No, I lived in another country. That particular visit was the first time I'd seen him face to face in years. I wasn't a factor in their marital problems.

But living in a different country doesn't stop you from texting him while he's on holiday with his gf?

...and I don't see how I added to them, just by listening to my oldest friend, and then driving back!

@whichwayisup

But living in a different country doesn't stop you from texting him while he's on holiday with his gf?

He's my oldest friend. We have known each other for half my adult life. I had not considered him as a threat to what I have with Pete, or me as a threat to anything he has going on in his life, until that wobble about my financial security. And now I'm clear in my head what that was about. So, job done.

Re Bukowski, no, sorry, I should have specified. Just that dark humour.

But korma one minute you are saying that you had a perfect day which included a tent proposition which was full of lots of intent and yearning... Now you are saying that it was simply a wee day out with an old friend. And actually, while we're on it... You said originally that you had been friends for just over 20 years, not half your adult life if you are over 60. You've got 20 years on me and I've got older friends than you and John. You've met John in your 40s or very late 30s. Where are all your pre John friends?

All this navel gazing on both of your parts is totally disrespectful to your respective relationships. I feel really sorry for your husband, I’d be absolutely heartbroken if mine was behaving how you both are.

It was this bit ^^Middle - seemed to me a misrepresentation of the OP 's "behaviour" as you call it .And John's .

To me the sort of comments (below)from the OP suggest someone trying to work through some feelings by talking to her husband ,bouncing thoughts off posters on here and considering what they've said .

She's wondering why she is having thoughts ,she's not acting on them .Nor is John .

If I was absolutely seriously, seriously considering leaving Pete for John he would most definitely know about it by now! I mean, I did warn him that if John came here and rolled up his sleeves around the place, doing things I've been pushing Pete for, we'd have what you might call a situation on our hands.

I'm just using this thread to explore what John represents and why it is suddenly so important.

I'm struggling with some feelings I didn't expect. This is where MN comes in handy, to work through them.

This might all sound like dripfeeding, but I am working this out as I go along. This is why I posted on here. I don't want to talk to anyone IRL about it, apart from the discussions I'm having with Pete.

But of course people interpret posts differently .And this is a thread on an internet forum ,none of us know the OP or her husband .And even if we did ,would we know what's going on ? I don't think the OP has quite worked that out yewt !

Ok so firstly,

I think the notion of “running away with John” to solve my problems came a bit out of the blue. And it came… from John! Or at least, I think it did. I will try to explain.

The solving of your problems won’t happen from you being or not being with John. Only you can do that, you need to compete the inner work, access counselling as that will help you to put all of this into perspective.

Your happiness is within you, you cannot be reliant on others to bring you happiness.

And then, having gone from chatting to John about how great Pete is, I came back to my desk, where I was slaving away as usual while Pete was in the next room helping to kill the boss and buying people horses and being everyone’s favourite archer (quietly, thank goodness; he wears earphones so as never to disturb me), and I started thinking, Is John right? Do I just trick myself into thinking I’m happy by overlooking essential components, a bit like me not really noticing this house had no roof until we moved in? And then being happy to live with water running down the walls, when normal people don’t do this sort of thing?!?!??!?!

A roof, a normal person?? What even is the definition of normal? You have a very eskew way of viewing situations. You either get on with what you have been dealt, as in no roof, and make it good, or not. But yay isn’t a marker of your happiness!

But I think a key factor in it was hearing a kind of yearning in John’s messages. I thought, This dear man, who has worked so hard and given so much to everyone else, deserves every happiness in life. And I believe I’d complete the picture for him. I don’t think this is delusional.

Sorry but I think you are wrong here. Some men, and obviously I don’t know John, don’t have the ability to read between the lines in messages. Maybe he was holding back as he had a girlfriend, and if he was then fair play to him.
But maybe he is just being a chap and responding to texts that you send as he sees fit, no insight, no yearning for anything different (you) in his life.

And setting aside current practical considerations, Pete and I consider our emotional relationship the greatest achievement of our lives. So I am going to wait and see what happens in the next country.

Well how very gracious of you OP because actually, your emotional connection with Pete really isn’t all that if you are thinking so deeply about another man is it.

Do the decent thing and take some time out, sort your head out and either opt to stay with Pete and forget about limerance chap, or end things with Pete, let John live his life and move on.

Yes, I have read the whole thread though I may have missed one or two posts:) I think, OP , you are in real danger of losing Pete. He will sense your yearning for something better. I am inclined to give him a pass about the gaming because as you said, it is the only space that he can speak his own language.

Best move to a place where he and you can both work. Unfortunately, in an expat marriage there are often power imbalances and resentment. I have struggled with them myself though not to the extent that you have. Certainly both partners working is a far better way of life.

Just quickly as I'm busy. I won't have time to read the last few posts just yet.

I don’t think anyone has done anything wrong. Good luck policing your own thoughts and feelings, but don’t try to police mine. This is not Bible Group. This is the MN Relationships thread, where people… explore… doubts about their relationships?

@MiddleParking, you said “the Workless World of Warcraft and Woodcutting sounds like a barrel of laughs” and I don’t apologise for having wondered about it too, when pressed on it.

However, what I’ve come to understand is that I’m actually OK. I might not make sense to other people, but I make sense to myself.

The estate agent is coming in 2 hours’ time and Pete has spent the morning vacuuming, mopping and tidying. The house looks immaculate. The future’s so bright I gotta wear shades 😎

Where are all your pre John friends?

They got lost in the mess of the breakup of my first marriage. It's hard to stay friends with people who knew you as a couple.

OK so quickly! 😊

You said originally that you had been friends for just over 20 years, not half your adult life if you are over 60?
I'm only just over 60. I count my own adult life as starting at ~20. Is that bad maths or bad sociology, or a sign of arrested development, or all three?

access counselling as that will help you to put all of this into perspective
I think I already have. I can save my pennies for cake!!!!!!

you are in real danger of losing Pete. He will sense your yearning for something better
He doesn't "sense" anything, he has his nose shoved in it by me. We have this joke that he puts off things till "tomorrow", but when "tomorrow" comes, it all gets done. I think it's just that difference between leading a deadline-driven life and being more involved in casting spells or whatever they get up to in WoW 😋

Best move to a place where he and you can both work
Well, yes, hurraaaaaaaaaaaaaah! That's our next move.

your emotional connection with Pete really isn’t all that if you are thinking so deeply about another man is it
But I'm not. I'm thinking about what John represents, and why it was so appealing, and whether that matters. And I have my answer.

This all sounds like the plot to the next Jane Green novel.

You sound like you are massively over romanticising a flirtation

He doesn't "sense" anything, he has his nose shoved in it by me. We have this joke that he puts off things till "tomorrow", but when "tomorrow" comes, it all gets done. I think it's just that difference between leading a deadline-driven life and being more involved in casting spells or whatever they get up to in WoW 😋

I really don’t understand what the issue is with Pete. He sounds like a laid back, tolerant, basically good guy. I haven’t trft so don’t know if you have explained why he isn’t able to work in current country.
But if he competes whatever task needs to be done “tomorrow” then I don’t see why you are even mentioning this as a factor?

And I’m not sure that the poster who mentioned Pete sensing your dissatisfaction was referring to Pete’s qualities, more your seeming infatuation with John.

Your loss. Most people, I think you'll find, would leap at the chance of an affair with me, whatever their personal circumstances!!!!!!

Also you said 'Lezza affair' that's really not a nice thing to say is it.

Also I'm not sure this is completely believable.

I think if you had this deep attraction to John then you would've made a move years ago. Maybe on your many weekends away you said about I mean you did say someone would jump at the chance of an affair with you?