Is it just me or does most men suck?

[peanutttttt]

Exactly just that. I really hate dating now a days, because you just never know if someone's intentions are genuine. Like how do you know anymore? Men of all ages just suck and at this point I have given up. I went on a date with this man, the connection was great before the date and the date was great. I even got a kiss at the end of it but never heard from him again. Like how weird! I don't dwell on it. It's just annoying I wish people would be honest now. I can't stand it. How's everyone else's dating life going? Because my love life is an absolute joke.

@TorringtonDean

Well yes, some men have always abandoned their children, which is one reason church and state enforced marriage to tie them to their responsibilities. But then that also made women tied to bad relationships and treated as chattels.

Now we have something called equality. We are meant to have it in the workplace - although we don’t as there is a gender pay gap. We certainly don’t have it in the home! I had a good career and kids and (female of course) also did the lion’s share of domestic tasks. My ex-husband was a passenger in the relationship then waltzed away with 55%. That is not equal or fair. But it is typically male!

Yes but a large reason there is a gender pay gap is because women pause their careers when they have children. So do we try and get women to not want children or try and encourage more men to want them? Or do we tax men more than women so as there is a bigger safety net for women who do have them? I'm just trying to untie all this and see what the solutions are.

Maybe men should be encouraged to take an equal amount of time out of their career! Do we try to get women not to want children??!! Are you serious? We have birth control but we do need the human race to continue. A replacement level of kids seems about right. In the past biology alone dictated that women had children, now there is a little more choice.

Most of the gender pay gap stuff seems to ignore the fact that men do have children just as much as women do - they just shirk their responsibilities when it comes to raising them.

Why do women so often have to sacrifice their careers? Because men don’t do their share. It’s not always about women having a “choice”, not at all. But 90% of women at least do recognise their responsibilities to their children. I tried to continue working full time with kids - not least because I was the higher earner and we as a family needed the money. But my ex didn’t do his share at home so it became impossible and I had to go part time. I still earned more than double what he did though.

@TorringtonDean I'm not very good at articulating myself through writing so apologies if we're crossing wires here however my point is:

I believe if we encourage men to take on more childcare responsibilities and take time out of their career a large portion of men will simply decide not to have children. I also believe women on the whole will do the opposite, sacrifice themselves and their career to have children. This leads us back to where we are now.

Now there is an argument as to whether this is innate in us or whether it is formed by society but the point remains that this exists.

Of course if you're arguing people selflessly have children to advance the human race then I would agree we all have an imperative to work together and make it as equal as possible between men and women. My understanding is most people have children for selfish reasons though.

Before birth control having children was just seen as part of life and one of the more pleasant parts of being human. Now, apparently it’s a selfish lifestyle choice. None of us would be here If some people had not put in the heavy lifting.

I know of plenty of men who do claim they’d prefer more time with kids but don’t have a choice. Of course some think being at home with small kids is just a big holiday but then they’ve never tried it.

Before birth control children were often a consequence of wanting to have sex, not wanting to have a child.

If you're arguing people are having children, not because they want them but rather for the good of mankind then I'll have to disagree with you there.

I’m not saying people have children for the good of mankind. I’m saying both men and women have children - which is often forgotten in the workplace. So men and women should contribute equally to raising them in terms of careers sacrificed and time off work.

Back to the original question of why men suck. Lots don’t but the system does enable them to treat women badly and then walk away. In particular they can abandon their kids without any consequence. In my case I have no wish to be legally ripped off and made to work as a domestic servant to boot for anyone else.

Well it's more how things transpired and I think I would be judged well in the circumstances of what happened in my situation but I'd rather leave it at that

I'm sure in your own mind you are, yes. That's my whole point really.

I also have had the overwhelming experience of myself and most of my peers, that men do not raise their children as adequately as women.

Now I know that is a massive statement to make, and a generalisation. However now I’ve had some years on me, it really is quite marked the difference. Almost all the men I know (including my Ex) when separated are either Disney Dads or spend a lot of time with their female relations or new GF when they have their kids. I know of very few who are actively involved in health, education, structure, mental wellbeing of their children in the way that women are. My own Ex took our child to his mum’s house every single contact weekend. So I am cynical even of Dad’s who do 50/50. There’s a thread at the moment of a step mum whos’ suddenly been told that she’s expected to now do the parenting of the father’s kids - and many posters are saying that of course she should!

It’s a bit crazy as I’m sure most men are perfectly capable.

@TorringtonDean

I’m not saying people have children for the good of mankind. I’m saying both men and women have children - which is often forgotten in the workplace. So men and women should contribute equally to raising them in terms of careers sacrificed and time off work.

Back to the original question of why men suck. Lots don’t but the system does enable them to treat women badly and then walk away. In particular they can abandon their kids without any consequence. In my case I have no wish to be legally ripped off and made to work as a domestic servant to boot for anyone else.

The issue is men don't want to raise them equally so how do we get around this?

I am a widow. I will always miss my lovely DH and the life we had, but I am absolutely fine, and actually very happy, on my own.

DH was absolutely the best husband and dad, and I loved being married to him. But I don't have any desire at all for another relationship - it just doesn't appeal to me. There would be none of the shared history and memories that I had with DH.

I enjoy my life very much, and have come to the conclusion that there is nothing a man could possibly add to it. I love being in total control of my home, time and money. I have my house, my job, my kind and funny DC and my amazing female friends, and that's genuinely all I want and need :)

@TorringtonDean

First of all it’s not true that it’s only women wanting children! I’d say my ex-husband was keener than I was initially. Children are not pets or playthings, they are humans and the building blocks of all human society! You can’t ignore them or abandon them on a whim - which many men seem to do. I wonder really how on Earth they can do it.

Absolutely true!!! And if men are going to act like they are pets they can’t very well complain after separation that they suddenly get skewed against

@coronaway

You need to stop saying the pay gap is mostly about women having babies . By doing so you are ignoring the systemic discrimination , devaluing of women’s skills and abilities and historical impact of womens oppression

OLD WOMEN , CHILDLESS women , women from all walks of life are being affected by the gender pay gap !!!!!!

And besides , this thread is about the many ways in which men suck . Shirking their responsibilities whilst a woman is around to carry all the childcare and then whining about not getting a fair go in court and having to pay child support is just one of the many fucked up things they do .... so back to why men suck , let me count the ways .............

@coronaway

Sorry for being dense but are we saying the gender pay gap is a problem or it's not a problem as it's a choice?

I'm trying to work out my own thoughts on this. I would ideally like a higher earning partner so it would allow me to work part time and do more childcare. Is this thinking acceptable or have I been brainwashed by society? If it is acceptable and widespread then the pay gap will always be present.

Yes, it's socialisation. Women are perfectly capable of the high earning roles these apparently desireable men have. Many of them do have flexible working options/ PT options etc at a certain level of seniority. Why are women not aspiring to achieve this for themselves then have children so that they can spend lots of time with their children and provide for themselves and not seek a man to do so? I really do not understand it.

It’s so depressing isn’t it. I started life so full of hope and didn’t assume so many men were shirking until it was all too late!

I’m very glad that there are some good stories out there though @samandpoppysmummy

I’d have loved a happy marriage! Sorry about your loss. And now I’m carrying the can, SN child, career gap too big ever to close, Ex is a complete pain and would forget to even get our child to brush their teeth on contact so making him have more contact is a bit like child neglect! And these are the relatively nice guys.

Online dating... if only my ex hadn’t spent out last years of marriage on it which has totally out me off! He duped so many women. He used to put on it that he was for ‘casual’ but that he was open to the possibility of it being more. He dated about 100 women! All of whom had no idea he was married with a SN child on top of that. None of those women know that they were duped as I’m sure some of them were optimistic it would turn into more. He used to send them pictures of our house and his car! Just to impress them I think - reel them in. Looked so stable and was obviously making sure they knew he earned well. What the?!

I do have a couple of lovely male friends though. Unfortunately not dateable as they are commitment phobes. Which is probably why they are friends.. sigh sigh sigh .

@Oreo01

Blimey, you’re getting a kicking......

Give it up.

All the troubles of the world are being laid at the feet of white, middle aged men at the moment, it would seem.

[quote Fabiofatshaft1]@Oreo01

Blimey, you’re getting a kicking......

Give it up.

All the troubles of the world are being laid at the feet of white, middle aged men at the moment, it would seem.[/quote]
Yes I'm a misogynistic and failing to recognise my male privilege.

I think Bill Burr joked something along the lines of complain all you like white ladies but you were in the hot tub with us....

I don't actually disagree with a lot of what is being said but there should be more balance. But I don't think that's the point of this thread so I will step away....

Yeah poor menz getting all the problems they created laid at their feet...... sob sob

Fabiofatshaft ???? Yeah sounds like a really grounded down to earth guy who cares about equality and not at all some guy in mummy’s basement watching way too much porn !!!!!!

@SilenceIsNotAvailable do you think the tide is turning on this? Is the future looking brighter or not?

Regrettably I'm too old now to have children even though I would have loved them. The only plus side is at least my career is flourishing as a result.

I'm just not sure what the answer is really.

[quote coronaway]@SilenceIsNotAvailable do you think the tide is turning on this? Is the future looking brighter or not?

Regrettably I'm too old now to have children even though I would have loved them. The only plus side is at least my career is flourishing as a result.

I'm just not sure what the answer is really.[/quote]
I’m confused. In an earlier list yoh said this

‘I'm trying to work out my own thoughts on this. I would ideally like a higher earning partner so it would allow me to work part time and do more childcare. Is this thinking acceptable or have I been brainwashed by society? If it is acceptable and widespread then the pay gap will always be present.’

?????????

Are you a woman or a man ?

I believe if we encourage men to take on more childcare responsibilities and take time out of their career a large portion of men will simply decide not to have children. I also believe women on the whole will do the opposite, sacrifice themselves and their career to have children
But they don't ....birth rates are dropping everywhere as women realise it's not in their interest to have children
www.nytimes.com/2021/05/22/world/global-population-shrinking.html
'That declining birthrate, coupled with a rapid industrialization that has pushed people from rural towns to big cities, has created what can feel like a two-tiered society. While major metropolises like Seoul continue to grow, putting intense pressure on infrastructure and housing, in regional towns it’s easy to find schools shut and abandoned, their playgrounds overgrown with weeds, because there are not enough children.
Expectant mothers in many areas can no longer find obstetricians or postnatal care centers. Universities below the elite level, especially outside Seoul, find it increasingly hard to fill their ranks — the number of 18-year-olds in South Korea has fallen from about 900,000 in 1992 to 500,000 today. To attract students, some schools have offered scholarships and even iPhones.

To goose the birthrate, the government has handed out baby bonuses. It increased child allowances and medical subsidies for fertility treatments and pregnancy. Health officials have showered newborns with gifts of beef, baby clothes and toys. The government is also building kindergartens and day care centers by the hundreds. In Seoul, every bus and subway car has pink seats reserved for pregnant women.

But this month, Deputy Prime Minister Hong Nam-ki admitted that the government — which has spent more than $178 billion over the past 15 years encouraging women to have more babies — was not making enough progress. In many families, the shift feels cultural and permanent'

[quote coronaway]@SilenceIsNotAvailable do you think the tide is turning on this? Is the future looking brighter or not?

Regrettably I'm too old now to have children even though I would have loved them. The only plus side is at least my career is flourishing as a result.

I'm just not sure what the answer is really.[/quote]
I would say the future is brighter for women,
Females now make up > 55% of young people in higher education, these females are going to get the best opportunities, the best options and go on to be the future leaders and decision makers, business leaders and entrepreneurs, access to better jobs.

Where I work the graduate intake is probably 60% female, those grads are on the fast track to management roles, people who decide pay grades, career policies etc.
With young females 30% more likely to go to universities than young men in the UK, I would say the future is much brighter for younger females in the UK.

The only downside to this could be a lack of suitable partners for these young women as boys and young men continue to fall behind in all levels of education in the western world.

The “boys to men”, report from the Hepi is a fascinating read at covers, gender, pay, background, and generally goes to say that females are overtaking males at all levels of education as reported by the OECD

Sorry to derail this thread.