Adult Sons Making My Life Sad

[Franzipanny11]

2 sons, 21 & 25, I’m divorced, their father lives 10 mins walk away. I’ve had both boys since last March, eldest just graduated, youngest home from uni. Their father refused to have them because he’s got stents fitted and therefore underlying health risk. He’s now double vaxxed and still refuses to have them, however, he takes them to the pub and last Sunday took them out for drinks to ‘celebrate’ the end of our isolation (youngest had Covid). The boys drink A LOT, eldest projectile vomited in the shower on Sunday as he continued drinking after he left his father. My family history includes 2 alcoholic parents and so on top of worrying about their health, I’m worried about their propensity for addiction, and constantly reminded of a very unhappy childhood. I also feel backed into a corner and ‘left’ to do the parenting of 2 adult males whilst their father lives in a clean, child free zone with his partner. This is hellish, I’ve no family for support, my sister died very young and both parents now gone. How do I set rules if they’re just continually ignored and no back-up from their father?

Since when do 21 and 25 year old still go for overnight contact with their father?

They're not 'boys' their grown men so stop referring to them like young children

The parenting should have been done long ago.... Too late now.

Sit them down and give them a months “ notice” . Tell them there are new rules or they move out !

krankykittykat - I didn’t say overnight contact, I said they ‘visit’ him. They go for a coffee. The only reason they’re with me is because he won’t have them because he’s apparently high risk for Covid. Lots of women on here really happy to blame the mother and absolve the father when the fathers complete lack of input in their upbringing has also shaped their behaviour. You’re one of them, nice work.

GreyhoundG1rl - Christ, you talk some shite. And all in sound bites or cliches. Such a talent.

I'm not the one parenting two grown men 😂

he won’t have them, he’s too scared they’ll give him Covid.

Not so scared to meet them in a Pub though and socialise with randoms .. Dad is ripping this Piss ...

Well done for addressing this OP, you need to stand firm.. You will get your peace and quiet soon. 🌸

Just to say you sound like a caring and responsible mum.

They are young adults and could move out but it's not always that easy. Especially the 21year old, he'a just graduated and might not be financially able to get a place of his own yet.

25yr old should be encouraged to move out. Give him a set amount of time to find somewhere.

But, as a positive, they will remember that you were a supportive parent who made a nice home for them and cared for them.. as they spread their wings in the near future and leave home for good.

Well done for taking action OP i have teens and early 20's and if there was a hint of that they would be locked out.

That behaviour is truly dreadful and NOT normal.

You sound like a lovely mum and that they would disrespect you and your home like that is sad.

Unfortunately we teach people how to treat us and that includes teens.

Many will do as little as they can get away with.

I hope this is a wake up call to start stepping back.

Get their keys from them or change the locks.
Such disrespectful behaviour shouldn't be with returning keys when you get them out.

All of my friends have young adults the same age as your boys and whilst the odd drunken escapade might occur, there is NO way they would put up with what you have had to.
Their mum deserves much better.

Its really awful to see a thread full of people blaming one adult for the behaviour of two other adults. People vastly overestimate how much influence women have on partners or children. Many of the comments on this thread are unhelpful and verge on blaming.

I’m sorry you’re getting a few spiteful comments op - unfortunately there are some people who thrive on kicking people when they’re down. It’s very difficult bringing up two boys when their father isn’t on the same team. He’s left the donkey work to you. I agree with others that the eldest in particular needs to move out and projectile vomit somewhere else and, once it’s only the younger you’re dealing with, you can get tough perhaps without feeling so overwhelmed. It isn’t easy. A dose of reality for both of them is required. They’re your sons so I can see how you want to maintain a relationship with them whilst setting very firm ground rules.
Dont take any shit. Set your rules and let them know the ball is in their court. Stand firm.

Their Dad is taking the piss and so are they. You're in a difficult situation.

Are they paying rent? Do they even want to move out? Do they not want to start lives on their own? What about women? Do they invite women or girlfriends over? If they currently have that luxury then that should absolutely stop as you're making it far too convenient for them to stay. Also, stop cooking them meals. You probably have about 3 shelves in your fridge. From now on, divide them between you. I would keep doing their laundry because quite frankly, your house may because stinky if you don't. However, stop all cooking. From now on, they do food shopping and cooking for themselves. I know it's awkward because it's silly to have separate meals, but they need to start learning life skills. I've lived with men who were pampered by their mothers and when they live with women they expect the nearest female to fill the empty mummy/housekeeper slot.

Where's their zest for independence?? Sorry OP, but your lazy sons sound like they will make dirty, smelly, lazy partners who'll go on to treat their future wives as a housekeeper because that is all they've ever seen you do as the primary female presence in their lives.

Also, I really hope one day you get to live in a serene, lovely place that's just right for you x

I have no words of wisdom for you OP. I’m in a very similar situation with my 20 year old DD. She would love to move out into her own place with her BF. Unfortunately they are both students and both have to complete an extra year of their college courses, due to not being able to complete last year because of Covid 😣

Instead they treat my home like a hotel - staying here and at his parents whenever they feel like, raiding my fridge, making a constant bloody mess. They say they’ll be home for dinner tomorrow so I take enough meat out the freezer the night before and then they don’t show up! I’m sick to death of wasting food.

Then I have DH, who is a miserable bastard at the best of times, gives me the silent treatment when I lay out rules and set boundaries for DD and her BF. (Ok … I probably go a little bit mad at them) 🤷🏻‍♀️

Today I downed tools, went for a walk (couldn’t take the dog because it was too hot) as I just needed some space. Came home, prepared myself a salad and quiche and took it to my room and binge watched Netflix. DD (no BF tonight) didn’t bother making herself food. DH threw a frozen pie in the oven for himself. Nothing with it. I can imagine the ruckas if I had ever served him just one frozen pie!

DD has now decided to get in the bath. DH has gone to bed. I’ve just gone downstairs to make myself a cuppa and wash my dinner dishes. The living room is a tip!! How?? They are both bloody adults! 🤬

I really feel like moving out. I can’t deal with this any longer. I’m constantly walking on eggshells. Even when they are staying at BF’s they manage to turn up wanting something. I wish I could afford to move out. Sorry for the whinge. I just wanted to let you know you’re not on your own. And it’s bloody difficult 💐

Some really unpleasant posts here.

Good luck Op sounds as though you have a plan.

@Franzipanny11

They essentially treat the house like a student house, dirty plates everywhere, clothes left lying around, just mess everywhere. Obviously I’ve told them to stop it, but it just keeps creeping back in. They don’t walk the dog unless I absolutely can’t, they don’t clean their rooms unless I’m screaming at them and then I get accused of losing my shit, they are essentially lazy, By ‘parenting’ I mean ‘communicating’ - I talk to them, try to point out the pros/cons of any given situation they might be faced with and how to make the best decisions for themselves - I call that parenting, because that’s what it is.

My DD is much the same and I'm really looking forward to her going to uni in September.

She is messy and lazy and when I lose it will clean up her act for a couple of weeks. I've now been really strict with financial boundaries to stop her from taking the mickey and at least she 100% sticks to that now.

I'm very clear about the fact that there are certain things she can do in her own house but not in mine. This includes having a puppy (she has been asking since she was 7!), getting drunk, parties etc and remind her she is a legal adult who is responsible for herself.

Did your son at least clean up his own vomit?
I also agree you are still parenting.

I wonder how many of the critical posters on here actually have adult children?
Complete inability from some posters, to understand the conflicting emotions the OP' must be feeling!

OP I feel for you. Can you have a completely calm non confrontational but very honest chat with them. Sit them both down and say: we are three adults sharing a house. I can't live like this and I have no intention of being turned into either your housemaid or a screeching nagging harridan because you won't grow up and live here respectfully. Here's the choice: you either cook twice a week each, do an equal share of all household chores and stop drinking until you vomit or you live by your own rules in your own home, not here. Don't leave the conversation until they have agreed, and if they agree, the conversation ends with a one hour cleaning session followed by them going shopping for food they are cooking that same day.

One final thing I would say given the info you shared is that you are genuinely concerned about the family pattern of alcoholism and they need to think hard about whether it has been passed down genetically to them and how they might want to treat it so it doesn't impact on their health, work and relationships.

@ThisMarleyisNotaLabrador

could you plan to move out.. given time 😔

your post left me feeling so sad for you and OP both ..

please think of yourself .. make a plan for you 🌸

Whatever anybody says of course parents still parent their children into their 20s - they don't magically get capable of everything life has to throw at them aged 18 no matter what anybody might think.

One thing that doesn't make sense to me is their dad being afraid that his sons will give him covid if they stay over or live with him, but he goes out to the pub and for coffee with them, and obviously drinking quite a lot when they're in the pub! So I'd call bullshit on that excuse as to why he doesn't want them to stay over.

Sorry op but you are being waaaay too easy on these ADULTS! My dd is 20 left home almost 3 years ago for work and is now studying. We had a rocky patch just before she moved out but - my roof my rules!

She was earning full time so she had to pay keep, she was raised to pull her weight chores wise (I'm afraid I suspect you did practically everything for these entitled and selfish young men) and knew better than to disrespect me or our home or there were serious consequences!

Toughen up!

You're not doing yourself - or them - any favours by not doing so!

Time they GREW UP!

I'm also the daughter of an alcoholic so I get your fears but honestly at this point that's for them to figure out

Like fuck would I allow the mess you describe!

I suspect you're ignoring sometimes and screaming at others? You need to be stern commanding (head teachers voice) telling them to clear up their mess as soon as they're done eating or whatever

"I'll do it later"

"No! You will do it right now. Messes must be cleared up immediately"

Unfortunately as they're in their 20's and I suspect you've let things slide the last 2 decades (as has their father it's not all on you) So tbh it's a bit bloody late now!

I think your only hope is maybe

Change WiFi and other entertainment passwords

Sit them down for a calm but VERY assertive (look up techniques and phrases online) come to Jesus talk with them that from now on:

Pay keep - at the VERY LEAST they need to cover the costs they incur, NOT just food but also toiletries, cleaning products, heating, hot water, electric, are you back to full council tax? How many bedrooms? (Cos if it were just you you'd only need 1 bed!) ALL of it

Messes cleaned up IMMEDIATELY

Pull their weight with chores, (you can discuss and share them out according to each other's schedules if you like but don't be manipulated into doing the bulk)

Consideration shown to ALL in the house - you and their brother - regarding behaviour and noise and disturbing when rolling in after a night out.

But...honestly I think you've left it too late and it's up to them now.

Sounds like you had bad parenting of one kind and went too far the other way, understandable I had a similar difficulty. It's hard to resist the temptation.

If cost/COVID bubbles etc are a factor they could get a place together that way they're only annoying each other!

they don't magically get capable of everything life has to throw at them aged 18

No but a parents role is to spend the preceding 18 years preparing them be able to live independently come that age.

From being able to plan, shop for food and cook, to budgeting, to cleaning properly, to doing laundry, to basic home maintenance to knowing which bank to use to finding and keeping a job, to managing and maintaining relationships, to (hopefully I'm well aware it can be more complicated with addiction) resisting unhealthy and unwise temptations be they substances or people, to coping with rejection and disappointment...

We can't predict every issue they will encounter but we can try and prepare them as much as possible

And of course still provide emotional support at tough times I'm 50 next year and I still talk things out with my mum of course but, the buck stops here!

I've made mistakes, I've done what I thought was right at the time and learned the hard way it wasn't that's life. That has at times had impact on dd but I've tried to minimise that wherever possible.

But it utterly bewilders me the parents that baby their kids well into their 20's - and are then surprised said kids are immature, selfish, entitled, badly behaved people! When it's entirely predictable!

I've seen it as a parent and as a student myself.

Last time I was at uni early 2000's I was astonished how bad this phenomenon had become with a fair number of the 18/19 year olds being completely unprepared for living outside of their parents home to the point of barely being able to operate a cooker! I was shocked at the time and since then it seems to have become worse.

Having friends of dds over for dinner, sleepovers etc and 13/14/15 year olds being amazed that she was allowed and able to make a cooked breakfast or put a load of laundry on herself. Some WEREN'T ALLOWED to use a kettle until they were 17! It's ridiculous!

@Thelnebriati

Its really awful to see a thread full of people blaming one adult for the behaviour of two other adults. People vastly overestimate how much influence women have on partners or children. Many of the comments on this thread are unhelpful and verge on blaming.

This this this!!!! What a bloody pile on! Women yet again being blamed for the shitty mess left behind by men, one way or another

OP you're doing your best in extreme circumstances (covid)

Now you can and (bloody should) put yourself first without any guilt!

for you for navigating some of these bloody replies

It may be that you’re still stuck ‘doing their thinking for them’, as you do everything else? You actually don’t need to plan how, or where they move, or how they pay for it. Your only business, given their ages, is to announce the ‘when’ of it.

You are likely overestimating how hard it will be for them to ‘adult’ on their own. At that age, they have mates and contacts and work opportunities that you won’t be aware of. They haven’t had to get creative because you do all that hand-wringing for them.

Be calm, set a time, tell them a deadline. Say it’s not to do with punishing their behaviour, just that the natural ‘time has come’ for them to stand on their own adult feet. And learn to vacuum under those feet, actually. And let them know you are excited about forming a new kind of bond with them once they are out in the world, that it’s time the teenager routines you are all in comes to an end. Forever. I’d be mentioning that I was looking around for a smaller home to downsize to, and start the new phase of my life too.

Then start handing over duties to them immediately. House, garden, car maintenance, everything. Tell them it’s practice for the upcoming ‘moveouts’ and because adults sharing with other adults pull their weight. Don’t yell at them. Just withdraw services. Piles of dirty clothes? Chuck ‘em in their rooms. Same with plates, etc. Stop buying shampoo, etc. It’ll be rank for a while, but you’ve got a deadline date, right? I’d call it ‘lock-changing day’ to underline it.

They might surprise you. Don’t think they haven’t seen their mates go through this. They know. They are just taking the path of least resistance, and you are strewing it with rose-petals and home-cooked free meals.

Do they actually ask your advice on situations or are you volunteering it unsolicited? Either way, that's by the by.

Whatever anybody says of course parents still parent their children into their 20s - they don't magically get capable of everything life has to throw at them aged 18 no matter what anybody might think.

@IAmAWomanNotACis It's different though, it's not the same scenario as if they were chldren in age- unless they have some severe developmental delay, which presumably these 20-somethings don't.

I might've sometimes mentioned things to my mum but I would never have asked her advice on how to handle situations- I think most late teens/20-somethings think they know it all or know how they want to live their lives, they have their own (albeit flawed) personalities that interact with the world. Things sometimes go wrong and they navigate them, getting professional input if need be.

I think it's only now I'm 44 I'm fully appreciating how wise my mum is maybe. I'd never've gone 'oh Mummy, what should I do?' at any age, not even now, though I like to hear her opinions on feminist topics etc.

I have a disability which became more evident in my 20s, so my family have helped a lot, especially practically/financially. But I never would've asked their advice about life or anything, or whatever. By my late teens I couldn't wait to move out. And I've got by.

@Franzipanny11 Well done for what you've done so far and asserting yourself. Stay strong and keep going. xx