Eternally punished for cheating

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I have NC for this. I know Mumsnet hates cheaters and I'm the one that did in this situation. As with everything there are two sides and reasons etc which I won't bore you all with. I'm genuinely interested to know how people perceive this though and I'm sure I'll get some answers I won't like but every time we have a serious relationship issue or chat it always boils down to me being the "cheater" even if the issue discussing isn't to do with that. We're in a rough place and he's just said that I broke the trust so basically he's the better person over all. It's such a final response to the issue that I don't feel I have any comeback as my betrayal trump's any crap behaviour on his part. Is this fair? Should I always then end up to blame because of what I did years ago?

The thing that I’m taking out of his need to question you after you finished work is that you quite obviously didn’t ever properly come clean.

Or after the second/third questioning session, you didn’t say ‘right, I’m taking the day off on Thursday, and we are going to get this all out in the open once and for all’

You said that he questioned you then because he knew that you would tell him the truth - that says to me that he couldn’t get the truth out of you at other times

Also, you’ve never heard of Esther Perel - the most famous author in the world on relationships and especially recovering relationships after cheater
This says to me you haven’t even done a basic Google search of ‘how to repair my marriage after cheating’ or ‘how to help my husband recover from my affair’

So what HAVE you done to help this relationship?
You set a nuclear bomb off in it with an affair, but then appear to have expected your poor husband to get over it.

It’s all very well expecting forgiveness and for him to get over it, but what work have YOU done to put his mind at ease, or win trust or prove you are a good person who made a made mistake?

Because after an affair, surely the onus is on YOU to repair the hole you created, not your poor spouse to scramble around in your web of lies to find a way to forgive you with no assurance it won’t happen again

Your whole post has a real undercurrent of blaming him for your mistake - you urgently need to get some counselling to unpick this, with or without him
Because while it could be argued that it’s natural for him to still have some resentment towards you, it’s really weird that you have so much resentment towards him yet want to stay in this relationship that you have already been unfaithful in once

I can't stand cheating but if he decided to stay with you he needs to put in effort to work through this. It shouldn't be a stick to beat you with, he had the choice to leave. You also don't have to put up with his bullying just because you still feel ashamed of what you did.

Given what you have said in subsequent posts, OP - I would leave. At the very least he’s quite controlling.

It all sounds miserable tbh. He's enjoying having a stick to beat you with over and over, and you were unhappy enough to cheat in the first place. You probably feel like you can't be the one to end it and hurt him again, but this is not a happy relationship for either of you.

You need to split up. Do you really want to have this thrown at you for the rest of your life ?
Go and be alone or in a relationship where you don’t have to be perpetually sorry.

Is it not a bit of a grey area as to whether you cheated or not? You wanted him to leave because it seemed like he, at least, was having an emotional affair, he refused to go then you found the OM?

Interrogating you late at night four years on is abusive. Threatening to hurt people is abusive. Sounds like he was a controlling arsehole anyway and he know feels justified to ramp up the level of abuse.

Please leave this awful man, this 'relationship' is not working

Men and women become awful partners when they are cheated on. It's usually a traumatic and life changing experience.
A relationship is never the same following infidelity. Trust is precarious, and feelings of insecurity, anger, shame and resentment will never completely disappear.
It's possible to build a new relationship but it takes a LOT of work, soul searching, honesty and listening from both sides.
You've not really done the work OP. And if you didn't just have an affair but lied, gaslighted, complained of his paranoia and of being controlled by his suspicions being aired, then there probably isn't a way back.
I'm slightly surprised at the attacks on your DH because, although not always justified, people won't be perfect when dealing with trauma or betrayal. So while I wouldn't ever defend constant mistrust, insecurity, resentment and not letting hurtful things go, I can at least understand that response from men and women who's partner has been unfaithful.
It will never go away OP - and you either learn ways to better deal with the residue or you call it a day. But you don't get to deserve to be treated as though it never happened. No one does.

He sounds bullying and controlling. Regardless of what you have done, you don’t deserve to be treated this way and you are worth more than this relationship. Please don’t keep punishing yourself by staying with this man, it doesn’t sound good for either of you.

@Seadad

Men and women become awful partners when they are cheated on. It's usually a traumatic and life changing experience. A relationship is never the same following infidelity. Trust is precarious, and feelings of insecurity, anger, shame and resentment will never completely disappear. It's possible to build a new relationship but it takes a LOT of work, soul searching, honesty and listening from both sides. You've not really done the work OP. And if you didn't just have an affair but lied, gaslighted, complained of his paranoia and of being controlled by his suspicions being aired, then there probably isn't a way back. I'm slightly surprised at the attacks on your DH because, although not always justified, people won't be perfect when dealing with trauma or betrayal. So while I wouldn't ever defend constant mistrust, insecurity, resentment and not letting hurtful things go, I can at least understand that response from men and women who's partner has been unfaithful. It will never go away OP - and you either learn ways to better deal with the residue or you call it a day. But you don't get to deserve to be treated as though it never happened. No one does.

This is absolute sense.

You've caused massive trauma to someone and now expect him to behave like nothing ever happened, and treat you like nothing ever happened.

If that's your mindset, it isn't a huge leap to see how you are so selfish and abusive as to have had the affair in the first place.

Leaving the cheating aside for a moment, are you aware that arguing, and winning arguments, really aren’t a normal part of a healthy relationship? I’m asking because I don’t know what sort of relationship history and models you’ve had, and mine weren’t great so I used to assume that a certain amount of volatility is normal.

@GappyValley I'm actually finding your posts doubling down in defence of his abusive behaviour pretty disturbing. Even if OP didn't tell him everything, that's her right to do so - and his to leave. NOT to torture a confession out of her by repeatedly depriving her of sleep. That's not an acceptable option open to him. She was unhappy in the relationship before she cheated - what option would you say was open to her then? To leave, right? Not to do whatever she wanted, no matter how hurtful? So how come it's ok for him to abuse her now, when he's unhappy?

Also, I don't understand why you're convinced he's a good man just because he was cheated on. "He was in constant contact with his ex and I couldn't take any more and asked him to leave. He didn't and I guess I never kept on until he did." Sounds like a real prince. It seems much more likely - based on his behaviour both pre- and post-affair - that he wasn't a good partner and is now going to use this as a stick to beat OP with and win arguments forever, not genuinely try to work through it OR leave.

"Even if OP didn't tell him everything, that's her right to do so - and his to leave. NOT to torture a confession out of her by repeatedly depriving her of sleep."

That might be your opinion, but it absolutely isn't the opinion of the vast vast majority of counsellors, and all those who have written books.

They all say, without exception, that full truth and transparency is required.
Partly because it removes all secrecy and lies from the affair, and mostly because being lied to will drive someone slowly mad, and is in itself absolutely abusive.

If OP was even half serious about repairing the relationship, she would have been honest. Instead, she lied and gaslighted the poor bloke.

I don't think anywhere I've called him a prince, but OP obviously likes him enough to want to try and stay in a relationship with him despite what she has done, but she is making an absolute ham fist of repairing is with the lies and dishonesty, which seem to be driving him to behaviour which is destroying both of them.

It all could be avoided if OP had acted with a shred of decency when the affair came to light, but she didn't
So now she needs to do what is required to fix not only her awful affair but her awful post-affair behaviour

If a partner has had an affair and is not forthcoming on all the detail to the satisfaction of the betrayed partner. Surely the other partner then makes a decision on whether they want to stay or leave the relationship?

You don't abuse the unfaithful partner by repeatedly depriving them of sleep and questioning them throughout the night. That is classic abusive behaviour.

I do not believe any therapist is condoning or suggesting abusing your partner to get information out of them.

Any relationship where one partner feels justified in coercing and causing harm to their partner is dead in the water.

An affair is terrible to get over, but it doesn't give the injured partner a right to use as a trump card forever more in every argument. Which is what it sounds like OP's partner is doing.

Walk away OP, you will both be so much happier out of it.

If someone makes the decision to forgive a partner for cheating and move on then it has to be a case of moving on. "Yeah but you cheated" can't be a trump card to throw at the person who cheated.

If someone can't move past their partner cheating then the relationship should be over.

A PP summed it up brilliantly here:
"I think the next time it comes up you need to take a deep breath and say I think this relationship is over. I'm calling it a day. The fact that you've never moved on from me cheating in all these years shows that the relationship can't be saved."

"And I'd go. Whatever the issues I agree with pp saying that you can't remain if he is going to throw this in your face in every argument

You will and you should.
Your other half should have walked away. Unfortunately for you the other party just doesn't forget. Even if you're sorry. Even if you regret it. Even if you have a million bullshit excuses for it.
Find someone else and don't tell them what you did. And don't do it to them. That's best for you and definitely best for your other half.

Sure you have you're reasons but they're just excuses to go get some elsewhere. Cheaters love the line that they had "good reason" to be a jerk when really you could have walked away and jumped in the next bed without ruining someone else's life in the process.

So yes you will always be reminded of it and punished for it if you stay with the person you screwed over as you deserve. Not sure why you'd expect different. You fucked up not them and so you don't get to decide how they deal with it.

I think cheating is unforgivable and wouldn’t choose to remain in a relationship with a cheater.

If he has chosen this, but wants to act like it’s both unforgivable AND he wants to continue the relationship, that doesn’t make sense and he needs to choose. If he won’t, you will need to decide what you’re willing to live with. Healthy relationships don’t have trump cards. Or cheating.

If you have drawn a line in the sand, then going forward he has no right to bring it up, it may always loom over you, but he cannot use it as a baton to beat you with.

"That might be your opinion, but it absolutely isn't the opinion of the vast vast majority of counsellors, and all those who have written books."

Really? They say that if the person who cheated won't come clean (to your satisfaction - I believe the OP when she says that she did, esp as he had the phone details and would quiz her repeatedly to make sure that what she said always matched - sounds like he had the info), that you should abuse them to get it?

Surely if you don't feel your cheating partner is holding up their end of the deal, you leave instead of abusing them. Choosing to stay and to punish them indefinitely is wrong.

This is why I dumped my ex immediately. I would never have trusted or fully forgiven. Cheating crosses the biggest line ever.
Personally I think you're both wasting your lives now.

Leave him. Sounds like it was a shit relationship anyway with him texting ex’s and you cheating. Why are you still with him? I don’t get why people cling on for dear life when you don’t have to.

@Pythone

"That might be your opinion, but it absolutely isn't the opinion of the vast vast majority of counsellors, and all those who have written books."

Really? They say that if the person who cheated won't come clean (to your satisfaction - I believe the OP when she says that she did, esp as he had the phone details and would quiz her repeatedly to make sure that what she said always matched - sounds like he had the info), that you should abuse them to get it?

Surely if you don't feel your cheating partner is holding up their end of the deal, you leave instead of abusing them. Choosing to stay and to punish them indefinitely is wrong.

No, hence that's not the part of your post that I quoted Did you not read my post properly?

The experts say that there needs to be full truth on the affair. Ideally not the blow by blow sexual details, for the sake of the betrayed, but that rebuilding requires full truth. When it started, how it started, how they communicated, how often, when they met etc

Sunlight is the best bleach, and all the cosy little secrets of the affair need to be in broad daylight, because part of the appeal of the affair is the secrecy it lives within. As long as there is secrecy and private details, the affair exists as a special little thing between them.
To rebuild the relationships requires the destruction of the affair, so no contact, no secrets

So by signing up to rebuild, the OP does not retain the right to carry on lying or withholding information
So it might be your opinion that it was her right to do so, but that belief is not shared by any actual expert on the topic.

The point at which the OP carried on gaslighting and lying, she was committing extreme emotional abuse to her partner. It therefore doesn't come as any surprise that he was traumatised enough to start questioning her at a time of day that he knew she would answer questions.
Presumably if she didn't like this continued questioning, she would have been able to put an immediate stop to it by coming clean with the details he needed to hear.

She didn't, so carried on the emotional abuse of her husband.

Obviously two wrongs don't make a right here, but it's very hard to see why you're calling out his behaviour as abusive, and defending to death her right to abuse him

@GappyValley where have you got that I was extremely emotionally abusive and gaslighting my partner. We took a couple of days to go through it all and then later on he would quiz me over and over the details to ensure what I had previously told matched what I told him again. I didn't lie I told the truth from the beginning. He checked my story out multiple times and it was always the same. I'm sorry if you've had bad experiences but I think to label me as an extreme abuser is a bit much.

@GappyValley

"Even if OP didn't tell him everything, that's her right to do so - and his to leave. NOT to torture a confession out of her by repeatedly depriving her of sleep."

Above is exactly the part of my post that you quoted, including the bit about torturing a confession out of her!

"So it might be your opinion that it was her right to do so, but that belief is not shared by any actual expert on the topic."

It IS her right to do so, and his right to leave. Not to abuse her to get a confession. I don't think it would lead to a healthy rebuilding of the relationship (I personally think carrying on a relationship after someone has cheated is a waste of time), but that isn't relevant. What's relevant is that if he's not happy with the way she's handling it, he should leave her. He shouldn't treat her badly to make her handle it in the "right" way.

"The point at which the OP carried on gaslighting and lying, she was committing extreme emotional abuse to her partner."

Also, we don't know this! The OP said that she DID tell him everything - why have you decided that she's lying, and stated this as absolute fact?

I'm not defending her right to abuse him - I'm saying that if he's unhappy because she cheated, he should leave, and that behaving abusively isn't an ok response to being cheated on. Also, it's four YEARS later, not the immediate aftermath.

OP, this relationship is over.

You are staying out of guilt and your ‘D’P is in an abusive cycle of beating you with the ‘affair’ stick.

NC fail - post above is mine!