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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Lovely husband versus different life with friend – what to do?

718 replies

KormasABitch · 20/07/2021 13:33

Apologies for the long post, I will try not to dripfeed.

I have a lovely husband, let’s call him Pete. We’ve been together almost a decade. He’s devoted to me, endlessly kind; nothing is too much trouble. A few years ago, we moved to a country where, unfortunately, he can’t get work (I’m OK as I work online). We’re planning to move elsewhere. In the meantime, he does all the shopping and cooking, chops wood for the fire, etc. We get on brilliantly and have none of the irritations I associate even with close friendships. We have the same tastes in music, films etc and often enjoy lovely weekends away doing things together like hiking or cycling. We never get bored with each other’s company.

Pete’s quite a bit younger than me, which hasn’t worried us over the years because as far as we’re concerned, being incredibly compatible is so lucky that it outweighs everything. However, one snag is our difference in life experience. He’s used to renting a place, and I’m not sure he’ll ever be what I’d call a responsible home owner. General maintenance etc doesn’t seem to occur to him, and I don’t want to be a nag, but find the overall neglect depressing when I’m so busy. He covers the basics, but anything else is a bit like pushing water uphill.

None of this might have mattered had it not been for life throwing me a curve ball.

My oldest friend, “John” (we’ve known each other 20-odd years), got divorced a couple of years ago. I helped him through the emotional process. We’ve always been close (despite him living in another country), but I suppose that brought us a bit closer for a while. I never thought much of it when he left his wife, but over the past couple of years we have exchanged friendly (not flirtatious!) messages and sometimes I find myself pining for the kind of life I could have with him. Over the years, we’ve had some great adventures together (when married to other people, so we never acknowledged or acted on the chemistry that was there), we have a good laugh, we understand each other well, and we have the same values. Pete, for example, can’t be bothered with family and I wish he made more effort to know my parents, who won’t be around for much longer; whereas I know John would connect well.

I am approaching retirement age and financial security has become more important to me than it once was. I hate to admit it, but combining forces with someone who has worked as hard as me is also appealing.

This is all churning round and round in my head, and I feel ridiculous. I don’t want to discuss it with anyone IRL, but would appreciate any input here. I hate feeling even a smidgen of disloyalty to Pete, because I adore him. It feels as though my priorities in life might be shifting somewhat, but maybe I’m just doing that “grass greener” thing and should just STFU.

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KormasABitch · 21/07/2021 18:53

@PingedThroughTheWall

No, it's a new language for both of us.

Neither of us has a social life, but it's nothing to do with language. We keep ourselves to ourselves. It was the same in the UK

Ah OK, I wondered why you thought it was significant gaming was his only social life as it was a language thing?

No, sorry, what I meant is that it's the only time he speaks his mother tongue (not English). I love listening to it!
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KormasABitch · 21/07/2021 18:54

@PingedThroughTheWall

Have to say I'm increasingly imagining you holed up in a Siberian cabin
I am honestly just beginning to realise how strange we are.

I'm waiting for the question that reveals we are actually Martians 👽

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KormasABitch · 21/07/2021 18:56

@Growtheroses

Op I haven't rtft but it sounds like you are, sensibly, thinking forward in to the future. Its likely that Pete will not be happy in a situation where he can't work for many years ahead (and if he is, that's not particularly a good sign) so things are likely to change even if that doesn't come about by your own actions. And you may want to retire with someone on a par with you economically . I always think relationships have a better chance of succeeding if you are on the same page about money and family. Fwiw I say go for John! Smile
Thank you, @Growtheroses. I was thinking along the same lines (hence this thread), but am increasingly becoming aware that Pete and I inhabit a rather different world than most people, including John. It's easy to overlook that when this is my daily normal.
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Mydogmylife · 21/07/2021 20:54

Based on what you've said so far

Pete lets you be you
John represents what you think you should be.

Huge simplification obviously but maybe what it boils down to.

KormasABitch · 21/07/2021 21:52

@speakout

I think I may know these men.

Pete

There was such an avalanche of messages at the beginning that I never really had time to read through them all.

Just want to thank everyone who took the trouble to post. There are some great points made!

This is bloody brilliant though 🤣😍

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KormasABitch · 21/07/2021 22:02

@Mydogmylife

Based on what you've said so far

Pete lets you be you
John represents what you think you should be.

Huge simplification obviously but maybe what it boils down to.

Yes, I think you might have something there @Mydogmylife.

Re: what I think I should be, I suppose it goes hand in hand with that "Oh shit!!!" realisation. Should I have been more sensible, etc.

Can't teach an old dog new tricks though, eh! If I was ever going to be sensible, you'd think I'd have managed it by now. Pete loves this spontaneous aspect of me though, he doesn't patronise me for it like other people often do and as I suspect even John might (crazy Korma's gone and done it again!).

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whatkindofdaughter · 22/07/2021 08:49

Invest in some real life counselling maybe @KormasABitch ?

Relate offer it by phone and email so you have no excuse Grin

It's fine talking online with anons, and having a bit of amusing banter.

And it will help BUT IMO you need the immediacy of someone talking to you.

Your head's all over the place here.

Basically, my advice is decide if you want to spend the rest of your life with your H or not. Without hoping he will change.

Forget John- he's a fantasy and his 'differentness' to your H has simply started you to question your H's value (and the pull of something different to your marriage.)

Make a choice on what you have not what you think is another option.

But talk to someone in real life.

CatherineAragon · 22/07/2021 08:58

I think you’re really lucky to have found a man who accepts you for who you are. Someone you have fun with, can talk to, who understands you. He cooks, he’s good at housework and h takes his marriage vows seriously. He’s great at planning trips and he’s fun! To my mind, he just needs a job. Go and live somewhere he can get back to selling on EBay and you can work less. Find a buyer for the ruin.
If you left him I think you would regret it bitterly. As for the other man, you may find he’s very different as a partner than a friend. It’s far too risky and a massive gamble. If you felt you were in love with him that might be different, but you don’t say this.

Whatdirection · 22/07/2021 09:13

Ok....here are my thoughts

Your posts are fulls of contradictions but you know what - that’s ok. Humans are complex creatures and we cause ourselves the most stress when we ‘beat ourselves up’ for feeling two or even three opposing things at the same time.

Pete matches the part of you that needs spontaneity, creativity, fun, impulsiveness AND the part of you that like to be loved, treasured and cared for in small everyday actions.

Both of you sound like free spirits who have found one another. You seem happy in your own bubble away from other irritating humans.

However the down side is that we all age and this will throw up possible situations that need a bit of planning and l think there is another part of you that now has a need for security and stronger financial planning.

You both spontaneously moved to another country and bought a property that maybe in hindsight was overly problematic. In terms of this, you had to put an adult head to deal with builders etc and you were the one who did this while Pete got to still be himself.

The good news is that you still have your property, it will be worth something, no doubt you have improved it and you can use it to fund your next step. Whenever you chose.

Also Pete is younger than you so will have earning capacity when you don’t.

My thoughts about Pete are....he sounds wonderful in many ways and you seem well suited BUT if you hit a real crisis where you needed him to step up in a mature adult way, has he got the capacity to do that? I think the problem with Peter Pan relationships is that life can throw nasty curveballs at us every now and then and it’s at that very very difficult moment, you realise your relationship is not going to give you the support you need.

Only you can answer this. One way to work this out is if you have an issue with him, does he listen without being defensive or dismissive and is he able to make meaningful sustained changes. It sounds like he has taken on board some of the areas you have mentioned to him BUT will he slip back after the initial ‘jolt’?

Also you say many times about being isolated and liking being away from other people. I think you should challenge that strongly held belief.

Try pushing yourself out of your comfort zone and make more connections with the outside world. When you just depend on one other person it does put pressure on the relationship and combined with the pandemic it’s not surprising that you are questioning things.

Good luck xx

KormasABitch · 22/07/2021 10:00

Something occurred to me overnight and this is going to be another long post. Sorry! Medals to anyone who has stuck with me so far and can be arsed reading this.

I think the notion of “running away with John” to solve my problems came a bit out of the blue. And it came… from John! Or at least, I think it did. I will try to explain.

He’s travelling in an exotic country at the moment with his girlfriend (I know, I know!). We exchange friendly texts about what the food is like and day trips and so on. And then just over a week or so ago, he asked me to give him my top 4 ingredients for happiness. I said I’d think about it and he said No! Bam, bam, bam, off the top of your head. He might have been a bit drunk. It was the night of the England match!

Anyway, I listed mine and asked for his, and he was saying financial security is important (one that I had significantly overlooked in favour of “it helps if you enjoy your job”!). He mentioned it as a “can of worms” for me, something along the lines of it’s great if I’m happy but I do have a tendency to never complain about situations. He was being more introspective than usual (pissed?) and said he should be ecstatic with life right now, but isn’t; easy to feel stuck generally, with all the travel restrictions. We agreed it was a pity we couldn’t just get back to somewhere like [MagicPlace] for the day without having to worry about COVID.

Now the trouble with [MagicPlace] is that before I met Pete, when I was single, John and I once had the perfect day trip there. It was one of those days where time seems to expand to fit in so many peak experiences you can’t quite believe there was room for it all to happen in your life, let alone in a single day. I was staying with him and his wife and family, and had noticed some rather obvious cracks in the marriage but not commented on them. On this magical day, later in the afternoon, he quietly told me a few doubts he was having. I listened and supported him as best I could. Later, we had the option to stay overnight in a tent. He left the choice to me. Because of what he’d told me about how unhappy he was, I didn’t trust myself not to throw myself at him in the circumstances, so I said we should drive back instead. He looked at me and said, “OK,” and I don’t think I’m imagining that we said a lot in that silent moment, and that this is the closest we ever got to finding out whether we’re more than just friends. I couldn’t do that to his wife, who I liked very much.

So, back to our recent text exchange on football night. I said it’s not Pete’s fault about work etc etc etc, expressing optimism for the future, and reiterating that he is the key ingredient in my top 4 for happiness. And then the conversation shuffled along and it felt as though a very intense encounter had happened without either of us saying anything obvious. Maybe it’s all in my imagination, but I don’t think so. It was one of those things where you don’t reply right away and keep deleting what you’ve written. I was very careful.

And then, having gone from chatting to John about how great Pete is, I came back to my desk, where I was slaving away as usual while Pete was in the next room helping to kill the boss and buying people horses and being everyone’s favourite archer (quietly, thank goodness; he wears earphones so as never to disturb me), and I started thinking, Is John right? Do I just trick myself into thinking I’m happy by overlooking essential components, a bit like me not really noticing this house had no roof until we moved in? And then being happy to live with water running down the walls, when normal people don’t do this sort of thing?!?!??!?!

And so it was this, if you can imagine it, that set me off into gloomy and rather panicked comparisons. I hope this makes sense.

But I think a key factor in it was hearing a kind of yearning in John’s messages. I thought, This dear man, who has worked so hard and given so much to everyone else, deserves every happiness in life. And I believe I’d complete the picture for him. I don’t think this is delusional.

It was interesting with some of the hostile messages earlier in the thread, saying “You just see how you feel when John introduces you to his fabulous 30-year-old girlfriend” – because you know what?! I’d be so, so, so delighted for him if he found a perfect partner. In fact, from now on, that’s what I will pray for.

I read something the other day about why you can’t just use conductive materials to repair spinal cord injuries. It’s obvious really: it’s a gross oversimplification of the processes involved. I think the notion of switching partners, however logical the reasoning, is a bit like that. There are things that naturally work and things that don’t, and you take for granted the things that naturally work and might not appreciate their complexity.

Looking back, perhaps I should have been purely selfish and spent that night in the tent with him, instead of driving back to his wife. At least we’d have found out, then, if it was a match made in heaven or a train wreck. But we didn’t, and that’s in the past, and I am now married again. And setting aside current practical considerations, Pete and I consider our emotional relationship the greatest achievement of our lives. So I am going to wait and see what happens in the next country. But it is interesting to acknowledge that this is what’s been happening recently.

To everyone who has urged me to talk to a counsellor, I appreciate your concern but I’m not going to. There is no way I’m paying someone to listen to my shit when I can work it out for myself, given time and enough bouncing ideas around. I appreciate I’ll be lucky if I’m left with a handful of dedicated hardcore readers on this thread, especially after this post!

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KormasABitch · 22/07/2021 10:08

@Whatdirection Thank you Flowers for such a thoughtful post!

My thoughts about Pete are....he sounds wonderful in many ways and you seem well suited BUT if you hit a real crisis where you needed him to step up in a mature adult way, has he got the capacity to do that? ... if you have an issue with him, does he listen without being defensive or dismissive and is he able to make meaningful sustained changes.
Ah yes, he's wonderful like that. Honestly. I'm not just kidding myself.

TMI, but just as an example, I was on these antibiotics that gave me explosive diarrhoea and one night I had an accident in bed. He helped clean it up!!!!!! despite my protests!!!! and went out straight away to the pharmacy to ask about what I could take (in a language that's new to him), and came back with the solution, which worked.

We joked at the time that this was excellent practice for the future 🤣

Also another example, I had a dental appointment last week. He drove me there and happily waited outside for nearly an hour. This not at all in a stalkerish controlling way; just to keep me company and save me the bother of parking.

Also you say many times about being isolated and liking being away from other people. I think you should challenge that strongly held belief.
Do I have to? Honestly, I was like this before I met him! 😋

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KormasABitch · 22/07/2021 10:13

Sorry, forgot to answer
if you have an issue with him, does he listen without being defensive or dismissive
Oh god, yes!!! Being defensive is not in his nature. And he is never dismissive. He always gets what I'm saying and why.

Re the current crisis, he says he has been a lazy arse and that needs to change.

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KormasABitch · 22/07/2021 10:28

Since @speakout provided such eloquent images, I thought it might be helpful to share a couple to try and convey key characteristics of "Pete" and "John" (both of which are terribly misleading names) 😎

Pete = bear photo; personality, think Pasha Kovalev + Charles Bukowski hybrid (although I base this purely on Pasha's sweetness on Strictly Come Dancing, the only telly I ever watch; so if there is a general media awareness nowadays that he's a psychopath, I've missed it) 😉

John = dog photo; personality, think Bob the Builder + Peter Kay. But fit. (I mean that literally, not in a sleazebag way.)

Lovely husband versus different life with friend – what to do?
Lovely husband versus different life with friend – what to do?
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MareofBeasttown · 22/07/2021 10:50

Korma, in the nicest possible way, you need counselling. You are constructing this elaborate fantasy about a man who already has a girlfriend,and whom I can guarantee is not constructing fantasies about you. You are imagining things. Meanwhile Pete is the one cleaning up the messy bed. Get back into the now!

Expat life can mess with your head- I should know- and so can the pandemic.

MiddleParking · 22/07/2021 11:01

John sounds like an unfaithful opportunistic sleazebag, not a dear man who’s given so much to everyone. No, it wouldn’t have been better to just shag him while he was married. What was he even doing going on ‘the perfect day trip’ with you when he was having a bad time with his wife? Let alone then suggesting you spend the night together. And now he’s on holiday with his girlfriend (quite the drip feed - you’d love it if he introduced you to a partner, oh look, he’s actually got one who you don’t seem to think counts) getting drunk and flirting with you via text? He sounds like he could offer a woman a lot of things and ‘security’ absolutely isn’t one of them. All this navel gazing on both of your parts is totally disrespectful to your respective relationships. I feel really sorry for your husband, I’d be absolutely heartbroken if mine was behaving how you both are.

peridito · 22/07/2021 11:07

Mare and Middle have you read the whole thread ? Apologies if I've misjudged but your posts sound a bit as though you've not .

KormasABitch · 22/07/2021 11:11

Yes, I suspect COVID madness is not helping. I think the trouble is that he touched a raw nerve.

I make no apologies for having explored, here, whether that “raw nerve” is important or not. In my first marriage, I instantly buried all doubts and chastised myself for having them. I think that can be quite dangerous.

Anyway, I thought the back story might be entertaining to share as it explains how these doubts crept in in the first place! While John is on the holiday of his life with the girl of his dreams!! 😎

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MiddleParking · 22/07/2021 11:13

@peridito

Mare and Middle have you read the whole thread ? Apologies if I've misjudged but your posts sound a bit as though you've not .
Yeah I’ve read it, what made you think I haven’t - lack of cheerleadership? If someone posted about their husband behaving like either John or OP he’d get absolutely slaughtered.
KormasABitch · 22/07/2021 11:13

@peridito

Mare and Middle have you read the whole thread ? Apologies if I've misjudged but your posts sound a bit as though you've not .
Bless you @peridito but that's quite a big ask. If printed and bound, we could sell this thread by the kilo, like War and Peace!
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KormasABitch · 22/07/2021 11:16

I'm not expecting a round of applause.

Life's facts and feelings aren't always convenient and under control. I refuse to whistle and look in the other direction, as I once did.

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Whatdirection · 22/07/2021 11:19

Few thoughts about the Magic Place and Tent Moment. Even if you had given in and had the night together, it would not necessarily have been a defining moment that would have sealed your fate. Because other moments would have come after it. It still might have resulted in a messy, guilty, loose ends situation.

I have a ‘one that got away’ - we shared some passionate moments BUT l was with someone else so when he cryptically asked for a lift to the station from me, l turned him down as l felt guilty. In my heart IF l had done that we might have had the conversation that could have changed everything. It played on my mind for years as he was SO gorgeous.

Also the comment about ‘significantly’ overlooking things. Well we all have our own values and have to live with them. You didn’t notice the hole in the roof but could live with the consequences. I know someone who always get in a muddle and mess with travel plans. It’s so stressful listening to how she got lost and the planes she’s nearly missed. BUT she HATES map reading and travel admin and if l try to make her do it, she just shuts down. So for her, she would rather choose to live with the travel chaos rather than be organised. Her life, her decision. Just because l couldn’t live like that doesn’t mean she is wrong.

I think that John looks at the way you have led your life and sees your impulsiveness as a problem as he knows he couldn’t live like that even though he might find it an attractive feature in you.

I think your ponderings are a search for acceptance for the real you with all her quirks and contradictions in the light of needing more security as you get older.

The good thing about counselling is it takes you outside of your own head and can put your finger on things that you wouldn’t recognise on your own. So your immediate quandary about these two men really signals a deeper issue going on that actually is nothing to do with the men in your life but something much much bigger.

And that is the relationship you have with yourself.

KormasABitch · 22/07/2021 11:23

@Whatdirection
I think that John looks at the way you have led your life and sees your impulsiveness as a problem as he knows he couldn’t live like that even though he might find it an attractive feature in you.
I think your ponderings are a search for acceptance for the real you with all her quirks and contradictions in the light of needing more security as you get older.

Wow. Now I'm definitely not paying for a counsellor. You just helped a lot! Flowers

I think you're absolutely right. Thank you.

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MiddleParking · 22/07/2021 11:24

I mean, you’ve done a fair bit of whistling and looking in the other direction about the hitherto unacknowledged girlfriend on this thread. And you seem to be doing some pretty loud whistling and looking in the other direction from the marriage vows you chose to make. I just think fuck being the diarrhoea-and-dentist character in your own spouse’s narrative while some other cheating prick gets to be the magic-place character.

tinydancer88 · 22/07/2021 11:29

Who in their right mind would want to be in a relationship with John anyway? Wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him from how you've described him.

KormasABitch · 22/07/2021 11:38

@Whatdirection
What you’ve said is sinking in and it’s just gone click–click–click and made sense of a few things, like my odd feeling that John might patronise me a bit in the same way as my dad and brothers.

I suppose I’ve always had that “youngest child / mad on in the family” thing going on, doubting my own judgement because everyone thinks I’m nuts.

But I do actually have my own reasons for doing things the way I do. Like wanting to be with someone who can deal with my shit (literally!) and actually thinks I’m awesome, unlike most people who stare at me and scratch their heads.

Thank you for helping me make sense of this. I’m so grateful, I could kiss you! Cue rage from MiddleParking that I am now inciting a red-hot lezza fling 🤣

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