So you think narcissists knows they are behaving narcissistic

[Nicky2021]

Just sat thinking.
Do you think they know exactly what they are doing and saying?
Or do you think sometimes they actually believe that how they are acting is acceptable and normal?
In my experience I genuinely believe he thinks he is behaving normally and hasn’t done anything wrong and when he tells me that I infact did these things not him, I think he genuinely believes himself.
What are your thoughts?

I agree with @NeedCoffeeToSurvive I had a message on Instagram come through Sunday night from the girlfriend of my narc ex’s boss. She told me her partner (ex’s boss) has been coming home telling her what he’s been saying about me, one of the things she was told that prompted her to get in contact was ‘yeah I’ve been upsetting her her on purpose then ignoring her, or I’ll just pretend I’ve no idea what’s she’s going on about and call her crazy’ and ‘I’ll just ignore her when she asks about maintenance or the kids, let her fester so she thinks she’s going mad’ were his exact words apparently.

She went on to say she’d be emotionally abused by her ex and thought I deserved to know what he’s been admitting to.

So yes I do think they know exactly what they’re doing, they just enjoy it so carry on.

I really don't think mine is clever enough to have it all planned and intend to do it, it's just his general personality. I never want to talk to him because I know whatever we discuss, he'll be right and I'll be wrong, and I get so flustered I just back down. He thinks everything in our relationship is OK as it is (it isn't) and when I finally told him I was unhappy, his reaction was 'oh so you just woke up one day and decided after all this time you're not happy???!' Well no, it's a million things piled up on top of other things for years which has finally broken me. And then having watched me cry my heart out, we just go back to normal and he can't understand why I don't talk to him much or want to spend any time with him. He just thinks it's me. He does not see that it's him. I didn't recognise any of this as NPD until I spoke to a friend who asked me about all kinds of things he might do, and they were all exactly him! But, again, I don't think he means to do it, he just does it, if that makes sense.

Another one here who thinks they know exactly what they're doing which is why they don't do it to everybody.

And I believe they are born like it, because if they were raised like it, then siblings would all be narcassists and thats not the case.

I think the behaviour comes naturally to them, but they are aware on some level and can rein it in if they want to.

My STBXH mentioned above with the Poor Me act genuinely feels sorry for himself I'm sure, but I'm certain he is being totally frustrating and obstructive with the divorce because he knows full well how berserk it will be driving me - and it bloody well is

There is a big difference between knowing what they are doing, and self realization that it is wrong. One of the reasons true NPD is so insidious and is incurable or even manageable is that the Narc truly believes they are doing nothing wrong. In their reality, they are always and fully right and justified. Without the ability to contrast right and wrong, there is no possible way to get a narc to self realize anything wrong with their behaviour.

Discussing, reasoning, pointing things out inevitably leads to gaslighting, denial, lashing out because the reality the narc lives in is completely disassociated from the reality of the other person.

It's scary there's so many of them as I've never come across this before, my husband never had much empathy but when it's him that's causing the hurt he really has zero empathy at all because he thinks he's right. Definitely think it's just within him, and I do think he knows what he's doing.

I think they know that they're being manipulative and when they first tell a lie, they know they're lying. However, after they've told the lie it becomes a truth to them because they live in a fantasy world where they're the victim and everyone else is at fault. They seem to believe that they are deserving and entitled to different treatment but no one else is also entitled to that same treatment

I believe my brother is a narc. It is horrendous. Won’t bore with all the details but I have just finished six weeks of counselling after the trauma he has caused became too much

And like other comments above- I believe he does know he has caused hurt but genuinely doesn’t care. All he cares about his himself. Beyond egotistical and highly manipulative.

I believe they are aware that their inner world isn't real but push it away as they can't stand the fact that they aren't super smart, clever, a victim and God's gift to others. It's on the peripherals of their mind but they keep pushing it away.

My ex definitely believes everything that comes out of his mouth. He is capable of believing one thing one day, and the next he will believe the opposite if it suits his narrative.

They are irrational, you can't reason with or understand them. Dr Ramani on YouTube has actually been super helpful to watch me. Her talks have hammered home that he is not normal and also gave me interesting insight into his behaviour patterns. Once I saw those he has become very predictable, I am no longer surprised by what he does or says about me which is comforting.

There must be an element of knowing what they are doing is cruel, unreasonable, unacceptable etc. because its usually done in a cunning way with lies or gaslighting or two-facedness - everyone thinking they are "great fun" and "such a great guy" whilst being immeasurably cruel behind closed doors. Though you will rarely see a narc admitting that they have lied, and even less likely that they have been wrong.

But I do think true narcs really believe that they are the best, always right, special and deserving and their ruthless cruelty is simply because they want want they want including adulation and power, and everyone believing in their chosen narrative.

My friend's husband was/is a narc. During their marriage I thought he was great fun, a really nice guy and good dad. He fell out of love with friend and wanted out of the marriage but rather than go about it in a respectful way he chose to rewrite history by saying that they had never been right for each other, that she had manipulated him into marriage, that she constantly embarrassed and humiliated him. (He chose not to mention that he had started shagging other women towards the end.) It was just such a cruel insult. She loved him and was heartbroken that he had left, but rather than let her have some dignity she had to deal with him telling everyone it was actually her fault because he was obsessed with projecting a certain image of himself.

This is all weirdly comforting. Comforting to have my beliefs about my relationship echoed by so many other people with almost identical stories. It’s uncanny.

I’m actually going through my break up at the moment. I don’t feel deeply sad about the loss of our relationship because I know how toxic it has been, but it’s still stressful and upsetting. I’m trying to learn that there really isn’t anything I can do to make him understand my viewpoint, and there’s no point trying any longer. Our realities are a million miles apart.

It’s frustrating, though. I’m not quite there yet. It’s taking every ounce of my emotional strength to remain calm and self-assured throughout the process. I honestly think if I’d been a less confident person, he could have done me some serious mental harm.

Think of narcissism as a normal developmental stage- all young children are naturally narcissistic, towards 4/5/6 yo they develop empathy etc. (Think tantrums/biting/needing to win/learning to share)

npd adults have just got stuck there, usually bc their emotional needs at this age were not adequately met, so they had to parent themselves in some way. (Trauma/npd-style parents).

Ironically, an adult with npd will usually have lacked adequate parental attention and care as a child, even if they don’t realise it.

This doesn’t mean you can fix them though!

I think they do know. I have often asked myself if I am a narcissist because he told me I was. I asked lots of people if they thought I was, tried hard to counter balance any narc behaviour I’d seen on lists, picked myself apart trying to work out my motivations for doing things. And I think yeah it boiled down to he was the narcissist and was just trying to make me believe I was the awful one. I’ve looked back over scenarios and asked others, sent screen shots to people to ask, did I just gaslight then? Or was I manipulate there etc? No one has said yes.

I also know that I do this I believe they are aware that their inner world isn't real but push it away I am told I romanticise everything and see things through rose tinted glasses. However I wonder if that’s exactly why he worked his charm so well on me. I was susceptible to “romance”.

So yeah, they know enough - In that they know what behaviour works and on who. Even if not consciously.

Does anyone else keep thinking Trump?

I was wondering if Trump has low self esteem hence his apparent narcissism. But maybe that's a non narcissist person trying to attribute behaviour to a somewhat less unappealing condition.

Watching a programme about an American psychiatrist who specialised in psychopathic behaviour (and, ultimate irony, discovered that he was a psychopath too) he believes that how a psychopath turns out is greatly affected by his upbringing. If his (or her) upbringing is loving that makes a huge difference. Maybe npd people would be similar? They old nature and nurture theory?

@Peppaismyrolemodel

Think of narcissism as a normal developmental stage- all young children are naturally narcissistic, towards 4/5/6 yo they develop empathy etc. (Think tantrums/biting/needing to win/learning to share)

npd adults have just got stuck there, usually bc their emotional needs at this age were not adequately met, so they had to parent themselves in some way. (Trauma/npd-style parents).

Ironically, an adult with npd will usually have lacked adequate parental attention and care as a child, even if they don’t realise it.

Cross post

There is a theory (side track here) that many psychopath serial killers existed in the USA in the sixties and seventies because they are born psychopaths who are the age to be children of men brutalised by fighting in World War II, and wholly inadequate parents

I don't think they do. They truly believe they are right and that others have personality disorders. There is no telling them otherwise.

@tobee

Does anyone else keep thinking Trump?

I was wondering if Trump has low self esteem hence his apparent narcissism. But maybe that's a non narcissist person trying to attribute behaviour to a somewhat less unappealing condition.

Watching a programme about an American psychiatrist who specialised in psychopathic behaviour (and, ultimate irony, discovered that he was a psychopath too) he believes that how a psychopath turns out is greatly affected by his upbringing. If his (or her) upbringing is loving that makes a huge difference. Maybe npd people would be similar? They old nature and nurture theory?

I don't know if he is a narcissist, it seems like he is unable to comprehend his behaviour and consequences. I have wondered if he had some sort of undiagnosed special needs and his family never got him help, and now he is an adult with money he behaves like a child would.

They 100% believe their behaviour and opinions are right.....and everything you do, including not serving their every need, is wrong. I speak from bitter experience. They never change because they can never see the error of their ways

@tobee

Does anyone else keep thinking Trump?

I was wondering if Trump has low self esteem hence his apparent narcissism. But maybe that's a non narcissist person trying to attribute behaviour to a somewhat less unappealing condition.

Watching a programme about an American psychiatrist who specialised in psychopathic behaviour (and, ultimate irony, discovered that he was a psychopath too) he believes that how a psychopath turns out is greatly affected by his upbringing. If his (or her) upbringing is loving that makes a huge difference. Maybe npd people would be similar? They old nature and nurture theory?

Yes- ‘think Trump’. Maybe that should be my new life motto?

Though with the addition that the label ‘psychopath’ is not something you could get diagnosed with in the UK, with good reason- all children are lovable and teachable - and a label like psychopath implies bad people are born, not made-

I think narcissists know what they are doing but over time they will become complacent and I definitely don’t think they realise the scale of their behaviour.

Ah right that's interesting re psychopath definition @Peppaismyrolemodel

@tobee

Ah right that's interesting re psychopath definition *@Peppaismyrolemodel*

Diagnosis not definition