Help! Can things be repaired or am I destined to be in a loveless marriage??

[Eric7]

Hi all,

First time posting on one of these forums. Would really welcome some help. Been with my wife for over 20 years (Married for 11). She was my best friend. Things got tougher initially when we had 2 kids. However they are 5 and 7 now and we operate well as a family. Issue is my wife 12 months ago asked me to sleep in the spare room. Prior to that we argued from time to time about various things (work life balance, where we live, libidos (mine higher)). She says all the arguments caused her anxiety.

Since I moved into the spare room there has been no intimacy. My wife is also more detached from me. We still speak and sort of get on. We give each other a kiss in the morning and before bed time, but it is not the same. We have been going to counselling for the past 6 months. She provided a list of things she wanted me to change about things I do, which I think I have made great efforts to address (she agrees to). However there is little change in her stance. She says is affected by what happened previously and also she has lost the emotional connection to me / us and wants to try and find it again. But she doesn’t make much effort in trying to re establish it. It is always me offering her a hug, holding her hand, trying to make conversation. She spends most of her time looking at her phone when we are together.
The last 12 months have been awful. I work in a pretty stressful albeit well paid job and am the sole breadwinner in the house. Our kids are great and I could see us being a happy family and giving them a good life.
The issue however is my wife’s stance with me has taken a massive toll. I feel anxious now when I am around her. I feel constantly low and almost on the brink of tears sometimes. I have to maintain a façade when anyone asks about us, how we are.
With the lack of change I think I have a decision to make. I no longer have hope that we can work things out. I have done all I can to be a better person, but she has just remained withdrawn.
I can leave, but then I will have to move away back to my home town (200 miles away). All the close friends here are our neighbours, so I will lose them if I move out. I still have friends back in my home town, and whilst I doubt they are going to be as good as a rock as say family would be (PS Both my parents passed away so no longer have that support network), they will help. But I suspect I will have to deal with the pain on my own. And the pain of not seeing my kids grow up is horrible.
The other option is to stay, but accept that this is my life for the next 20 years in that I live in a pretty much loveless marriage. I at least get to be a dad to my children, but I fear I will change and become a more bitter person the longer this goes on.
Any thoughts advice appreciated. I would also like to know if anyone has stuck at such a situation and whether they are glad they did. Am in wrong and can things actually be repaired with my wife??? Or whether it was a mistake with hindsight?

Just to be clear I still care massively about my wife, and I think I still love her. I am still very attracted to her and just wish she would be the person I married (or as close to), as I really believe we could be a great family. But maybe my wishes are a bit delusional???

I am in my early forties, so perhaps there is a slim chance I could rebuild my life now. But I am scarred that I could be in the same position after a few more years.
I just want to be with someone who makes me happy, and who I can make happy as well. I don’t think that is unreasonable!!!
Thanks

I think you both have to commit to the relationship or it does end. What is the list of things you need to do for her? Emotional or household tasks? Did you abdicate childcare because you felt your job was too important? Be honest...what was your thinking because you may have shown contempt for her.

Have you heard of John Gotham, really helpful videos that you and your wife could watch, either together or separately.

On the subject of moving, I really can't see why you would move away, that seems so selfish and proves to your wife you want to opt out of parenting.. Is that your ulterior motive to separating so that you are back up North? Is this the elephant in the room?

The solution if you separate is to live locally. Your poor kids having to travel 200 miles to see you. It really is awful for them to have to travel plus you won't attend week events, be around to meet their friends etc. If you move you WILL detach from them. If you stay you can meet people, it's what most people have to do when they are no longer part of a couple.

Sell the house and each buy a 3 bed, in 10-12 years when they go to Uni you can move North. Your wife will need to go back to work, probadly full time and you could look to flex your job to provide some of the childcare.

My advice, start outlining what a separation would look like. Forget moving away as it's such a bad idea for the children. The focus on separation might make you and your wife realise what is at stake.

Onthedunes

Hi. Thanks for the post. Just to be clear I havent abandoned the kids to date. Whenever I am not working, I try and be supportive, show them love hugs, be silly with them. We have sleep overs in each of our rooms at the weekend with the kids.

But what can I do if I am working 10 hour days Monday to Friday. Cant really quit . Even with my salary, most months I have to take money out of my savings to cover house running costs. So I have to keep doing what I am doing.

But you are right that if I decide to move away, then it is pretty much as close to abandoning them as it can be. But then I can try and still be a good albeit long distance father, as I know emotionally I have a chance of rebuilding my life and confidence. But staying here, I may well be more present. But I will be a shadow of my former self. So they will see me more, but not the person I want to be .

From my experience (as a wife) if you want to rebuild the marriage then you have to acknowledge how you let your wife down after the birth of the children. She saw this as you becoming a family. You saw it as an incentive to work harder at your. Do not repeat why you did what you did but tell her how deeply sorry you are, articulate what it was like for her, how you let her down. Do this repeatedly. Spend a lot of time acknowledging what she does now in running the kids and house. Notice and express gratitude and thanks for what she does, small things and big things. You have to get to know what goes on in her life and acknowledge and appreciate that.

I have to say I only asked my H to move out of the bedroom once things had got so bad there was no hope of it being repaired. I had lost all respect and liking for him and hence lost attraction.

Have you asked her what she needs you to do to fix things? Or are you just doing what YOU think you need do.

I have to say if you are prepared to move 200 miles away then I suspect your wife is right about your lack of commitment to the kids and family. Not only will your kids feel abandoned but you will make it harder for your wife to obtain work as you will not be around to help with childcare around getting to and from work. It might suit you to do that but it won't suit anyone else. YOu say the kids like the house but they will like having their father more.

I'm astonished in your plan to move so far away.

You're putting yourself first and your children second by thinking of moving away quite that far. It is actually possible to make friends locally and tbh the only friends a lot of mums have locally at this stage are other mums - my best friends are from uni and miles away, likewise family. This is just how it is at this stage with small children. It's not forever.

Even if you're working long hours, if you're local they can come over to stay in the week, or have dinner at yours when they're a bit older. There's more chance of you getting to the Christmas play, or parents evenings, or to see them in their activities. These things really matter to children who want and need their dad.

Once a fortnight would be a massive change and remember it's not just you who would have to do that enormous round trip - it's them. What a waste of their time on a weekend and it rules out them doing so much with their own friends in their free time when they're older.

It would change the relationship they have with you dramatically and could well result in them being resentful or just plain not wanting to see you as they get older. Stay close. Keep the bond you have.

It's also betraying your wife to essentially dump 100% childcare on her 24/7 during those weeks. You might not be around because of work but you're in the house and presumably an extra pair of hands and a bit of support emotionally for the parenting side of things. In your position I'd be absolutely furious with such a proposition.

Get two smaller houses, downsize and don't run away. You can still build a new life and find happiness.

I'm divorced, my XH sounds a bit like you but thank Christ he's stayed within 10 miles and sees the kids every week. If he'd told me he needed to go 200 miles away I'd tell him he needed to stop being selfish I'm afraid. Sorry to be blunt but it's an appalling idea.

Do don't seem to be listening to the good advice given - you seem determined to leave your children and sod off and start a new life/family.

Are you waiting for a poster to tell you to do that? I think most people would think that was a shit and selfish thing to do.

But you wanna be selfish shit then go for it. Just don't be surprised when you it all goes tits up again.

Grown ups don't have children then leave them, I'm not surprised your wife is not into you...I wouldn't be either. You're not much of a prize.

But you are right that if I decide to move away, then it is pretty much as close to abandoning them as it can be. But then I can try and still be a good albeit long distance father, as I know emotionally I have a chance of rebuilding my life and confidence. But staying here, I may well be more present. But I will be a shadow of my former self. So they will see me more, but not the person I want to be
Let's take your extremely pessimistic viewpoint and assume that you will be miserable for a good while. After a couple of years of therapy, anti-depressants if you are really low, physical exercise and getting out, seeking out activities and joining groups, you'll have a much better idea of whether you are going to be OK in the south in the long run. If, after a couple of years, you still felt like you couldn't cope, you could then still think about moving away, but not in the panicked rush you are now imagining.

If you move away now, by contrast, you'll stay away. Your children will be a lot less forgiving about that when they grow up than they would be about having to move house. Your wife will be much more restricted in the jobs she could get, so you'll be bearing more of the financial burden for longer.

You're here for advice; don't dismiss the unanimous voices warning you against abandoning your children. Not "close to" leaving them, but actually leaving them and moving 4 hours away where they cannot get to you of their own accord if they want you. That leaves scars.

Sorry, but it really is all about you isn't it? You want to rebuild your life and confidence.
But your wife is exhausted. And you are planning to run away to 'rebuild yourself' free of the encumbrance of a family, leaving her to rebuild a career whilst being full-time parent AND having to support her children emotionally from their Father leaving them to better himself.

You want to rebuild your confidence whilst destroying your children's letting them know that their Father doesn't care enough about them to be in their lives and live near them.

Having children means the parent makes the sacrifices when the shit hits the fan. It doesn't mean the parent sacrificing their children.

Surely it makes more sense to split with a view to initially trying to make yourself a happy, healthy single life locally so you can live near the kids?

Rather than making out your only options are staying in your current home as a married man vs moving hundreds of miles away as a single man?

With all due respect, you seem to be implying it's easier to give up than it is to try the harder but more child centred route first - split, live nearby, co-parent and proactively build a life for yourself locally.

If you feel that doesn't work, then you consider moving so far away. It seems pretty selfish for it to be your default alternative to continuing the stats quo?

I don't understand how moving closer to friends you have presumably not !ived near to for many years and leaving your children in the process will be the difference between rebuilding your life and living as a shadow of your former self? You need to be honest with your wife. How much does she know of these plans aready? You need to tell her so that she can return to work and get herself a support network in place. You would be being very unfair dragging this out for another 6-12 .months further increasing time out of work.

[quote ravenmum]@Onthedunes I understood OP to be saying that the only friends he has nearby down south are other dads living in the neighbourhood. Hence him wanting to move away.[/quote]
Yes, prioritising a higher tier of friends over being in your childrens' lives is exactly what all good Fathers do.

I feel anxious now when I am around her. I feel constantly low and almost on the brink of tears sometimes.
Have you been to see your GP? It sounds like you are currently making decisions from a position of depression and hopelessness. When your mind is altered by depression, you simply cannot imagine things being better - so you can't make properly informed, rational decisions. Depressed people believe truly that their children will be fine without them, even if they would never think that when well. Speak to your GP if you have not done so already and see if they suggest anti-depressants.

@notthenever I think you misunderstood the context of that comment, I was simply correcting another poster who thought OP was talking about his dad's friends.

Thanks for all the messages. I needed a slap in the face reality check (hence posting). And to be honest there is not much in terms of response that I disagree with. If I am honest then yes I am thinking more so of myself as the priority here is mental health during this period. I dont like the idea of just downing anti depressants, as that is not really a long term / sustainable solution. It is trying to find a way that is realistically sustainable .

My preferred option is to not go and see if the marriage can be saved. When I think about living here on my own, it does start to make me feel panicky.

And yes I would like a poster on a wall telling me what to do :)

You need to speak to your wife. Choose the right time and ask her for her thoughts on the relationship and how she feels the counselling is going. It doesn't sound as if any improvements are apparent. Perhaps she just isn't able to get over your (apparent) lack of support when the children were small.

It sounds as if you are feeling under pressure at being the sole earner. If you are having to dig into savings to fund essential household expenses your wife needs to go back to work and you both share responsibility for everything else.

The main thing that really stands out to me, as lots of other posters have mentioned, is your insistence that you would need to move 200 miles away if you were to separate. This would be an incredibly selfish thing to do. You would be letting your children down hugely and your wife plus reinforcing her view that you don't share the parenting role. Lots of people move area for work or other reasons and need to put effort into building local connections. You don't just abandon your children because it is harder. It sounds as if the large family house would need to be sold so that two smaller properties could be funded. That is the reality when many marriages breakdown, unfortunately.

I dont like the idea of just downing anti depressants, as that is not really a long term / sustainable solution. It is trying to find a way that is realistically sustainable .
Speak to your GP and if they think ADs are a good idea, they will explain what anti-depressants do and how long you might want to take them for. I suspect you may be thinking of the kind of ADs they used to have in the 1960s, that made you like a zombie and were addictive. Modern ADs restore you to a state in which you can make the kind of decisions you would when mentally healthy. They are not addictive and you don't "down" them as you fancy; you are put on a carefully regimented programme at the level you need. That might last a few months or a couple of years. They don't have to be sustainable, as you will be fine by then without them once this current stress is gone. Again, it sounds like you are depressed, if you are unable to imagine a point at which you wouldn't need ADs any more.

So sorry to hear you are going through this. Sadly very common.
Some great advice already posted and I would echo that you reconsider moving so far away back up north. Your life is where you currently live and more importantly where your children are. If they want to pop round to show your something or watch a film/footie then it's much easier than if you were hundreds of miles/and overnight stay away. That is priceless and could be the difference between you being closer to them or having to endure visits because they are told to.

Also practically speaking if you do decide to end the relationship, no fault divorce comes in next year so the process should be easier as neither of you have to blame the other for something. One person applies for the marriage to be ended

I feel for you OP. Good luck whatever you decide 🤞🏼

' If I am honest then yes I am thinking more so of myself as the priority here is mental health during this period. I dont like the idea of just downing anti depressants, as that is not really a long term / sustainable solution. It is trying to find a way that is realistically sustainable .'

Sorry if I have missed this. I'm a bit confused by this statement. Have you been diagnosed with depression and are you already on anti depressants?

Moving hundreds of miles away would be so selfish. Lots of people survive without support on hand.

When I think about living here on my own, it does start to make me feel panicky.
As I mentioned, I live abroad. At the point I broke up with my exh, I would have jumped at the chance to go back to the UK; this place is OK (nice area but definitely not foreigner-friendly), but I was only here because of him, and felt resentful. Since breaking up with him, as I say, I've put more effort into being sociable and have made more friends here, do more activities and have a bf who does more with me than my ex did. I'm happier here than I was back then. My children are adults now, but I still don't want to move away from them. I'm not only here because of my ex - I made my choice to stay - and that makes me more positive towards the place, too.

Have a look through the site for threads about starting again on your own after a breakup, or start one yourself. Find information about where and how you would live so that you can imagine it better and it is not a big scary unknown. Get therapy and work through your feelings about not being in your element down south.

If I am honest then yes I am thinking more so of myself as the priority here is mental health during this period. I dont like the idea of just downing anti depressants, as that is not really a long term / sustainable solution. It is trying to find a way that is realistically sustainable

Well, your priority is your mental health. There are three other people's mental health who will be adversely affected by your decision to move away to improve yours.

Find a way to sort your head out without damaging other people. Anti-depressants / counselling/ a new hobby. Plenty of people cope in your situations, and in situations much. much worse than yours, without running away. You can too.

There are elements where my husband was not supportive with young babies. It’s very hard to get past the anger and resentment, because it keeps coming back to it’s not love to be so selfish and uncaring when your help is needed. It’s just thinking about yourself and not giving a shit about the struggling wife. I could only move past when my husband sincerely apologised, I’d told him these were a deal breaker. So In some ways I see your wife’s perspective.

But the you’d just move 200km away? Mumsnet is full of posts from women struggling away from home to be the primary carer as Thats where they and the children live now. They usually only move home when they have a very absent partner who is no support at all. I have to say you sound like one of these. I cant contemplate just moving 200km away so you as a newly single guy who is only planning to see his children every other weekend can have support. Rent a place. Have your children on a weeknight too. Be a dad. Go to their concerts and sport. Or just abandon them like you’re planning to. Your call.

@Eric7

Onthedunes

Hi. Thanks for the post. Just to be clear I havent abandoned the kids to date. Whenever I am not working, I try and be supportive, show them love hugs, be silly with them. We have sleep overs in each of our rooms at the weekend with the kids.

But what can I do if I am working 10 hour days Monday to Friday. Cant really quit . Even with my salary, most months I have to take money out of my savings to cover house running costs. So I have to keep doing what I am doing.

But you are right that if I decide to move away, then it is pretty much as close to abandoning them as it can be. But then I can try and still be a good albeit long distance father, as I know emotionally I have a chance of rebuilding my life and confidence. But staying here, I may well be more present. But I will be a shadow of my former self. So they will see me more, but not the person I want to be .

I’m sure your kids would feel great about that.

You are an adult and can make friends wherever you are.

They are your children. If you move away your relationship with them will falter. They don’t care about your confidence and wellbeing. They’re kids. They want you THERE. You are meant to taking care of their welfare; not the other way around.

I was 10 when my dad left us. We didn’t see him for 6 weeks and he lived a mile away. By the time he came back, we were quite disinterested in him.

There’s no way you’ll travel that distance to see your children often enough. Every 2 weeks won’t cut it.

Don’t do this to your innocent children.

I think you're having a "flight" reaction, in that it all seems so overwhelming you want to run away. It's understandable when you're miserable but in the nicest way I'm going to hand you a grip -- hands grip

I agree you need to do some work on your mental health, could you get some counselling perhaps?

If you move that far away you'll be repeating a damaging pattern of opting out of family life - just on a nuclear scale. And I don't think you would be happier in fact, when my kids are at their dads the house is so empty and quiet, I find it really unsettling. If I had that for a fortnight at a time I'd sink into myself and get into bad habits I think e.g. drink too much and not look after myself etc.

Anyway that's just me. I think the solution is so much easier than what you're proposing. You're talking about sledgehammers to crack nuts. If it comes to separation, go for two smaller houses, nearby, two happier parents, each getting time with kids and time to themselves to develop new interests and friendships and no yawning absences or ludicrous logistics to destroy everyone's free time.

OP,
Your wife can't get past feeling abandoned during these years.

Was she working and juggling most of the childcare at the same time?

If she was, it was probably horrifyingly stressful and she feels utterly betrayed by you.

It is very hard to come back from that.
For you to move so far away will be confirmation for her and a terrible thing to do.
Honestly for you to even consider it, sounds like she is their only parent.

You bond with your children will be destroyed of that you can be sure.

I think you need to think long and very hard about the man you are and want to be.

A good man and father does not move 200 miles a way.
It would be abandonment of them.

You really need to talk to your wife.

Two small houses close by is the better option and your wife will have to return to paid work.

My preferred option is to not go and see if the marriage can be saved. When I think about living here on my own, it does start to make me feel panicky.

As a single man, living alone is pretty easy really, come and go as you please, don’t need to worry about what someone else’s needs.

Quite how you fit child care and dual parenting into that I can really answer, but the mechanics of living alone are simple really.