Lovely husband versus different life with friend – what to do?

[KormasABitch]

Apologies for the long post, I will try not to dripfeed.

I have a lovely husband, let’s call him Pete. We’ve been together almost a decade. He’s devoted to me, endlessly kind; nothing is too much trouble. A few years ago, we moved to a country where, unfortunately, he can’t get work (I’m OK as I work online). We’re planning to move elsewhere. In the meantime, he does all the shopping and cooking, chops wood for the fire, etc. We get on brilliantly and have none of the irritations I associate even with close friendships. We have the same tastes in music, films etc and often enjoy lovely weekends away doing things together like hiking or cycling. We never get bored with each other’s company.

Pete’s quite a bit younger than me, which hasn’t worried us over the years because as far as we’re concerned, being incredibly compatible is so lucky that it outweighs everything. However, one snag is our difference in life experience. He’s used to renting a place, and I’m not sure he’ll ever be what I’d call a responsible home owner. General maintenance etc doesn’t seem to occur to him, and I don’t want to be a nag, but find the overall neglect depressing when I’m so busy. He covers the basics, but anything else is a bit like pushing water uphill.

None of this might have mattered had it not been for life throwing me a curve ball.

My oldest friend, “John” (we’ve known each other 20-odd years), got divorced a couple of years ago. I helped him through the emotional process. We’ve always been close (despite him living in another country), but I suppose that brought us a bit closer for a while. I never thought much of it when he left his wife, but over the past couple of years we have exchanged friendly (not flirtatious!) messages and sometimes I find myself pining for the kind of life I could have with him. Over the years, we’ve had some great adventures together (when married to other people, so we never acknowledged or acted on the chemistry that was there), we have a good laugh, we understand each other well, and we have the same values. Pete, for example, can’t be bothered with family and I wish he made more effort to know my parents, who won’t be around for much longer; whereas I know John would connect well.

I am approaching retirement age and financial security has become more important to me than it once was. I hate to admit it, but combining forces with someone who has worked as hard as me is also appealing.

This is all churning round and round in my head, and I feel ridiculous. I don’t want to discuss it with anyone IRL, but would appreciate any input here. I hate feeling even a smidgen of disloyalty to Pete, because I adore him. It feels as though my priorities in life might be shifting somewhat, but maybe I’m just doing that “grass greener” thing and should just STFU.

This is a bit like sex in the city. I feel like John is Mr big and Pete is Aidan

@Comedycook

This is a bit like sex in the city. I feel like John is Mr big and Pete is Aidan

Yes, especially with Pete's love for wood.

OP, I know this is massively over simplifying things but if you could be anywhere in the world right now and money/house stuff and wood chopping wasn't an issue who would choose to be there with Pete or John?

if Pete and John had a fight, who would you want to win

@Branleuse

if Pete and John had a fight, who would you want to win

Brutal, Branleuse, I like your style 😎 that will sort the wheat from the chaff, eh!

It wouldn't get as far as either of them winning because I would tip buckets of icy water over them, and if that didn't work I'd get out the frying pan.

Let's hope we never have to find out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@Miniestelle

OP, I know this is massively over simplifying things but if you could be anywhere in the world right now and money/house stuff and wood chopping wasn't an issue who would choose to be there with Pete or John?

It depends what I was doing!

If I was visiting family, John.
If I was at a music festival, Pete.
If I was exploring a new place, hard to say. It would be different, both fun.

Good question!

Ahhh!!! but -- the crucial answer, which has just occurred to me, is:

If making a new start in a foreign country -- PETE. Hands down.

Phew!!

So if I will insist on moving countries every 5 minutes, that kind of settles the matter.

Been following this and you do sound like you have an extremely interesting set up there OP. My take on it (shoot me down!):

• you say you've always been slightly unconventional vs other family members (evidenced here by a number of points!)
• you're getting older and the financial situation has jolted you into a genuine Oh Shit moment.
• what's interesting is that your response to the Oh Shit moment is to look around at the men in your life as being part of the solution? Pete - potentially discounted now as not part of the solution; John - many cons as pointed out by PP but could he solve your problems? Dad and brother - if only you'd been more conventional like them, you wouldn't have had an Oh Shit moment.

Also what strikes me is the marriage dynamic is unusually independent. This is why PP are referring to it as a mother/son dynamic. It's your financial Oh Shit moment, it's not a joint one between the two of you. The talk of your retirement, you have the mental load for thinking about your joint lives together and Pete is not really an equal partner in that thought process. Even your description of how you ended up moving to a country where he couldn't work, there's not a lot of "we really screwed up" it's your mess. That's why people are picking up on it sounding unbalanced and unequal.

And you're using humour to great effect throughout but I suspect you're using it to conceal deep down a realisation of Oh Shit.

This definitely has nothing to do with John, and I think only a little bit, regarding your marriage dynamic, to do with Pete. The bulk of the way you're feeling is wrestling with the reality of the future, your own changing identity with age, and what do you want life to be like in 10, 20 years.

Agree with PP that individual therapy to unpick this and a bunch of other stuff you've said around not deserving to be treated well etc would probably be helpful.

@PingedThroughTheWall, I think for a really perceptive comment there, thanks.

Yes. Oh shit!!! Now I see what people meant when they talked about planning ahead, etc.

That "MY problem / not OUR problem" thing is really important. I hadn't considered this before, but you've nailed it.

When we lived in the UK, me being so much older and more established meant that he came to live at my house, from a rented place, so it was my house we sold up to come here. In that sense, I consider it my own foolhardiness that I didn't think a bit more about where we were going. (I think I've learned my lesson!)

He worked and contributed in the UK, in fact he did quite well. He became a top-rated eBay seller, working from a chicken coop 🤩 and the plan was that out here, we'd have more space for him to expand.

I think it was important for us to set up home together. It's been a massive project and although I moan about him not doing more, we have at least got on like a house on fire throughout a few years that I suppose many couples would have found a strain.

Unfortunately the imbalance of earning potential has resulted in a similar situation to the one we had in the UK.

Better luck next time I hope! This time we won't just chuck a pin in the map. We are actually planning to rent first. Imagine being so sensible.

I'm glad (hopefully) it was helpful.

In that sense, I consider it my own foolhardiness that I didn't think a bit more about where we were going but surely you both decided to move, you both decided to sell the marital assets and take a risk?
And it's both your retirements you're talking about here, if one day you'll hopefully be in your 80s and he'll hopefully be in his late 60s?
I think you need to welcome him into the world of Oh Shit, and figure out a plan together.

I think you're right.

So far, the risk has been all mine.

Just thinking about this, I'm not sure how to get Pete on board with it. He doesn't care if he walks away with nothing.

I suppose that's quite a scary prospect for me, and that's what feels safer about John, looking ahead.

Maybe things will change when Pete becomes a millionaire 😍

I think you are romanticising in your head, OP.

You've said the you can help John's young adult children weather the storm of their parent's divorce.

You've said that John 'supported' his wife through 4 pregnancies.

Sorry to say that young adults won't want or need you.. they'll probably be more worried about you honing in on their inheritance 😂😂😂

Also 'supporting through 4
Pregnancies ' - quite a lot of 'wife-blaming' going on there... poor John, did these babies just keep happening to him?

I think you're bored with Pete (I would be too).

I think you owe it to Pete to leave him to find someone who likes gaming.

And I think you should start back out on your own and see what the world in general has to offer. I'm afraid roving eye, pregnancy magnet John probably has a 30'year old in his sights.

This is my point though.

In your head, you're still separate.

You sold your house, you took a risk, you are paying for the house renovations.

But you're married, so actually everything is half his?

So the Oh Shit is half his Oh Shit as well.

Right now you're doing all the thinking, and worrying, and that might be because you've always done it or because he doesn't want to, or a combination.

But you're both in the financial shit together, and you need to figure it out together, as equal married partners.

I think you've got to the core of the issue here, @PingedThroughTheWall.

I've tried to explain how it all works when you've invested your life's efforts into a property, and how important it then becomes to look after it, so that you get your investment back (etc). I've tried to emphasise that this is OUR house and home ownership comes with responsibilities.

He gets it in theory, but it's a bit like trying to interest a cat in a wiggly piece of string.

Playing devil's advocate I can see how it's been tricky for him to feel ownership if you've been leading all the way on the sale of the old house ("your" house), choosing the destination and buying the new place.

The good news is you're moving again so you have another chance now to make it work. But you will need to step back and he will need to step up to own elements of that process for him to feel like it's his too.

And if that's not working, or you don't have the patience to do that, then there's your answer.

@KormasABitch

Just thinking about this, I'm not sure how to get Pete on board with it. He doesn't care if he walks away with nothing.

I suppose that's quite a scary prospect for me, and that's what feels safer about John, looking ahead.

Maybe things will change when Pete becomes a millionaire 😍

@KormasABitch, you really, really need to talk to a therapist and to say it all out loud. Your posts are swinging all over the place as each poster presents you with a new thought. Not so many posts ago you were 'it's definitely Pete'.

The problem is that that as your priorities are changing you're looking at things through a different lens. It seems to me that what you really want is Pete+, Pete but different. You're building your ideas on moving somewhere else, Pete getting a good job and being able to make sure you have financial security in your retirement. What if that didn't happen? Do the good things about him still outweigh the things you're having second thoughts about?

You only started this thread yesterday. The replies have given you a lot of food for thought and a lot of different perspectives, but it's not something you decide in a couple of days. Please take the time to talk to someone in a safe space where you can say exactly what you're thinking.

If you still wish after that, you could move and see how things work out and then see how you feel. Does Pete step up to the plate, or does he procrastinate, still spend his time on the phone/tablet/computer? I think you'll get a feel for his position on that pretty soon after you move.

OP, I hope you and Pete have had a lovely day. What is he doing for tea? If it's curry again please can you chuck some my way?

@PingedThroughTheWall

Playing devil's advocate I can see how it's been tricky for him to feel ownership if you've been leading all the way on the sale of the old house ("your" house), choosing the destination and buying the new place.

The good news is you're moving again so you have another chance now to make it work. But you will need to step back and he will need to step up to own elements of that process for him to feel like it's his too.

And if that's not working, or you don't have the patience to do that, then there's your answer.

Oh wise one! So true.

We did plan the move here together.

Well, I say "plan" ... I can't quite bring myself to confess to what our "detailed planning" looked like 🤪 but it was certainly a joint process.

Hopefully the resulting mayhem has been a learning curve for us both, and we can tackle our next move with all the benefit of hindsight!

Thanks so much for your comments, very helpful indeed.

He gets it in theory, but it's a bit like trying to interest a cat in a wiggly piece of string.

We're back to the 'Pete the Pet' thing here again.

OP, it's really significant that you misunderstood what @PingedThroughTheWall meant in her post of 15.46 -- you thought she was talking about the risk all being yours, when in fact she meant that you were talking in terms of 'you' as an individual and your ownership of your assets and decisions, not that all risks were shared. It doesn't sound in your gut you feel Pete is fully an equal partner.

Has it occurred to you that he might be deliberately refusing to get involved in house renovations etc, leaving garden tools out, and in saying he only wants a couple of months rent if you part, not half the value of your house, as a (possibly unconscious) way of demonstrating that he doesn't feel like an equal partner?

Or maybe that he doesn't want to be, because your idea of 'partnership' and 'adulthood' is strongly bound up in financial security and house ownership, and that's not something that interests him?

@Feedingthebirds1 it might look as though I'm swinging like a pendulum, but actually it feels like I'm getting a grip on just what's missing here and why it's important. @PingedThroughTheWall deserves a special medal for her part in this. I think the way forward is pretty clear. I'm talking about the allure of "John" (because let's face it, it's what he represents in my dreams that is appealing) as a kind of counterpoint to my current situation. Bit hard to explain.

@Miniestelle, thank you He has spent the whole day vacuuming, scrubbing floors and tidying. Better late than never! And he made so much curry yesterday that there's half left for dinner tonight. And it always tastes even better the next day.

@PleasurePrinciple
I'll have a good think about that. Thanks!

Getting the wrong end of the stick is always an alarming pointer to areas of unconscious chaos.

I feel so invested in this.

@PleasurePrinciple
OK I've had a think...
Or maybe that he doesn't want to be, because your idea of 'partnership' and 'adulthood' is strongly bound up in financial security and house ownership, and that's not something that interests him?
I think this might be what's been confusing me. It's great to be able to put my finger on it, thank you.

So I just went to ask him, you know, in an ideal world, what his preference would be: just rent a place with no commitments, or buy another place together, with all the associated responsibilities (meaningful emphasis)?

He'd like us to buy a place together. But we're on the same page: somewhere smaller and easier to look after, somewhere he doesn't have to fell a forest every other week (long story but true!).

So that's cleared that up, and it's an enormous help. Thank you