Lovely husband versus different life with friend – what to do?

[KormasABitch]

Apologies for the long post, I will try not to dripfeed.

I have a lovely husband, let’s call him Pete. We’ve been together almost a decade. He’s devoted to me, endlessly kind; nothing is too much trouble. A few years ago, we moved to a country where, unfortunately, he can’t get work (I’m OK as I work online). We’re planning to move elsewhere. In the meantime, he does all the shopping and cooking, chops wood for the fire, etc. We get on brilliantly and have none of the irritations I associate even with close friendships. We have the same tastes in music, films etc and often enjoy lovely weekends away doing things together like hiking or cycling. We never get bored with each other’s company.

Pete’s quite a bit younger than me, which hasn’t worried us over the years because as far as we’re concerned, being incredibly compatible is so lucky that it outweighs everything. However, one snag is our difference in life experience. He’s used to renting a place, and I’m not sure he’ll ever be what I’d call a responsible home owner. General maintenance etc doesn’t seem to occur to him, and I don’t want to be a nag, but find the overall neglect depressing when I’m so busy. He covers the basics, but anything else is a bit like pushing water uphill.

None of this might have mattered had it not been for life throwing me a curve ball.

My oldest friend, “John” (we’ve known each other 20-odd years), got divorced a couple of years ago. I helped him through the emotional process. We’ve always been close (despite him living in another country), but I suppose that brought us a bit closer for a while. I never thought much of it when he left his wife, but over the past couple of years we have exchanged friendly (not flirtatious!) messages and sometimes I find myself pining for the kind of life I could have with him. Over the years, we’ve had some great adventures together (when married to other people, so we never acknowledged or acted on the chemistry that was there), we have a good laugh, we understand each other well, and we have the same values. Pete, for example, can’t be bothered with family and I wish he made more effort to know my parents, who won’t be around for much longer; whereas I know John would connect well.

I am approaching retirement age and financial security has become more important to me than it once was. I hate to admit it, but combining forces with someone who has worked as hard as me is also appealing.

This is all churning round and round in my head, and I feel ridiculous. I don’t want to discuss it with anyone IRL, but would appreciate any input here. I hate feeling even a smidgen of disloyalty to Pete, because I adore him. It feels as though my priorities in life might be shifting somewhat, but maybe I’m just doing that “grass greener” thing and should just STFU.

You'd just be that lady who lives with him, who they have to buy a Christmas present for to be polite. Especially if the split is fresh, and very especially if they never saw the split coming.

And you could be standing in the way of any potential inheritance or lump sums for house deposits. That really makes you the family favourite. Not.

@occa

Quite. I wish this had occurred to me sooner!

Oh lord. P'raps you're panicking a bit about money and thinking of cable-knit John as a way out?

Usually on second marriages, especially when there are children involved on one or both sides, finances are kept pretty separate though. If John is near your age and financially sorted then he's probably got his estate planning in place already and lots of his assets will be locked up.

I think a ménage may be your best option here. D'you reckon Pete would go for it? As long as he gets to pick the music?

This!

Is there a Team Counseling? Team marriage and financial counselling.

Yes, assuming you and John got together instead, and then he died, his kids would claim a huge portion of his estate. And there are four of them. And his ex would make sure they were provided for, and the law would be on her side IIRC, even if he did something daft like write them out of his will.

I reckon your thoughts are being driven by feelings of insecurity, especially financial insecurity. Which is totally valid. But there are so many healthier ways to work through those feelings and thoughts compared with binning your marriage.

@Preech

Would I be right in guessing that there's something like a 15-20 year age gap between you two? Not quite 25 years, but an age gap large enough that you two may have tied the knot when he was, say, in his early or mid 20s and maybe you were in your early or mid 40s? And therefore, he was the laid back "fun" one at an age when you'd expect him to be, and you were too "old" to have children, but still young enough and earning enough to take chances on projects like moving abroad on a whim?

I wonder if you'll get more speaking all of this out with a good therapist, OP. That would be a safer space to examine your own values and the roots of your thoughts, rather than here. A counsellor or a psychologist isn't going to hand over your feelings to the Daily Fail either.

It sounds like your Pete could maybe use someone to talk with too, whether that's through marriage counselling with you, or in sessions on his own. Is it possible he's sinking so much time into WOW lately because he's also deeply unhappy, but trying to avoid working through his feelings?

As for John, and any potential life together ... I am a stepmother myself. In my experience, a lot of kids are wary of new partners, and that wariness grows stronger the older they get. You wouldn't ever be a second mom to John's adult children; their own mother established that bond with them. You wouldn't be supporting John raising them, because they are adults. You'd be "dad's girlfriend" instead. You'd just be that lady who lives with him, who they have to buy a Christmas present for to be polite. Especially if the split is fresh, and very especially if they never saw the split coming.

Thank you so much for your time, Preech, that's a very thoughtful reply.

Yes, the age gap is pretty much what you estimate. Only you can add a decade on to the ages you say we got together and married. We're both Peter Pans I guess.

I think all that has mattered to me since meeting Pete has been the amazement of having someone sincerely love and cherish me. I never expected that in life.

As I approach retirement, other factors are raising their very ugly heads.

Re Pete needing counselling as he may be deeply unhappy, I wish I could beam you into our room right now. You never saw anyone so happy in your life 😍🤩🥰

Re John's kids, I don't have any delusions about stepping into their mum's shoes. Just that they have sneered a bit at his partner choices since, and his kids and I have a really happy/good history together, and I don't think they would sneer at me, so perhaps it might restore him a bit in their eyes. Obviously, maybe not. (Have you noticed I live in a dream world?!)

@occa

Quite. I wish this had occurred to me sooner!

Oh lord. P'raps you're panicking a bit about money and thinking of cable-knit John as a way out?

Usually on second marriages, especially when there are children involved on one or both sides, finances are kept pretty separate though. If John is near your age and financially sorted then he's probably got his estate planning in place already and lots of his assets will be locked up.

I think a ménage may be your best option here. D'you reckon Pete would go for it? As long as he gets to pick the music?

Yes, panic is probably the name of the game. I make no excuses for my poor planning.

I wish John was cable-knit guy! Or Pete! that would make life much easier.

John has set aside a substantial amount for his each of his kids (equally) and paid off a very generous settlement to his ex-wife. What he has now is his. It's a lot less than he used to have, but it's still something, and more importantly, it represents the kind of efforts that I'm not sure Pete will ever be inclined to make.

Re the menage, funnily enough, John had been planning to visit us in the autumn and I made a joke of it to Pete that if he didn't get his arse in gear with helping a bit more, and if John turned up and started pointing at things that needed doing and/or got on with them, I'd just have to copy Pete's music files and skip off into the sunset with John. I was honestly joking at the time!!!!!!!!!! and then somehow over the past fortnight or so, I don't know if I'm joking any more. Hopefully it will all wear off again soon.

I think all that has mattered to me since meeting Pete has been the amazement of having someone sincerely love and cherish me. I never expected that in life.

Okay, I'm not qualified to work through that statement properly with you, but that's definitely the kind of thing a therapist (a good one, and it might take meeting a few to find one you feel comfortable with) can really help you work through. We all deserve to feel sincerely loved and cherished, and we're all entitled to expect that. CBT sessions really helped me in the past when I was wrestling with some really negative core beliefs about myself, and I remembered enough of the lessons to dig them up a few years later when I needed to work through them again.

I wish you well, whatever direction you take.

@Preech

I think all that has mattered to me since meeting Pete has been the amazement of having someone sincerely love and cherish me. I never expected that in life.

Okay, I'm not qualified to work through that statement properly with you, but that's definitely the kind of thing a therapist (a good one, and it might take meeting a few to find one you feel comfortable with) can really help you work through. We all deserve to feel sincerely loved and cherished, and we're all entitled to expect that. CBT sessions really helped me in the past when I was wrestling with some really negative core beliefs about myself, and I remembered enough of the lessons to dig them up a few years later when I needed to work through them again.

I wish you well, whatever direction you take.

Thank you, Preech.

Honestly, before I met Pete, I lived on my own for years and was quite contented not having anyone to ruin things for me.

Then he came along, and made everything better.

I don't know what the answer is but you sound lovely op and lots of fun!

@Miniestelle

Pete is really going down in my estimation. I thought he was chopping wood all the time

Maybe Pete has a rather small chopper and horny John has a large golden toolbox.

@Comedycook

I don't know what the answer is but you sound lovely op and lots of fun!

Thank you @Comedycook, what a lovely comment. I wasn't too popular earlier. I understand the hostility though, a few years back I'd have sold my soul for the tiniest scrap of kindness in a man, so I realise how ungrateful I sound.

@Chikapu

I was originally picturing Pete chopping wood shirtless, barefoot, the top button of his jeans undone, his tanned skin glistening in the sun. Now I'm picturing him sitting in his pants in a darkened room shouting for the Horde at random intervals. My disappointment is palpable.

Snork.

But horny John has  golden  balls.  Or perhaps  that bulge in his pants is a large wallet.

Honestly op - you really seem to have your rose-tinted spectacles on as regards Pete. You say he is lovely and kind and happy - I'd be lovely and kind and happy if someone was looking after me, paying for everything and all I had to do was sit around doing what I wanted!!

Why are you accepting this? Ok, he can't work at the moment, but what's to stop him organising the builders etc and helping in that way?!

Him sitting around playing WoW while you work your arse off is not funny or mildly annoying it's totally fucking lazy and selfish behaviour. As for leaving all his shit lying around and not tidying up after himself...he really is a teenager, isn't he?

Get mad. Tell him he has to step up. His behaviour really is pretty awful.

Pete has this plan for if I get dementia as I age. It involves IT: he would make sure a little film played every morning, when I woke up, to remind me who I am and who he is, and how much he loves me, before he brings in my tea and tells me how much he loves me. 💕 and I know he's not bullshitting me. What price do you put on that.

Pete's clearly watch the film '50 First Dates'.

Please don't take offense OP but why is Pete with you? You sound like the mother he doesn't seem to have and he sounds like the child you've always wanted. Pete doesn't work, he plays video games all day and you don't even make him clean up his room. He makes the odd meal, chops the odd log, does the obligatory cycle with you and chores done he's allowed to read DM and play his video games again. Are you really staying with this manchild because you like his taste in music? It sounds like you two have a mutual arrangement. He is 'around' when required and tells you he doesn't care about your looks, promises to look after you when you get older even though he can't be arsed to do anything now and you provide his housing, pay for his food, pay all the bills, pay to move him abroad, spent your hand earned savings paying to redecorate a ruin that he will take half of in the divorce and presumably give him some sort of allowance? Do you really think so little of yourself OP?

Pete doesn't take an interest in your parents because he probably can't relate to them at all due to their age? You say John would make the effort but your parents are probably John's parent's age and he knows what 'taking care of them' entails. Pete makes you feel young and gives you a sense of power and control over another so you don't feel 'alone' and childless.

John sounds more like an equal but I agree with PP that John could go either way. Either he wants an equal who can help him enjoy his retirement years or he wants a much younger woman who looks good for all his mates.

They both sound ghastly OP. I don't think you and Pete are in love it's more a convenience for you both. John might be a good friend but that's all he'll ever be. Divorce Pete, sell the ruin and move on OP. Book some holidays with John and when John marries his much younger woman I bet you'll meet your Mr. Right on the dance floor at their reception.

Have we now got a name change fail going on ?

Whether we have or not ,my twopennyworth FWIW

I'm not sure you're in touch with your feelings/understand yourself Korma .Another vote here for therapy .

It sounds as though you've been in very unhappy relationships before and understandably were bowled over by Pete's attention and affection .

But I think that although you "adore" him ,you don't respect him .The unequalness of the relationship is getting to you .Adoring eachother is not enough .

I don’t understand why so much wood needs chopping in a country you moved to for sunshine.

John’s kids will never see you as a mum and ‘he stuck with her through four pregnancies’ erm they wanted to be pregnant - they were pregnant together - he didn’t ‘stick’ through them with her what a bizarre way you see John. Like he was hard done by. So what if they married young - there was obviously enough there for them to have four kids together. I feel sorry for Pete.

By the way I haven’t RTFT!

Has this moved from Relationships?

Anyway....@KormasABitch It's really very simple.

You are overthinking all of this.

For whatever reasons - and they seem mainly financial ones- you are having doubts about your husband. He sounds lazy to be honest.

But your choice is over whether to leave him and become single again.

The John temptation is not a reality.

It's areal mistake to try to 'choose' between two men like this.

You have to stop that way of thinking.

If John fell under a bus tomorrow, or found a new woman, your option of a life with him would disappear. As it would if his banter around your being a 'couple' was not serious.

Decide if you want to end your marriage. If necessary have counselling (most are working by Zoom and phone now so you have no excuse.)

If you decide to divorce Pete, then have time on your own, and then see if John is a possible partner.

. Either he wants an equal who can help him enjoy his retirement years or he wants a much younger woman who looks good for all his mates.

I think the reality is that most men in their 60s end up with a new woman roughly the same age. Not someone 30 years younger.

I know several men of that age and although the older man/ younger woman is a cliche, unless you are an ageing rock star, it's not so common in real life over 60.

@KormasABitch

I have found your thread fascinating, you sound lovely

I am married to a 'Pete' and have been for 35 years. My Pete has his head in the sand with massively interesting to him hobbies that have ruled his life! And he's always hated working massively (retired now), he never found his niche with work so basically gave up.

I don't begrudge him the hobbies (although I did when the DCs were young) but sometimes just sometimes I want someone who is the 'driver' in the relationship. Because that's me!

My Pete is the kindest most generous man ever and I know he adores me. But it is wearing to be the proactive organiser in the relationship. Sometimes I have just wanted someone to take charge and do it.

However... this is the bit that's important. It's taken me decades of marriage with ups and downs and occasional wanting the proactive instigator husband, not the Pete I've go.
BUT after all these decades I have realised that I actually like being more in charge than he is! I am imagining being married to someone else who makes the decisions and I just don't think I could cope with it, it's taken me years to realise this.

My Pete is just so easygoing, affable, likeable and adoring!

And I think you should think carefully.... do you actually really want a John because you really might find it doesn't suit you at all.
p.s. I imagine I am similar age to you.

I am only posting here because this thread will disappear!

Good luck

I haven't got anything to add about what you should do, OP. Just wanted to say that it's an interesting thread! And I think the reason you're getting some stick is that you're sounding so pragmatic about it all, and posters are kind of almost offended that you're not just 'going with your heart'. I disagree though. If more women really thought through the pros and cons of men they dated/married like you are, there might be fewer sad or horrible stories on the Relationships board. Fwiw I'm probably team John.

I think the reason you're getting some stick is that you're sounding so pragmatic about it all, and posters are kind of almost offended that you're not just 'going with your heart'. I disagree though. If more women really thought through the pros and cons of men they dated/married like you are, there might be fewer sad or horrible stories on the Relationships board

Absolutely agree with this

I agree it is a choice between Pete with his woodpile and a Peteless single life. I very much doubt that John is interested in you ( sorry). You certainly can't count on leaving Pete and finding John waiting. He may just leave you hanging.

I am still a Pete fan even with the gaming, though I must admit I hate gamers.

@Arrivederla

Honestly op - you really seem to have your rose-tinted spectacles on as regards Pete. You say he is lovely and kind and happy - I'd be lovely and kind and happy if someone was looking after me, paying for everything and all I had to do was sit around doing what I wanted!!

Why are you accepting this? Ok, he can't work at the moment, but what's to stop him organising the builders etc and helping in that way?!

Him sitting around playing WoW while you work your arse off is not funny or mildly annoying it's totally fucking lazy and selfish behaviour. As for leaving all his shit lying around and not tidying up after himself...he really is a teenager, isn't he?

Get mad. Tell him he has to step up. His behaviour really is pretty awful.

Well, he did liaise with the builders. He just couldn't help pay for any of it!

So... What I've told him over the past week or so is:

He needs to make more effort around the place

He should consider how big a part of his life gaming is... There's a difference between it keeping him sane in current circumstances versus it being the equivalent of a permanent part-time job

He needs to let me know how interested he is in the kind of "responsible home owner" lifestyle I'm eagerly awaiting, because if it's not for him I'd rather know sooner than later

All the above said with a nod towards the fact that we find ourselves in odd circumstances just now, and at what is possibly a pivotal age for me...

[quote Roussette]@KormasABitch

I have found your thread fascinating, you sound lovely

I am married to a 'Pete' and have been for 35 years. My Pete has his head in the sand with massively interesting to him hobbies that have ruled his life! And he's always hated working massively (retired now), he never found his niche with work so basically gave up.

I don't begrudge him the hobbies (although I did when the DCs were young) but sometimes just sometimes I want someone who is the 'driver' in the relationship. Because that's me!

My Pete is the kindest most generous man ever and I know he adores me. But it is wearing to be the proactive organiser in the relationship. Sometimes I have just wanted someone to take charge and do it.

However... this is the bit that's important. It's taken me decades of marriage with ups and downs and occasional wanting the proactive instigator husband, not the Pete I've go.
BUT after all these decades I have realised that I actually like being more in charge than he is! I am imagining being married to someone else who makes the decisions and I just don't think I could cope with it, it's taken me years to realise this.

My Pete is just so easygoing, affable, likeable and adoring!

And I think you should think carefully.... do you actually really want a John because you really might find it doesn't suit you at all.
p.s. I imagine I am similar age to you.

I am only posting here because this thread will disappear!

Good luck [/quote]
@Roussette I think you are right! This is just what our situation is, and you are probably right about me being the "driver" too. How interesting.

A case of "be careful what you wish for"!

I have woken up this morning feeling much calmer. I think we just need to get out of here (this country) and make our nest somewhere with more opportunities. Lockdown boredom has probably intensified an already tricky situation.