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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Red flags on second date

122 replies

Beauxandarrow · 29/05/2021 07:15

Hi all.

Before I dive in to this, I’m not asking if these are red flags or not, I know they are. I just want an opinion on how likely this scenario is to be true, because all my senses are telling me to run for the hills to be honest.

So I went on a second date last night. We went to dinner at a nice sushi restaurant and I was looking forward to it after a good first date and good conversation over messaging following our first meet up.

It started well last night and we talked about a few things we have in common such as values etc. After a few drinks though, he told me that in the interest of being transparent, he wanted to tell me that he has a conviction for sexual assault.

He is in the military and said that he was on a night out a few years back and him and his friends got chatting to some girls in the pub and one of them accused him of putting his hand down her top and groping her. Apparently the CCTV didn’t show the table they were sat on so it was very much a he said/she said scenario. This turned in to a 9 month long court process and despite 6 of his friends apparently telling consistent stories to the court, there was a risk of him being found guilty so he was advised to plead guilty to save his job.

Something doesn’t feel right about this story.

9 months of court for groping? I’m not minimising that at all, but it sounds like more actually happened than he is letting on. Also, under what circumstance could it be advised to plead guilty to something you didn’t do? I questioned this and told him I can’t understand why that would save your job and he said if he had pleaded not guilty and then been found guilty he would’ve been kicked out.

He then went on to mention how he has been verbally and physically assaulted by blokes on his ship following the incident because of hearsay and people making rumours about him being a rapist.

This is just not right is it? I am just not convinced that this is because of ‘transparency’. I have friends in the military and I feel like he’s only told me this before someone else does.

Very, very odd. Needless to say I don’t feel another date is on the cards.

OP posts:

HosannainExcelSheets · 29/05/2021 07:19

Taking 9 months to get to court is actually very fast, and pleading guilty bro something you didn't do does happen. But... I have no idea why it would save your job.

And you should run for the hills. Whether it's true or not, you don't feel comfortable with the situation so trust your instincts.

Original poster

Beauxandarrow · 29/05/2021 07:34

I have trouble trusting my instincts and it’s landed me in hot water before so I really am trying to listen to myself on this occasion.

I can’t understand the logic of pleading guilty to something you didn’t do. Even if he did lose his job, surely that’s better than having a conviction?
It seems like a well put together lie.

OP posts:

wizzywig · 29/05/2021 07:37

Because you get less 'time' for pleading guilty. It stops the victim from having to testify.

spotcheck · 29/05/2021 07:48

Isn't it possible to check court records?

MusicWithRocksIn1t · 29/05/2021 07:48

Run. It sounds like a lie to me too.
Trust your instincts.

doodlejump1980 · 29/05/2021 07:50

Run. Run for the hills.

Sparklfairy · 29/05/2021 07:52

True or not, it would still send alarm bells ringing. Find out if there's a way for you to discreetly check the court records and anything else you can find through digging online.

bigbaggyeyes · 29/05/2021 07:52

Trust your instincts.

People do plead guilty for lots of reasons even when they aren't. Some people like to know the outcome beforehand, some people won't take the risk of being found guilty and the associated penalties. It's often less severe if you plead guilty and you don't have a 'trail' if that makes sense

But in all honestly, if it was me, I'd not see him again. You've only seen him twice so no emotional connection etc.

Also, I'm surprised the military would have kept him on if he'd been guilty of a sexual assault. I don't know that of course

SortingItOut · 29/05/2021 07:54

I mean it may have happened as he said or is may be that he is minimising the whole situation.

He needs to impress you, he is not going to admit the full details to you but by giving a story of sorts when the truth comes out he will say he told you.

People can be told by solicitors to plead guilty if there is enough evidence as it reduces the sentence.

Think how many sexual assault cases don't make it to court, how many are found not guilty even with evidence and this man has pleaded guilty...something doesn't ring true.

Run away

TeamKale · 29/05/2021 08:01

Named changed for this.

I was in a similar situation about six months ago - except the details of the conviction were different (not sexual). I knew him through friends so was able to verify his story and we got on brilliantly so I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt, reasoning that he’d told me the truth upfront and that I could trust him.

Big mistake.

Over the course of a short relationship I realised the incident he was convicted for probably wasn’t a one off and that he was an expert at presenting one ‘public’ personality that didn’t match the ‘private’ one. I also felt like I couldn’t introduce him my family as they would Google him and find details of the conviction. Even after a short relationship, it was hard to get myself out of it (guilt, threats, fear, etc).

Obviously, your date could be completely different, but his history will always bother you.

Better to walk away now x

BewareTheBeardedDragon · 29/05/2021 08:25

Regardless that some people may plead guilty when they're not, ime in a he said she said situation, given the beyond reasonable doubt principle, and the principle that it's better 10 guilty men walk free than 1 innocent man be wrongly convicted that our courts work by - it rings totally false that he would have been advised to make a guilty plea if there were no evidence other than that favourable to him (his friends testimonies). Which makes me think that in his case he pleaded guilty because he was, and probably of a much more serious attack than the one he describes.

Trust your instincts and run.

Tigertalk · 29/05/2021 08:33

Well you can find someone without this horrible conviction ( and no smoke without fire etc) rather than carry on with this dubious guy. I’d be moving on

mindutopia · 29/05/2021 08:44

Run for the hills. I have a very similar experience in my own family. My mum met a man online dating and he told her on their first date that he had a conviction for child sex offences (child was his own daughter, he plead guilty to ‘spare the family’ even though it wasn’t true, blah, blah, blah).

15 years later they are still together, married now, and have both lost their entire families. His kids obviously had nothing to do with him anyway but I am NC with my mum now too and she has no relationship with her gdc.

I’m pretty sure his disclosed to test her, see where her boundaries were and to start grooming her. My mum has pretty low self worth and absolutely no boundaries. She was the perfect match for him. They are supposedly blissfully happy together, but she’s lost everything else. I think he’s showing you who he is. He just wants to know if you’re weak enough to accept it’s all you’re worth.

happinessischocolate · 29/05/2021 08:44

As pp have said it sounds true enough in terms of taking 9 months to go to court and being encouraged to plead guilty. You can be threatened with the risk of a jail sentence if convicted versus a suspended sentence if you plead guilty, and 9 months to get to court is nothing.

I would walk away though.

LividBlabber · 29/05/2021 08:45

Yeah, I googled a potential date and he had a conviction for selling class As in a pub.

No date.

pinkyredrose · 29/05/2021 08:50

Did he mean it took 9 months to get to court or that the court case itself took 9 months?

NashvilleQueen · 29/05/2021 08:50

I suppose the only thing in his favour is that he told you on a second date which he didn't have to do and it would certainly have been easier for him (in manipulation terms) to tell you once you had an emotional connection to him.

The timescales and the background are likely.

If you think he did it then you already know it's a red flag. Sometimes people are badly advised and sometimes people are innocent of crimes they're convicted of. The overwhelming reality however in sexual offences is that women don't fabricate allegations.

Landedmydreamjob · 29/05/2021 08:52

I’d walk away.

LatteLoverLovesLattes · 29/05/2021 08:56

9 months is pretty quick

Pleading guilty is often advised as it's a lesser punishment. But I don't think I could ever do it myself. People do though.

I'd see what else I could find out.

But what is he supposed to do? Being upfront he never gets another date. Keeping his mouth shut gets dumped later when it comes out.

If he seems nice, I'd see him again, but I'd be more cautious. Meet him at a venue, don't invite him home or go to his etc.

See how it goes for a while.

LawnFever · 29/05/2021 08:57

Trust your instincts, but have you googled the case?

There’s probably something online somewhere to be found if he’s been convicted, I agree it sounds suspicious - walk away now before you get any more involved

Beeeeeeeeeeeeeep · 29/05/2021 09:01

There's no way a case would get to trial without solid evidence. If it happened as he said the CPS would not have approved a prosecution. He's lying.

Umberellatheweatha · 29/05/2021 09:03

Tbh...people very rarely report sexual assaults and if it was just a hand down the top groping scenario on a night out...I just don't think the girl would have bothered reporting it tbh. Most of us would figure that was more trouble than it's worth unfortunately. Unless maybe there was a bust up at the scene and ge got nicked and statements were taken,maybe. But I'd bet there was more to it.

Also the whole 'the guys call me a rapist thing' ...it sounds like he is just getting his side of the story out first before you hear worse from others/rumours. So you will think they are exaggerating. Plus...the whole 'woe is me, people badmouth me for being a gropey creep' is just pathetic tbh.

Feels a bit like he is testing you to see what you will accept.

Running for the hills gets my vote.

WhatMattersMost · 29/05/2021 09:03

@Beauxandarrow

I have trouble trusting my instincts and it’s landed me in hot water before so I really am trying to listen to myself on this occasion.

I can’t understand the logic of pleading guilty to something you didn’t do. Even if he did lose his job, surely that’s better than having a conviction?
It seems like a well put together lie.

I would walk away right now - moreso because of what you write in your first paragraph, above.

Sicario · 29/05/2021 09:06

Given that the vast majority of sexual assault cases never make it to a court - it is only the most serious cases, with overwhelming evidence, that get to court - RUN.

This is a no brainer. Block him.

HollowTalk · 29/05/2021 09:07

I would run really fast. Has it actually gone to court yet?

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