In a relationship with older man. Want to move in. Can you advise?

[Takeneback]

I’m F, 37 years old, divorced single mother with 4 DC under 7 from previous abusive marriage. I live in London. I have been in a relationship with a man who is 55, widowed, has 3 university age DC who do not live with him but come home for the holidays and he lives an hour away from London by train. We have been together 2.5 years. He has met my DC and I have met his, but it’s been as “friends,” and we have not done overnights with any of the DC around.

I have full custody of my children, I work full time and earn well and the DC spend every other weekend with my dparents and a Nanny. The way our relationship has worked so far is I have been working from home and fitting in school runs and seeing a lot of DC during the day, then DP will come up and stay in a hotel in London and see me 2 days and evenings a week for drinks, dinner and fun (in his hotel.) Then on the weekends where my parents have the DC, I travel down to his and spend the weekend with him.

Since his DW died (5 years ago while his youngest was doing GCSEs) he has not wanted to introduce them to anyone officially until they have properly “flown the nest.” Lockdown, like with many people, has affected our relationship in that his DC came back to live at home through all the lockdowns and have been using it as a base to come and go since then, which has made for a few heated discussions about how I fit in.

I’ve got to the point where I would like us to live together and be together properly. He and I have a holiday booked later in the summer and had agreed to discuss how this might work – emotionally, financially, officially (whether we should think about getting married) and most importantly in relation to the DC. DP has always made it clear he is anxious about the idea of “taking on 4 DC” and not yet decided If he wants to do that. He is somebody who takes child raising seriously and has shouldered the parenting of his 3 DC since their mother’s death and has always used it as a reason to hold back on the next stage of our relationship. He has said he likes things as they are.

Last week DP got really drunk during the England match (we were not physically together at the time) and started whatsapping me very loving messages. It was all very nice then he started saying things like “it scares me so much taking on (DC’s names) but I want to live with you and wake up next to you every morning, so we should just do it. I am all in. I want to wake up with you every day, I don’t know what else will work.” Lots and lots of messages like this. I replied and told him not to talk about it when drunk but he became very insistent that he was full steam ahead and I should be too.

We saw each other yesterday and he was very sheepish about it, avoiding the question and just saying he got a bit drunk and carried away and we should talk about it later in the summer “as planned.” I had been so happy this week thinking it might finally happen so had it out with him and we had a proper talk about it.

Basically his reservations are as follows:

He can only do all or nothing with the DC. If we live together he is not going to pretend they are not in the house or take a step back from being involved, he is going to commit to parenting them because that is the person that he is. But it is the thought of that which is most scary. He will be 70 by the time they are properly grown up, he will get too old very quickly to parent young DC. He keeps saying “I don’t know if I can do that again.”
He said “I earn good money now, but I do not “have” a lot of money. I will need to retire at some point and your life is going to be expensive as you will want to send DC to university and higher education and give them lots of opportunities.”

He worries that he will get erectile dysfunction and not be able to keep me happy sexually (I already know he secretly takes Viagra, but he does not know I know.) He worries that he will suffer from poor health and that will be a burden on me.

He worries about introducing 4 new young DC to the house he lives and lived in (including bedrooms etc) with his dw and DC as if they (his DC) are being immediately replaced.

He wants to be able to have fun with me, celebrate his freedom and grown up kids, travel and have experiences and take opportunities. He sees this working better with him living alone and then me joining him for adventures. But then he appreciates I am at a different stage of life and doesn’t want to lose me.

I have honestly never been happier or had more fun than in this relationship. But I am also very insecure and I can’t tell if I am dealing with bog standard commitment phobia or whether what he is saying makes perfect sense. There is a part of me that is very romantic and just feels that if you want to make it work, you find a way to make it work.

Can anybody help with opinions or advice?

There is no way you can move four small children into the bedrooms of his kids who are at university and expect it to work. You would essentially be throwing his kids out of the house they grew up in (with their mother).

He's clearly made up his mind, and so you just need to decide if you can enjoy the relationship for what it is or if you need to move on.

I'm in a very similar situation. At first we were both keen on living together but life got tricky...both have teens with different needs. Now we accept that we probably won't anytime soon. If ever. It suits us but it's not for everyone. Our time is our time to enjoy each others company. We're not bogged down with house stuff which often takes over. I don't have to answer to anyone, I do what I want when I want, kids permitting. I'm not saying I couldn't do that if we lived together but its another person to consider. It definitely has its plus sides. I wouldn't write off your relationship just yet.

*My friend had a relationship for 2.5 years. He moved in with her and her teenage daughter. It didn't work at all. However, she thought laterally and for the past 2.5 years he has had his own place and their relationship is as strong as ever. She prefers to see him part of the week- being able to give her daughter everything she needs and have her own space as well as having a relationship without the stresses of parenting issues/ the daily grind. It really, really works for them.

There are many ways to be happy.*

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*You have a boyfriend rather than a partner. Can you be happy that? Can he? Sit down with him and talk about how you can maintain a relationship longterm given both of your circumstances.

He sounds like an honest man who is taking the prospect of stepdadding with the seriousness it deserves. Listen to him.*

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Op, young adults ( even at Uni ) also take up time, emotional energy and commitment. You only have to read MN to know that. And these young adults were also bereaved not that long ago.

You and he are both adults with many parenting commitments. Can you not make your happiness work in a new blended way rather than trying to shoe horn it into a traditional model that sounds so fraught with practical problems and the emotional lives of 7 other humans.

I think it's wonderful you have found each other and have the space and finances to make it work and enjoy each other so far.

Tbh I think everything else you are both juggling would kill your relationship dead on a practical, day to day basis.

Enjoy what you already have OP.

Thank you so much for your replies and advice. I think you have convinced me that it is better how it is right now.

I think part of me fears that now his DC are a lot more independent (they are all getting flats of their own now with boyfriends and girlfriends even though they do still return to the family home) that my DP will want more than I can give time-wise and travel-wise in the next phase of his life, and without having my DC there too, I don’t know how it could work. Also I worry about him meeting someone else if that is the case.

I am at full capacity in terms of work, kids and lack of sleep and time. It would solve some of the time problem if I could have him around in the times I have my kids.

The brief time I spent online dating before and after marriage, it was near-impossible to find any nice men. Either 40 and 50 year olds looking for 20-year olds, people just after sex, porn addicts etc. So when you meet someone and have a connection I feel like you should hold on to it.

I think I was misunderstood on the paragraph around “heated discussions about where I fit in” with his kids. That’s not really what it was like. We did not see each other over the lockdowns. When things lifted slightly there was a confusion over how we could spend time together again given restrictions and the fact his kids would show up without warning (which is understandable) I missed him a lot. As you can imagine it’s hard work with 4DC under 7 and a full time job, especially during lockdown, so I wanted to see him because he made me happy, and was a brief respite from hard work. but accepted I couldn’t.

While it’s not going to happen now or even near future, I wouldn’t just move my kids in to a “new house with a new dad.” I’d definitely do something more staged and check with them at each point whether they were comfortable.

Just for reference, I left my ex in the beginning stages of being pregnant with dtwins.

Just for reference, I left my ex in the beginning stages of being pregnant with dtwins.

Tbh OP I think I'm rather in awe of you.

Your worries about him wanting to travel etc and you being unable to are rational and reasonable but if it’s generally working as is, I would be tempted to hang on if it makes you both happy. Sounds as though some really honest conversations about what kind of lives you each envisage would be helpful going forward.

There’s a lot to be said for having ones own space and there’s no reason you can’t make it work if you both want it. Good luck 🍀

You are afraid of losing him and you think 'trapping' him with your four children will work. You want the safety of taking someone for granted. I get this; it is the nice part of marriage if you get it.

However, this is not fair on this man and your thinking is far from the romantic ideals you claimed to hold earlier.

You are at different stages in life. This may actually work perfectly fine. He can be your 'escape' from the daily drudge. I am a few years younger than your partner and there is no way I would embark myself on raising 4 children in the role of stepmother. Especially under the extra difficult circumstances you are reporting.

@sunglassesonthetable

Just for reference, I left my ex in the beginning stages of being pregnant with dtwins.

Tbh OP I think I'm rather in awe of you.

This also You have managed incredible things. You have done the most difficult part alone. Keep your independence.

It's hard for you, OP, but even the fact that his children are getting on with their adult lives doesn't necessarily mean that his kids would show up without warning is going to change. They're young - when their relationships are rocky, or they break up, or they just want to see him, they will still turn up all the time. And what better way to alienate them than to move yourself and your much younger children into their home?

You mentioned a nanny. Perhaps she needs to work more hours to give you a break? You can't expect your BF/non-resident partner to take on any of this role.

“ I am at full capacity in terms of work, kids and lack of sleep and time. It would solve some of the time problem if I could have him around in the times I have my kids.”

Yes, but those times your kids will be demanding your time too. And you will find it very difficult to give both sets your full attention. It won’t be the romantic liaison you imagine! I can tell you it very quickly wears off. While it was nice to have my boyfriend staying for three weeks over Christmas, I also found it stressful. I very much prefer being able to give me DCs and my boyfriend individual attention. And my DCs are 11 and 13! They pretty much ignore me all the time except when they want food and drinks and very rarely, the odd cuddle!

I do agree that it’s hard to find someone you really connect with. My boyfriend has mental health issues right now due to covid and work stress but he is getting therapy and I am supporting him through it. Is it easy? No, but he’s worth it.

Best of luck! People leave relationships for all sorts of reasons. If he meets someone who can give him more than you can, then so be it. He’s not worth your time then as he doesn’t see your value to him as a person. Have more self-worth! You have done amazingly well like a lot of posters have pointed out. You can’t change that by ensuring he is with you 24/7! Very likely he will leave you faster than a speeding bullet once faced with the drudgery of parenting 4 kids under 7! You might wish things are not that way but I think you need to be realistic about it.

Op I can completely see where you're coming from RE time with him, but do bear in mind that the children will still need looking after when you embark on fun things together, wherever they live. Personally I would take the fun over the mundane, and what you have at the moment with your dp is fun. if the relationship lasts the next ten-twenty years it will last, no need to jeopardise a good thing and the relationships with the dcs in the meantime.

I must say I admire your energy! I have two teens, work pt and can barely manage much more than a grunt to poor old dh at the end of the day. I'd love an excuse to schedule more fun into our relationship, so enjoy it

OP, I do think this could work but it would have to be very, very gradual. If you do truly love him (and there's no shame at all in admitting you don't love him enough to do this), then I would keep things as they are, build your relationship around the needs of your children, and very slowly work your way into each others lives. I think the rest will fall into place eventually.

As other posters have said, your DC are very young and have gone through an awful lot. I think it would be difficult to adjust to suddenly having this man in their life full time.

Equally, his DC will be traumatised by the loss of their mother. That kind of pain doesn't just go away. If you're going to be in their life, it needs to be a very slow burn. And, their need to have access to their family home with all its memories of their mother needs to be prioritised, at the very least until they've all properly settled and moved out.

Your absolute priority needs to be your DC. Likewise, his priority is his DC. If you can keep this in mind always, I think you could quite happily make some sort of arrangement, even if it takes years and years to get there.

This. I would keep the relationship as respite from real life but the fact is there are thousands of youngish unencumbered women who would love to be with a man such as him, given the chance. I wouldn't push it by trying to get parenting help from him.

It is a shame you are at different life stages and that there are so many awful men out there but we can't have it all. This is never going to be a day-to-day domestic relationship.

To all those saying that unless you live together it’s not a ‘proper’ relationship/partnership… how dare you claim to know this about other peoples’ relationships?!

Have you never heard of the growing number of ‘LATS’ (living apart togethers)??

My partner & I are ‘LATS’ and are very much a partnership thanks! We’ve been together nearly 2 years, and in that time have supported eachother through ill-health, work stressors, job changes, lockdown (we bubbled), family issues, parenting dilemmas… hardly a flimsy ‘FWB’ set-up then!

The reason we don’t live together is precisely because of our children. We both have 2 DC’s from our previous marriages, at different stages (mine are tweens, his are doing A levels). We both recognise our kids’ need for stability, keeping their own space/lives, and their need to get us to themselves when they’re with us. Due to their age differences we feel blending wouldn’t be fair on them. We are 100% committed to the time we are child-free, and spend that as a ‘married’ couple (cooking, watching TV, doing sport together, DIY etc). Plus every other fortnight we get the weekend to ourselves & enjoy adult-only daytrips/weekends away/spending time chilling together. We food-shop together, choose new bathrooms together, pick up each others prescriptions, buy birthday presents for each others kids etc. Are these things invalid because we live apart? I don’t think so.

Some people have a very narrow view of what a ‘proper’ relationship is (one which follows the fairytale script of meet, fall in love, cohabit, marry).
It’s as if co-habiting is the benchmark of commitment. For many of us who are post-divorce with children on both sides to consider, the script looks different but is still true love.

You know what? I don’t think it’s as bad as you think it is. He’s honest, he’s caring in a responsible way. You guys could end up having this lovely fun, special thing between you both and not have to deal with all the difficult stuff that comes from blending. How do I know this? Well I did the blending and it has been so difficult on both sides, and I’m now in something with a commitment not to live together or blend families and you know what; it’s amazing! So fun, so much about just us and none of the bad bits. I’m also an independent solid earner who needs nothing from a man other than companionship. I would not throw this away. You’re happy right now.

He's been clear about what he wants (drunk conversation aside) but you want more. And both of those things are fine. But IMO it makes you incompatible.

He wants his freedom, kids and house AND sex sessions. If you want the same, carry on as you are.

I say this gently but I don't blame him for not wanting to 'take on 4DC', he's done his time (widowed, not just divorced or separated) and I see why he wouldn't want to start that all over again.

He's explained what he wants and why - listen to that. Either call it a day or carry on as you are.

The reason we don’t live together is precisely because of our children. We both have 2 DC’s from our previous marriages, at different stages (mine are tweens, his are doing A levels). We both recognise our kids’ need for stability, keeping their own space/lives, and their need to get us to themselves when they’re with us. Due to their age differences we feel blending wouldn’t be fair on them. We are 100% committed to the time we are child-free, and spend that as a ‘married’ couple (cooking, watching TV, doing sport together, DIY etc). Plus every other fortnight we get the weekend to ourselves & enjoy adult-only daytrips/weekends away/spending time chilling together. We food-shop together, choose new bathrooms together, pick up each others prescriptions, buy birthday presents for each others kids etc. Are these things invalid because we live apart? I don’t think so.

Tbh I want to be a LAT.

@sunglassesonthetable - I heartily recommend it! It’s almost worth getting divorced for! I feel v smug against my cohabiting friends. They have no escape from the monotony of family life!

Starts musing as to whether I could convince dh that we actually want a LAT relationship...

@MuckyPlucky this sounds wonderful. I tried to convince my ex that LAT would be perfect for us especially since he had underaged dc at home and I’m done raising children. But he’s another one that feels if a couple isn’t living under the same roof it’s not a “real” relationship and shows no signs of progression.

He’s now living with someone he doesn’t like at all and he’s stuck with her and I wonder how he feels now about what’s real or not 😂

I have a friend that has been in a LAT with her dh for ten years and they share children. It works for them and it’s far from a fwb or just a boyfriend/girlfriend non partnership, they are very committed and love each other as much as any other couple

There's a lot of red flags here OP. Lots of people saying he's being honest. Yeh, upto a point.

Not very honest to string OP along with promises to "consider and discuss" at a later date when he's pretty obviously already made up his mind. He knows their relationship is going nowhere, he knows OP wants more, he knows he doesn't. He's keeping her around for as long as possible before she breaks up with him, because he doesn't want to break up but to stay as they are. It's unkind. If he really loved her, as in cared about her and wanted what was best for her, he'd wish her well and let her go.

The bit about being "all or nothing" with the children and saying if they live with him he's not going to "take a step back" on the parenting. That's an "I'm the king of the castle" comment. He's not planning to defer any parenting decisions to you, their actual mother. Not ok. You'd feel that vibe even more living in "his" house OP, it would never feel truly yours, I don't think.

Secret Viagra isn't good. Neither is his "worry about getting erectile dysfunction". Firstly, it's a lie. Already, before you're you're barely serious he's lying. Not lying by omission, directly lying. He already has erectile dysfunction! He also for whatever reason suspects it'll get worse, or why mention it to you now? If you're at the living together stage you should also be able to be honest about health conditions and medication.

Lastly, all the people telling OP to count her blessings with this relationship are totally missing the point. OP is unhappy to be skulking around in the shadows. Unable to be honest or show her true emotions because the relationship is a secret to all their DC. She's a grown woman and she wants a committed relationship not eternal secret dating.

OP I'd break it off and look for someone you're truly compatible with.

Sorry not read the whole thread but did you meet him before you left your ex partner ?

Apologies but if you did and his friendship helped you escape your last relationship I could understand you expecting more from the relationship.
As it stands, no, different life stages are huge things to overcome, his children need him still, they have lost their mother and will always need a solid base. Your children also need you to put them first.

Finances, I know so many people who are separated and even without the age gap are not willing to share finances due to inheritance issues, so they never live together and marry.

I'm affraid living with someone in the future would require more equality, in finances, life stage and preferably age. Of course he wants the benefit of having a sex life with someone younger but even he can see future problems ahead with that.

For me too many problems but not if you keep things entirely separate and you do not expect to move in together.

What do you want, because I don't think this man is capable of giving you what you want.

I'm also for staying as you are.

I met my dp 2 years ago when my dc were 11 and 13. He has 2 dc who are a bit older and live with their mum.

He lived here with us over the first lockdown due to logistics and being in between houses at the time and it was fine and he is living here again for a few weeks while he ait to move into his new home as he has relocated to live closer to me.

However, living here for a set period of time and living together full time are 2 very different things and I have no intention of living together for the foreseeable. I like being able to me "mum" for my kids and give them the time/attention they deserve and then being able to be Sunshine when I am with my dp and enjoy doing adult things like going out for dinner, etc when the dc are with their dad.

He gets on with my kids but he is not their dad and has no desire to be (neither do I or the kids). I sometimes feel torn when he is here between mum and gf so I choose to keep things quite separate. Him moving closer to me (he was an hour away until recently) has been our compromise so that we can see each other more often but for shorter periods and integrate a little more but not completely.

[quote MuckyPlucky]@sunglassesonthetable - I heartily recommend it! It’s almost worth getting divorced for! I feel v smug against my cohabiting friends. They have no escape from the monotony of family life![/quote]
Your relationship sounds very different to the op's. If I ever got divorced I'd only ever lat!