Being verbally abused in an argument

[Wherediditgo]

Things have not been good between my husband and me for some time. We’ve spent long weeks and even months not speaking. I’ve rarely been able to be myself for quite sometime. We have a toddler.

On Friday, I went for a drink with a friend. I haven’t done this for many years (even pre-Covid) as I would usually just go to that person’s house/garden (restrictions permitting)
DH seemed to think it was a good idea and was encouraging. This is out of character for him but he seemed to be making a real effort lately. He even said I should get a taxi and enjoy myself.

So off I went. I left just after 8pm and realised the time at 11.20 and went outside to call him. He had called me ten minutes prior but I hadn’t heard my phone ring. He had a go and told me I was selfish etc. I didn’t end up getting in until 1am but after our phone call, I text him every half an hour so he would know I was ok.

We had an argument about it yesterday, I’m ashamed to say, in front on my son. My behaviour certainly wasn’t exemplary - I shouted and (ashamed to say) I did swear.

However, DH strode across the kitchen and shouted and swore in my face. I felt intimidated. He walked off shouting ‘fucking scumbag’ over and over at me. It’s not the first time he has spoken to me like this and not the first time he has done this in front of my son

I tried to explain afterwards that I felt intimidated. He said that I was actually the aggressor as I had followed him in to the kitchen after he had walked off. He walked off when I was halfway through having my say and I was stood about 3 metres away from him?! He kept shouting ‘I don’t care’ when I was trying to say my piece which is when I shouted at him to shut up. That’s when he strode over to me and shouted and swore in my face.

I’m thinking of leaving him but I’m not certain?! Our marriage hasn’t been good for a long time and I’ve closed myself off to him. He was seemingly trying lately but he threw all that back in my face when we argued.

I just don’t know what to do. I feel ashamed that my son had to witness it. I think us not being together anymore might be better for him.

While this book is not perfect, what is, and is primarily about physical abuse .... It deals with all abuse and abusive mindsets very well;

Lundy Bancroft, why does he do that ...

He hits on the point that abuse is basically a values issue, not an anger issue or a stress issue etc etc. A values issue. Those men behave like that because their values tell them they are being mistreated, disrespected etc when women do a, b, or c (night out alone) and they feel entitled to berate her, upbraid her, "punish" her, abuse her etc.

When you realise it, you can see it really clearly in lots of things they say and lots of attitudes.

That's why I have such little faith in your h changing (permanently changing).

The one I had a relationship with was also penitent at times - when he realised he'd gone a bit too far, that he was in possible danger of being finished with .. he even sat with tears in his eyes once, he says "it was hard but he'd try" ..... Did he stop or change? .. the fuck he did.

I’ve had some tears from him too.

After reading this thread and speaking to women’s aid, he has become like a total stranger to me. I keep thinking over things that have happened and seeing it fit with the pattern.

Then I’ve read on here that the most dangerous time is when you try to leave. I’m not sure how to manage my exit out of this at the moment. I need some head space!

Thanks again for the replies.

They also do what they do (on top of not being able to contain their rage and offence at how they're being treated) because they know you'll amend your behaviour and they'll get more control. He's clearly been doing something to date to have you in a flurry of texting when you missed his call.

Incidentally a call is quite intrusive and unnecessary on a night out; I would tend to text if I had to (and vice versa) rather than call. It intrudes a bit into someone's time out from home, head space, any convk you might be having with mates etc. It says a lot he chose to call instead of a simple message in the first place.

@Comtesse

The night out sounds like a bait and switch move. But I would be more concerned about not speaking to each other for MONTHS at a time as you mention in your OP. That is utterly awful and your toddler will be picking up that tension. What’s the story there - who is stonewalling who? I mean - it doesn’t really matter, it’s dysfunctional anyhow, but just wondered what the dynamic was....

I’m honestly not sure. It’s always him falling out with me over something - usually he will sulk or give me the silent treatment. I used to hate it and would badger him to find out what I’d done wrong.

This year, I took it as an opportunity to get some distance. A feeling of relief when I could go to bed early and watch TV without feeling guilty. I appreciate this is not good for my son. It’s my main reason behind wanting to leave.

@Wherediditgo

I’ve had some tears from him too.

After reading this thread and speaking to women’s aid, he has become like a total stranger to me. I keep thinking over things that have happened and seeing it fit with the pattern.

Then I’ve read on here that the most dangerous time is when you try to leave. I’m not sure how to manage my exit out of this at the moment. I need some head space!

Thanks again for the replies.

Women's aid would be able to help you with that.

Please make sure he had no access to your browsing etc history.

Whatever you do, it's a great thing that you're seeing his behaviour more clearly and he's not got you on the fog any more.

My husband would never call me what yours called you, whatever the circumstances (nor would I him). Certainly not in front of the kids.
Completely unacceptable.

@MarshmallowAra

They also do what they do (on top of not being able to contain their rage and offence at how they're being treated) because they know you'll amend your behaviour and they'll get more control. He's clearly been doing something to date to have you in a flurry of texting when you missed his call.

Incidentally a call is quite intrusive and unnecessary on a night out; I would tend to text if I had to (and vice versa) rather than call. It intrudes a bit into someone's time out from home, head space, any convk you might be having with mates etc. It says a lot he chose to call instead of a simple message in the first place.

You’re right. He usually phones me every couple of hours when he is at work too (I WFH at the moment). I can’t stand it.

He knows I post on here actually. Not sure if he knows my username though. Didn’t think that one through!!

He usually phones me every couple of hours when he is at work too (I WFH at the moment). I can’t stand it.

It sounds like he has a serious issue with control, possessiveness .. whatever.

In my experience, people like this don't really change. They just find someone willing to put up with it (of course they'll rein it in early on) or go through successive partners where the relationships last as long as it takes for their behaviour to show and however long the person puts up with it. Many women will put up with it for quite some time esp if children are involved.
That's how they can look functional (in relationships).

Op sending you strength to deal with this, its a lot to process I know. Just go at your own pace.

If you want to explore how to leave:
Womens aid and refuge have lots of advice on planning your exit safely, I'm going to leave some links here for you to look at if you choose to leave:

www.refuge.org.uk/get-help-now/support-for-women/planning-to-leave/

www.refuge.org.uk/get-help-now/safety-planning-leaving-abuser/

www.refuge.org.uk/get-help-now/safety-planning-living-with-partner/

If you feel you need to take out an injunction against your partner, then these people are brilliant. I've been through the process with them and they were great. Legal aid is available if needed and if you need one after you've left and don't want your partner to know where you live then you request that your address is kept off the documents.

You don't need to have experienced domestic violence to apply for an emergency non molestation order. You can also request a Mackenzie friend to assist you, they cannot provide legal advice but can explain and break down the legal stuff that's happening so you know how to respond to it.

www.ncdv.org.uk/

www.womensaid.org.uk/the-survivors-handbook/

You can change your username here as well if you prefer to help maintain privacy.

@Wherediditgo, I get the wanting to be sure about leaving. I achieved this through (individual) counselling with someone familiar with the dynamics of abusive relationships, and ended up leaving my 20 year marriage. The counselling was invaluable in helping me to clarify what 'being sure' looked like to me. She was also great in helping me to plan my exit with my dc as safely as possible. My ex was very similar in his behaviour when I went out. He would keep texting with unnecessary updates about the kids and would insist on picking me up afterwards. It took me far too long to realise that this was because he wanted to make sure he controlled when my evening out ended. And my ex was a master at squeezing out a few crocodile tears if he realised he had pushed me too far.

Thank you for these replies and for the links. I will definitely have a read through.

We had a big heart to heart last night. He admitted his behaviour has been awful and started to explain a particularly toxic relationship he was in when he was very young. He thinks this is why he has behaved the way he has. It’s hard to put the whole conversation down here but he seemed very sincere. Said he wouldn’t blame me for leaving - there were tears... not mine, I hasten to add.

Oddly, I didn’t feel much. I think I’ve closed off a bit at a time over the course of our marriage and may have reached that point where I have lost the capacity to forgive him.

started to explain a particularly toxic relationship he was in when he was very young. He thinks this is why he has behaved the way he has

Call me harsh but .. excuses excuses.

If you've been through a toxic relationship and been treated badly; wouldn't you not want to treat another person you cared about like that, wouldn't you not want them to feel like you did?

Where does calling you a scum bag etc come into this "damaged by past toxic relationship" narrative.

I wouldn't be too sure he wasn't at least half or more responsible for that toxic relationship.

The bloke I was in a relationship like this had lots of stories about exes, one particular ex who seemed to be his biggest fixation; she'd physically attached him, she'd but him and all he'd done was put his hands up to his head and his head down to protect himself. She was volatile on alcohol, she's kicked his back door and left damage, she'd banged her head off the door architrave in his house, she'd threatened to throw herself down the stairs and blame him, she'd tried to jump out if his vehicle while it was moving, she was jealous, paranoid and insecure etc etc
.....

After a year and s bug in a relationship with him, I discovered he was jealous, possessive, paranoid, insecure and controlling .... And I fully fully understood why someone in the receiving end of his behaviour would become irate and frustrated and maddened to the point of hurting themselves or hitting things (or even him). I never hit him and never would have, but I found myself screaming incoherently down the phone etc at him while on the receiving end of yet more of the seemingly endless berating and upbraiding about every thing is said, done etc. I was then called a psycho by him.

I doubt your h's toxic relationship was one sided. A d now he's using it as an excuse for abusing you.

There's a lot of poor me, you should support me shit going on here seemingly..

*I'd said, done etc.

If you've been through a toxic relationship and been treated badly; wouldn't you not want to treat another person you cared about like that, wouldn't you not want them to feel like you did?

I said this to him. I resisted the temptation to comfort him and said I wasn’t trying to minimise but I had been in an extremely toxic relationship when I was younger - mental/emotional and physical abuse. It was horrific and I became very ill. But as I said to him, I never carried that forward and treated anyone else that way.

He said he is trying to protect himself for feeling like a ‘mug’

These are excuses, not reasons. He's got a bag of excuses to use on you.
Let him work through his issues - without you or you toddler having to watch.

He said he is trying to protect himself for feeling like a ‘mug’

That just makes me think back to the point I gleaned from the Bancroft book, and from experience of that relationship; that men like this feel like mugs or potential mugs in ordinary, reasonable scenarios in relationships (someone getting a night out on their own occasionally) because of their values (and issues I suppose).

They feel like mugs or potential mugs .. and they feel entitled in their anger & resentment about that, and they feel entitled in their abuse as a result of that.

It may sound harsh but what he said about an early "toxic" relationship ax an attempted excuse makes me think it's just proof he's been like this in relationships from the start. I bet that early girlfriend would have an interesting side of the story to tell.

Update:
I’ve had a long, long email from DH. Apologising for everything and stating that he has booked in to see a therapist about the way he acts.

I just feel empty. Why couldn’t he have done this years ago? If I stay I feel like I would fighting for something that’s already dead and I don’t think my heart is in it. But I feel so awful that he is now trying and I don’t want to be here anymore.

Sounds woo but he is on his own journey and you are on yours.
While it sounds good that he is promising to work on himself, that's all it is - words on a screen.
You don't owe him your time, your life is as precious as his.
Let him do his thing. In 6 or 12 months or 2 years you will be able to see if that long email promising change had any effect. But even then, you won't owe him one minute of your time.

Please do read Lundy Bancroft Why Does He Do That. It will help you identify the patterns and avoid them in future.

Re the argument, is swearing and shouting normal for you?
It sounds like you just snapped after a good deal of provocation.

Even if you decide not to continue with this relationship, he still should go ahead with the councilling otherwise all his relationships will end up like this one.

That's bullshit op and goes to show that he knows his behaviour is wrong, so why didnt he try and fix it before? Because he doesn't want to fix it, this is just changing tactics because you are not accepting it anymore.

I was treated badly in a few relationships and all that did is make me damn sure that I would never do this (or accept it again).

@MondayYogurt

Sounds woo but he is on his own journey and you are on yours. While it sounds good that he is promising to work on himself, that's all it is - words on a screen. You don't owe him your time, your life is as precious as his. Let him do his thing. In 6 or 12 months or 2 years you will be able to see if that long email promising change had any effect. But even then, you won't owe him one minute of your time.

Please do read Lundy Bancroft Why Does He Do That. It will help you identify the patterns and avoid them in future.

Thank you. I will order that book - I’ve seen it mentioned a few times on here.

The enormity of it all is hitting me like a ton of bricks today.

Funny how treating you badly for what sounds like s long time wasn't enough to make him go for therapy, but you looking like you've had enough and might leave is somehow enough - suggests he's actually fine with being how he is as long as you're willing to put up with it (?)

Call me cynical but I think it's a tactic.

I doubt he'll even go for the therapy if you separate (if he doesn't think it'll be something to make you stay) and even if he does go; men like him change so rarely.

Lundy Bancroft discussed how men like that can also fool counsellors etc quite well when they go for therapy. You need a really switched on person not to be distracted by all the sleight of hands and manipulations and excuses.

The enormity of it all is hitting me like a ton of bricks today.

You need time to process. You don't owe him any answers or planning or help.
Take your own time to process this. Reading up and educating yourself will definitely assist.