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Original poster

Red flags on second date

122 replies

Beauxandarrow · 29/05/2021 07:15

Hi all.

Before I dive in to this, I’m not asking if these are red flags or not, I know they are. I just want an opinion on how likely this scenario is to be true, because all my senses are telling me to run for the hills to be honest.

So I went on a second date last night. We went to dinner at a nice sushi restaurant and I was looking forward to it after a good first date and good conversation over messaging following our first meet up.

It started well last night and we talked about a few things we have in common such as values etc. After a few drinks though, he told me that in the interest of being transparent, he wanted to tell me that he has a conviction for sexual assault.

He is in the military and said that he was on a night out a few years back and him and his friends got chatting to some girls in the pub and one of them accused him of putting his hand down her top and groping her. Apparently the CCTV didn’t show the table they were sat on so it was very much a he said/she said scenario. This turned in to a 9 month long court process and despite 6 of his friends apparently telling consistent stories to the court, there was a risk of him being found guilty so he was advised to plead guilty to save his job.

Something doesn’t feel right about this story.

9 months of court for groping? I’m not minimising that at all, but it sounds like more actually happened than he is letting on. Also, under what circumstance could it be advised to plead guilty to something you didn’t do? I questioned this and told him I can’t understand why that would save your job and he said if he had pleaded not guilty and then been found guilty he would’ve been kicked out.

He then went on to mention how he has been verbally and physically assaulted by blokes on his ship following the incident because of hearsay and people making rumours about him being a rapist.

This is just not right is it? I am just not convinced that this is because of ‘transparency’. I have friends in the military and I feel like he’s only told me this before someone else does.

Very, very odd. Needless to say I don’t feel another date is on the cards.

OP posts:
jannyapple · 29/05/2021 09:07

I can't remember the name of the law ... maybe Sarah's Law ?
Where you can ask a local police service if they have any information on a person as you are considering a relationship/ meet children etc
This could come into that category
Court issues take a long time 9 months isn't too bad

Umberellatheweatha · 29/05/2021 09:11

I dont think they'll let you run a Sarah's law check on someone you've had two dates with unfortunately lol. Shame really. Tbh I think there should be a website open to everyone with a list of these predators.

pictish · 29/05/2021 09:13

It would be a flat no for me, simply because I’d like to date someone without a conviction for sexual assault.

Original poster
Beauxandarrow · 29/05/2021 09:23

Thanks for all the comments.

I have tried Googling but nothing comes up when I type his name and the charge?

To answer some questions yes court has happened. He said her friends were questioned and backed her up except one of them who said she didn’t see anything.

As some of you have already said, I am just really stuck on the fact that there must be more evidence than just taking someone’s word for it for it to have gotten that far. Courts surely don’t find people guilty based on just words when he had his friends supposedly backing him and his story, and she hers.

A conviction for a ‘made up’ drunken grope just doesn’t sit right. What would be someone’s motive for going to court and lying about being groped!

OP posts:
L0V315 · 29/05/2021 09:24

Drop him like a hot stone op and block him.

Do not ignore the warning bells.

Branleuse · 29/05/2021 09:27

I wouldnt risk it.
He knows it would come out anyway, so he has to say something but hes minimising what it was about.
You dont do 9 months of court and a conviction for nothing

Umberellatheweatha · 29/05/2021 09:27

Really grim that he is talking about how they had no evidence ect... (I'm curious, did he actually say 'I didnt do it' or did he skip right to saying thet couldn't prove it?).

But yeah - aye mate some random ppl made up a conspiracy against you. Riiiiiiight.

partyatthepalace · 29/05/2021 09:28

Who knows what actually happened.

What matters is your instincts are telling you something isn’t right - so trust them.

pictish · 29/05/2021 09:29

I agree. I think there’s more to it. Even if there isn’t, you can’t be confident of ever knowing the facts.

As much as I can and do sympathise with people who are falsely accused, I have no interest in means testing a sexual assault charge in a relationship. I don’t have to so I wouldn’t.

anothernewtop · 29/05/2021 09:31

I can understand you wanting to know how much is true and how much more there obviously is to his take but I cannot for the life of me understand why you are deciding whether to 'run for the hills' or not.

This man is not for you. There are lots of other men who do not have convictions for sexual assault.

Original poster
Beauxandarrow · 29/05/2021 09:34

@Umberellatheweatha

He said he didn’t do it and he would never cross a boundary like that. But yeah, he’s going to say that.

Another thing... he said that he was getting stick from the other lads in the military about it, and he said ‘I just thought it’s so unfair... you know... innocent until proven guilty’ and I said to him, ‘but you did plead guilty, so what do you expect them to think?’

This also got me thinking...he said that the lads who physically assaulted him as a result of his conviction must’ve been triggered by it as they were close to someone who had been sexually assaulted in the past. And I just thought... would you really get beaten up for a grope? Something just stinks.

OP posts:
partyatthepalace · 29/05/2021 09:36

@Tigertalk

Well you can find someone without this horrible conviction ( and no smoke without fire etc) rather than carry on with this dubious guy. I’d be moving on
@Tigertalk

Nothing to do with this thread (I agree the OP should trust her instincts and bolt) but ‘no smoke without fire’ is one of the most woefully ignorant phrases in the English language. The assumptions that lie behind it lead to all sorts of discriminatory behaviour including for example the current treatment of young black men in the justice system.

TokyoSushi · 29/05/2021 09:38

I'm not sure about the speed, or anything to do with the conviction, but just the fact that there is a conviction would be a massive no for me.

Original poster
Beauxandarrow · 29/05/2021 09:43

Also I agree that it’s very handy to know this information early on as there is no emotion at all.

And yes, there are plenty of men out there without these bombshells. I haven’t dated for three years because I just don’t trust myself to pick a good person based on my ex.

I have had counselling etc so I know why I made those choices but it just puts me off totally that this is my first experience back on the ‘dating scene’ and I’m confronted with this.

It’s very tempting to not bother because it’s quite a lot of hassle.

OP posts:
QuentinBunbury · 29/05/2021 09:48

Have you googled him? I'd do that first tbh

Tigertalk · 29/05/2021 09:50

@partyatthepalace sorry I’ve no idea what you’re talking about. It’s a commonly used phrase

DateXY · 29/05/2021 09:51

There's no conviction without evidence. And a lot of cases where assault truly happened are dropped/not enough evidence to be able to convict.

It's very telling you're even considering continuing dating him. There's like a billion guys out there. Find one who isn't a convicted sexual perpetrator. Confused

Tigertalk · 29/05/2021 09:53

@DateXY exactly

Caffeinatedmonstergirl · 29/05/2021 10:04

I mean this as kindly as possible, but you have had just two dates with him - run. You deserve a lot better than someone who has a conviction for sexual assault.

Yellowhighheels · 29/05/2021 10:05

Well, he might be telling the unvarnished truth but I feel like on a second date, as with anything that is difficult to tell a new date, he is more likely to be sanitising. Odd that nothing is coming up online and also (I am no expert) quite odd that it went to court at all and he was convicted. If he didn't do it, and there was no evidence other than friends on either side corroborating each party's version of events then would that make it enough of a risk to plead guilty to a sex crime?

I suppose yes, he might have been scared and had bad legal advice (in my opinion) but personally I wouldn't be taking the risk here. Your instincts are good, listen to them.

partyatthepalace · 29/05/2021 10:06

@Tigertalk

Yes it is commonly used - to imply that is a person / or their family / or their social group has a bad reputation, then something more serious is going on. This flies in the face of innocent until proven guilty, which is the cornerstone of any civilised society - and it leads to a great deal of prejudice and discrimination.

(Again nothing to do with the OP’s situation)

Naunet · 29/05/2021 10:07

He is in the military and said that he was on a night out a few years back and him and his friends got chatting to some girls in the pub and one of them accused him of putting his hand down her top and groping her. Apparently the CCTV didn’t show the table they were sat on so it was very much a he said/she said scenario. This turned in to a 9 month long court process and despite 6 of his friends apparently telling consistent stories to the court, there was a risk of him being found guilty so he was advised to plead guilty to save his job

Oh come on! Less than 2% of rapes end up in court, the CPS are constantly not charging in cases with good solid evidence, yet he wants you to believe he went to court for groping someone, in a case where there is no evidence?! My fucking arse.

SortingItOut · 29/05/2021 10:07

Has he even given you his proper name?

Please have more counselling as you are actually seriously considering continuing with a man with a criminal conviction for sexual assault.
Your previous counselling has clearly not worked.

pictish · 29/05/2021 10:07

Something just stinks.

It does.

Tigertalk · 29/05/2021 10:09

[quote partyatthepalace]@Tigertalk

Yes it is commonly used - to imply that is a person / or their family / or their social group has a bad reputation, then something more serious is going on. This flies in the face of innocent until proven guilty, which is the cornerstone of any civilised society - and it leads to a great deal of prejudice and discrimination.

(Again nothing to do with the OP’s situation)[/quote]
I’m using it in the context that he’s pleaded guilty and his story sounds ropey as hell.

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