Being verbally abused in an argument

[Wherediditgo]

Things have not been good between my husband and me for some time. We’ve spent long weeks and even months not speaking. I’ve rarely been able to be myself for quite sometime. We have a toddler.

On Friday, I went for a drink with a friend. I haven’t done this for many years (even pre-Covid) as I would usually just go to that person’s house/garden (restrictions permitting)
DH seemed to think it was a good idea and was encouraging. This is out of character for him but he seemed to be making a real effort lately. He even said I should get a taxi and enjoy myself.

So off I went. I left just after 8pm and realised the time at 11.20 and went outside to call him. He had called me ten minutes prior but I hadn’t heard my phone ring. He had a go and told me I was selfish etc. I didn’t end up getting in until 1am but after our phone call, I text him every half an hour so he would know I was ok.

We had an argument about it yesterday, I’m ashamed to say, in front on my son. My behaviour certainly wasn’t exemplary - I shouted and (ashamed to say) I did swear.

However, DH strode across the kitchen and shouted and swore in my face. I felt intimidated. He walked off shouting ‘fucking scumbag’ over and over at me. It’s not the first time he has spoken to me like this and not the first time he has done this in front of my son

I tried to explain afterwards that I felt intimidated. He said that I was actually the aggressor as I had followed him in to the kitchen after he had walked off. He walked off when I was halfway through having my say and I was stood about 3 metres away from him?! He kept shouting ‘I don’t care’ when I was trying to say my piece which is when I shouted at him to shut up. That’s when he strode over to me and shouted and swore in my face.

I’m thinking of leaving him but I’m not certain?! Our marriage hasn’t been good for a long time and I’ve closed myself off to him. He was seemingly trying lately but he threw all that back in my face when we argued.

I just don’t know what to do. I feel ashamed that my son had to witness it. I think us not being together anymore might be better for him.

Oh no this can't continue. You need to leave unless the two of you really commit to change and seek professional help.

Should any small child be living in this frightening, toxic environment?

No.

Does your son deserve better?

Yes.

Get out now

This is the thing.
We tried to do a version of counselling this year - more a self help thing though on the internet.
I hated it. I feel like I don’t want to work on it and feel I would be happier if I was on my own

However, I’m terrified of making a big mistake and I feel as though I’m being very selfish. Things haven’t been good for years really. We’ve been together a long time so I feel as though I don’t know any different. I don’t trust my instincts and don’t know if my perception of our relationship is normal.

I might be wrong but could your husband have been on his best behaviour so he could try and make you feel twice as bad as soon as you put a foot wrong (in his eyes)? His reaction to you being out that late and not hearing your phone, despite you texting every half hour, is rather extreme. I certainly don't think it comes from worrying about you!

It doesn't sound like a healthy relationship and certainly not if you're arguing in front of the LO.

I’m thinking of leaving him but I’m not certain?

What would be your reasons for staying?

This latest push of wanting to leave is more for my son. I don’t want to damage him. He doesn’t deserve it.

Cross posted. From what you say I think you'll be much happier if you leave and life will be much calmer for your son.

I was with my ex for a long time and didn't know any different but I do now and it's bliss!

What would be your reasons for staying?

I think I worry I would regret leaving.

The only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none.

I would contact Womens Aid and discuss your options with them.

Re your night out he has likely conditioned you over time into calling him and you did the same that evening by texting him repeatedly. He did not like you going out at all and I note he called you repeatedly too. Controlling men do such behaviour and controlling behaviour is abusive behaviour. When he decided that this level of controlling you was not sufficient he started to verbally abuse you. Sadly your son was present as well. He absolutely cannot afford to grow up seeing abuse from his father towards you as his mother because he could go onto repeat that in his own relationships.

You and your H should no longer be together and I would also seek legal advice asap.

If you're at the point where you don't even want to work on it, then you're done. It's okay to leave, you know? If a relationship isn't working, then it isn't working. You don't have to get to the point of physically abusing each other or shagging someone else before you end it.

Maybe this book would help you think things through
Too Good To Leave, Too Bad To Stay

@AttilaTheMeerkat

The only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none.

I would contact Womens Aid and discuss your options with them.

Re your night out he has likely conditioned you over time into calling him and you did the same that evening by texting him repeatedly. He did not like you going out at all and I note he called you repeatedly too. Controlling men do such behaviour and controlling behaviour is abusive behaviour. When he decided that this level of controlling you was not sufficient he started to verbally abuse you. Sadly your son was present as well. He absolutely cannot afford to grow up seeing abuse from his father towards you as his mother because he could go onto repeat that in his own relationships.

You and your H should no longer be together and I would also seek legal advice asap.

Thank you. I am very fortunate in that I earn the same as he does and financially, splitting up wouldn’t be an issue. Do I need to call women’s aid? I don’t feel like I am being abused. He has never hit me and I honestly don’t think he ever would. The argument certainly wasn’t one sided and I am ashamed of my actions too

Joint counselling is a non starter here because he is and remains abusive towards you. Its not recommended either when there is abuse of any type within the relationship.

Plan your exit with due care and attention.

Re your comment:-
"I think I worry I would regret leaving".

Why?. Ask yourself why that is.

Just as an aside, texting your husband every half hour to let him know you're ok isn't normal. Why do you feel you need to do this? Does he expect it?

He was aggressive to you, wound you up, shouted in your face and then tried to gaslight you by saying you were the aggressor, because you shouted/followed him. Guessing he's bigger than you/could do you more harm if he hurt you? Getting up in someone's face is threatening behaviour designed to intimate and removed you off this.

Guessing there's more aggressive/controlling behaviours going on from him than listed in this thread.

Abuse is not just physical in nature and he could not even let you off the leash for a night out. He has you conditioned to call him and he called you repeatedly. He has you in a cage of his own paranoid making. Such controlling behaviour is rooted in abuse; he wants absolute power and control over you here. You reacted to his shouting by calling him out on this. He manufactured this whole argument by shouting and screaming in your face. He is angry because he is abusive, not just because he is angry.

I would not put it past him either to further try and "punish" and or otherwise be obstructive towards you if and when you start divorce proceedings.

I would also suggest you read "Why does he do that?" written by Lundy Bancroft.

Something was off about his being all fine with you going out and then monstering you when you missed his call. Maybe like he was setting you up to fail so he could punish you. When you were not sufficiently cowed to run straight home, he upped the punishment - so you will not be wanting to go out again in a hurry.

The relationship does not sound good aside from this, and he does sound abusive. It is OK to leave if you are done with this relationship.

@Wherediditgo

What would be your reasons for staying?

I think I worry I would regret leaving.

There was a thread on here recently asking if anyone regretted leaving. No is the short answer. Lots of people saying they only regretted not leaving sooner.

Why did you need to call him, and repeatedly text to say you were OK? Was there a reason for him to think you wouldn't be OK, or is he being controlling?

If you are not happy in a relationship that is a good enough reason to leave, and it doesn't sound like you have been happy for a long time.

Also sorry, just noticed you said: "DH seemed to think it was a good idea and was encouraging. This is out of character for him" suggesting he doesn't normally think it's a "good idea" for you to go out with friends. Uh oh.

A child cannot be around this. That is an absolute non-negotiable, regardless of who is in the wrong or any dynamics here.

But it also sounds like he is abusive too

This isn’t a healthy environment for any of you. Also if you have been unhappy for years and counseling didn’t work, there’s your answer...how likely is it things will improve beyond this point ?

Thing is, he is able to explain his point of view in such a rational and calm way (either before, or straight after the argument) that I usually end up believing he is right.

I’ve been subject to some form or emotional and/or physical abuse since I was a child. From parents, to being bullied at school and then in the work place to being in some pretty shitty relationships.
I’ve been in much worse relationships than this one so in comparison, it seems as though I don’t have it so bad.

But I have very little self esteem or self worth. I don’t want my son to feel the same way as he grows up.

I definitely need some form of therapy!

Thank you for all of your replies.

@Wherediditgo

Thing is, he is able to explain his point of view in such a rational and calm way (either before, or straight after the argument) that I usually end up believing he is right.

I’ve been subject to some form or emotional and/or physical abuse since I was a child. From parents, to being bullied at school and then in the work place to being in some pretty shitty relationships.
I’ve been in much worse relationships than this one so in comparison, it seems as though I don’t have it so bad.

But I have very little self esteem or self worth. I don’t want my son to feel the same way as he grows up.

I definitely need some form of therapy!

Thank you for all of your replies.

That's literally gaslighting, OP. He knows what he's doing. People like that are very clever. It's designed to make you doubt yourself and think you're the mad/unreasonable one.

Yes op he has you trained well. People who have been abused in childhood have a high tolerance for others behaviour.
I was wondering if you had an abusive back group.
He is very skilled in what he does.
He was looking for an opportunity to abuse you verbally.
He engineered it.
Yes leave for your sons sake - it will damage him as it’s toxic.
Seek counselling for yourself. 💐

I definitely need some form of therapy!

I second Attila's suggestion of contacting Women's Aid. I too thought I didn't need them, how wrong I was! They will help guide you through how to leave in the safest way and be a support for as long as you need them. Keep posting here too, there are many of us who have been in similar situations and understand what you're going through

I usually end up believing he is right

My ex was like that too - so much so that it didn't even occur to me I could end the marriage because I subconsciously knew I had no chance again his quick thinking clever words that would leave me feeling stupid. Again.

I very much doubt you will regret ending this relationship. You may well have wobbles when you're grieving for the one you should have had but when you're living a calm life where you're sure of the decisions you make and enjoying the peace, you'll know you made the right decision