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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Rich Man Mean?

303 replies

247 · 12/11/2007 09:22

Had a crappy long and drawn out debate with DH in which it is very obvious we have quite different values. Since he is the breadwinner then I guess I have to accept it, but boy I am not happy. DH had nothing when i met and married him but we were happy and in love, isnt that the most important thing. Anyway, the years have gone by, 20 to be exact and he is now rich. We have a 2£m home, DCs in private ed, expensive cars etc, successful business etc, but we do not live an expensive lifestyle, ie lots of holidays, designer gear, trips out etc. I just happened to mention that DD would like (has not asked and never does) 3 expensive items including a handbag. Now she is only 13 and he has a problem with the fact a) she does not need a handbag b) she should not be wearing any designer clothes and c) if he lets have have these things she will be spoilt! I just don't get it, she is not a brat, never asks for anythingand more often than not wears quite cheap clothes. Whats his problem. I told him if I had money I would like my family to have the finest of everything. Now I know that is not the main focus in life but surely it would be a different matter and I was asking for stuff that we cannot afford. Am i so very wrong. Opions please, but please don't slate me. I grew up with not much at all and we have made a lot of sacrifices to be where we are now, 20yrs down the line should we not be enjoying the fruits of our labour?

OP posts:
warthog · 12/11/2007 14:24

i'd be so tempted to present him with the old 'this is the bill for all i do for you' line (adding up housekeeper, gardener, nanny salaries) and make him understand that to replace you would cost him a fortune. aside from you taking him to the cleaners.

and quite frankly i'd throw that allowance crap out the window. just start spending what you think the family needs. you can afford it.

fortyplus · 12/11/2007 14:43

Right - come on - we can do better than this... 247 is very unhappy and it sounds as though her dh is unhappy, too.

He is too controlling, but he sees her as whinging, materialistic and selfish.

247 sees the only positive thing about herself as the fact that she has helped him build his 'empire' and now has the trappings of wealth.

So... where can they go from here...

He needs to learn to value her contribution to his life.

She needs to drop the idea that the only way she can express her value as a person is by flaunting the designer gear.

It's really positive that the dd seems unaffected by the conflict going on here, so hopefully 247 and her dh can build on that.

There needs to be some compromise in the relationship.

I do know self-made people who are very 'careful' with their money. It sounds to me that the dh needs to loosen up a little - he is probably quite panicky about losing any control over the joint finances. Meanwhile 247 somehow needs to make him understand that he can trust her not to fritter money away on over priced designer items.

I don't believe it's very helpful of us to tell 247 that she'd get a huge chunk of his money if she divorced him - she doesn't want to do that. I feel a genuine sadness for her - she ought to be the envy of most people but instead is feeling really miserable.

What do the rest of you think?

247 · 12/11/2007 14:47

Yes I hear what you are saying but I think that would only cause more resentment on his part. He already calls me ungrateful. Thinks he could pay a cleaner 4/5£ ph and only need it 3/4 hours per week. As I said at the start, he is mega rich and as such I would like to buy what I want to buy, I don't think that is asking too much. At my age it costs more and more to look good 50+, yes I would love my eyes lifting or some botox and I should be able to if I want but 'my allowance' wont cover it. DD doesnt care what she has or has not but I care, not because I am shallow or materialistic as some people would say (usually those who cant afford it) but because its a pleasure to have lovely things and it doesnt mean that you cant appreciate them. I appreciate every single thing in my life, none more so than my children. For years my most treasured possession after the family was a 100£ brass candlebra for heavens sake. Now it is the perfectly tiles kitchen floor!!! I do not have personal possessions, jewellery or anything. I am in a no win situation so I have to put up and shut up (hence I am letting off steam here) or pack my bags, leave and become very rich at the expense of taking the DC from thier father. I wont do it

OP posts:
binkleandflip · 12/11/2007 14:48

well I didnt say divorce him actually, I was empathising with her being as I am in the same position.

If she is a strong person and loves him and believes he loves her then she must assert herself and make it clear that while she has no intention of fleecing him, she has equal right to the money coming into the household - at the very least. I say that because I dont doubt her dh (if he is savvy at all which I'm sure he is) has money 'invested' in all sorts of interesting nooks and crannies that she has no clue about. They tend to be cagey, wealthy blokes.

binkleandflip · 12/11/2007 14:48

well I didnt say divorce him actually, I was empathising with her being as I am in the same position.

If she is a strong person and loves him and believes he loves her then she must assert herself and make it clear that while she has no intention of fleecing him, she has equal right to the money coming into the household - at the very least. I say that because I dont doubt her dh (if he is savvy at all which I'm sure he is) has money 'invested' in all sorts of interesting nooks and crannies that she has no clue about. They tend to be cagey, wealthy blokes.

fortyplus · 12/11/2007 14:49

Surely if he has built up a business empire he would know that £4 per hour is less than the minimum wage?

binkleandflip · 12/11/2007 14:49

same here 247 - I wouldnt leave dh because I wouldnt want a broken relationship for dd

colditz · 12/11/2007 14:49

YOu're his wife, not a housekeeper, he doesn't get to give you wages to shut you up, so tell him to can this talk of 'allowances' and 'no cleaners'.

Get a job, and ignore the cleaning until he complains about it. Then point him in the direction of merrymaids. You're not a servant.

I think the thing about the handbag is actually you trying to have some (any!) control over what happens in your daughter's and your life, which you don't seem to have. He cannot stop you getting a job, you are not 14. The worst he can actually do is divorce you, and he will not be wanting to do that - keeping you close is his cheapest option right now! perhaps point that out to him?

fortyplus · 12/11/2007 14:52

Hmm... yes. But things aren't going to change overnight, are they? I think we need to focus on the fact that he is probably just as unhappy as she is and things won't get any better without a proactive approach. They can't just wave a magic wand and heal the rift in their relationship. They need to understand that they are each making the other miserable and that they have to have some empathy for the other person if they are ever going to move forward.

foofi · 12/11/2007 14:54

I've skimmed through most of the thread and I'm amazed at how many people are saying that in their marriages the money is shared jointly. Don't get me wrong, it is in my marriage too. But most of the women I know in RL DO have an allowance to live off.

247 · 12/11/2007 14:54

He wants (under duress) to refurnish the study. The furniture is really old and shabby and has been for a few years. I suggested getting built in furniture. 'Have you any idea how much that would cost? Are you mad? What planet are you living on? We will go to IKEA. I personally like IKEA but why would you put that in a £2m house?

OP posts:
binkleandflip · 12/11/2007 14:56

with respect a £2m house could be worth £200k next month - it is only worth what the property market dictates at any one time so immaterial where furniture comes from if it looks nice in situ IYSWIM

247 · 12/11/2007 14:57

I have to go out now, I'm going to his office to take a paper over, have smartened myself up, wouldn't want his workers to see 'the wife' looking shabby. I wouldn't embarrass him that way even though I was previously dressed for the gym in really old rags!

OP posts:
lemonaid · 12/11/2007 15:00

Why not put IKEA in a £2m house, if you like IKEA? Mind you, if I had money I would pay someone else to go and do the queuing...

I don't see why your only two options are "put up and shut up" or leaving. There seem to me to be a whole host of other options. For example, I think RELATE counselling could be enormously useful to the two of you if your DH would go (or counselling for you alone to explore your feelings if he won't).

fortyplus · 12/11/2007 15:03

I really wouldn't have a problem with Ikea furniture in a study. He sounds like a good solid practical type to me! So - time to EMPATHISE... how do you think he feels about your argument that it isn't suitable?

It's only a study - why fritter away money on a part of the house that no one will see?

warthog · 12/11/2007 15:04

ok. well i think we're all pissed off on your behalf.

it doesn't have to be this way.

would you consider going to relate?

blueshoes · 12/11/2007 17:36

247, if you were as frugal as dh, would the problem be solved? Is the issue that you are more liberal on spending (that is fine as your dh can afford it) but your dh is more tightfisted? You seem to think that you need to spend to live up to a certain image, like buying designer things for dd even though she did ask for it because of her peers or not spending on IKEA furniture for a £2m house even though you don't mind IKEA personally.

Then again, you also wrote: "DH on the other hand drives a range rover and wears armani suits and YSL shirts! My younger son wears RL, Lacoste and Hilfiger." Is the issue that your dh is in reality only tightfisted in relation to you and dd, but not himself and ds? In which case, he is applying some bizarre doublestandard (to females)?

Puzzled.

pagwatch · 12/11/2007 17:54

Can I just observe as well that many men ( well mine are under HUGE pressure once they feel that they have created a life style which needs to continue.
My DH is doing very well indeed and works fricking hard. He is especially anxious as we have a child with profound special needs and he can sometimes get overwhelmed by the sense that no amount of money will ever be enough to feel really 'safe'.
We can very easily get over fiocussed on our view of how things stand but I would be surprised to find a man who really feels he has 'made it' - especially one with young kids in private schools ( yep me too).
I tend to tease my DH about being two different people about money. He seems at times to relax and want to enjoy it ( hence shopping for a Thomas toy for DS at chroistmas we actually left Toys r us with a quad bike - you haven't lived until you hacve seen a very happy and very autistic boy wrecking a whole garden on a quad bike).And then the next minute he is querying do we really need to get the kids some chinese food on a friday night when the freezer is full
But then he will be working hard and get tired and it is if he suddenly gets scared. And i think he sometimes feel as if I am indifferent to how hard he works to keep us where we are.
I am rambling. But i do think that you and DH need to talk.
When DH and i discuss stuff we always try to remeber that we are trying to reach a place we can agree. I try to keep focussed on what I want rather than just scoring points and venting.
Could you ask him why he is anxious about the money and why he feels indifferent to your contribution. Does he know how that makes you feel?
A glass of wine a " look, I love you, we have been through all this together, can't we at least talk it through" and maybe you would find out what is bothering him.
I wouldn't threaten anything - let alone divorce. That is point scoring and designed to hurt and frighten. Not really the way to mend a breach.

lucyellensmum · 12/11/2007 18:19

Im really torn by this post, im not sure what is going on here. My DP is just starting a business, its fucking tough and we are making sacrafices all round. Some of those sacrifices are that i am at home alone alot of the time as he often has to work late and weekends, which he hates as much as i do, but what can you do. 247, you say that a woman shouldnt stand in her husbands way at work etc, well yes, this is true, but a husband shouldnt hold back his wife and stiffle her either.

I had to laugh at myself the other night, im soooo not the little woman (in fact i think my DP is really quite scared of me!) but the other night he didn't get home until nearly midnight. Despite my coping with DD all day, being shattered and climbing the walls with loneliness - i made him dinner for when he got home and ran a bath for him and took him up some tea to drink in it! Then i thought blimey, im turning into a stepford wife. But then i thought, yes, but this poor man has been out slogging his guts out since six this morning, despite a broken night with DD the night before and he was SHATTERED. There owuld have been a time when i would have been constantly phoning and been in a foul mood by the time he got home, but what would that achieve other than to stress us both out more. One day i am hoping that we too will be reaping the rewards of all our hard work, but in the mean time, if that means i have to be the little woman then thats ok. Its my way of helping. I also help by doing all the admin and nagging him into making schedules and get on his case to stick to them. I am also thinking of doing some courses so that i can offer the business more. At the end of the day the business is about US as a family. I think the thing is to remember taht we are individuals in our own right and not let this become a pattern.

I have to say, i think xenia does make a good point about if women want to spend money without having to consult the other partner then they must earn their own. However i do not agree that just because some women, as i do, rely on a man for money, we should have to do as we are told - my DP wouldnt DARE!!!! I may end up only working for the business, so technically for my partner, despite having professional qualifications in another field of expertise. IF it pans out that way, then that will be a good thing, because i keep up with the mantra "this time next year rodney, we'll be millionaires".

OP, over the years you have supported your DH and kept your lovely home and cared for your children you will have ammassed a whole set of skills that you take for granted. Is there anyway, do you think, that you could utilise those skills to establish a little empire of your own? Even if its is making organic jams and preserves to sell locally. It would be something totally for you.

If your DD hasnt asked for the handbag, dont bother!! And dont turn that issue into the major stumbling point with DH. There are issues of inequality in this marriage it would seem, but i think you need to addresss that directly thinking about what you want and how you want things to progress as apposed to unnecessary arguments about xmas presents.

The thing is, your DH, whilst he is behaving badly, probably thinks you are happy just to be the kept woman and would be baffled if he knew your real feelings. I think the best bit of advice i could give you is this: Print out this thread and show him.

lucyellensmum · 12/11/2007 18:25

i would assume your house is old?? I think maybe you should have worded it, why put ikea furniture (which i think is tacky and awful tbh) in a traditional house. Built in furniture would be expensive, i know this because my DP makes it, and he is not cheap by any means. I would be more inclined, were it me, to be scouring the good quality auctions and antique shops - more of an investment, which i am sure speaks your DHs language quite well. MEN - you just have to learn how to play them

247 · 12/11/2007 19:41

Totally agree Pagwatch and I am now giving it a rest, yes he does it all for us at the end of the day and I guess he is a lot more careful with the £s than I would ever be. Just for the record and the fact I did not want IKEA is because the house is new, we built it and paid 750£k refurbishing, thats why I think the house deserves a better quality of fittings. It has it in every other room. And the study is not shut away, we use it all the time. Thanks everyone, I have come down off my high horse now.

OP posts:
binkleandflip · 12/11/2007 19:51

well as I say, I get where you are coming from completely, a high earning partner is both a blessing (because you have no money worries) and a curse (resentment/inequality financially) but it could be worse.

Hope you can sort stuff out or at least find a happy medium until the next flare up

Elizabetth · 12/11/2007 21:05

He's basically got you as his servant and expects you to be happy with that.

I know people are saying "get a job" but what is bringing up a family, taking care of children and keeping a house and home going if not a job?

Your husband has some really sexist views about what women do and what traditional women's work is worth by the sounds of it. I think you should tell him you're not putting up with it any longer. It's not his money it both of yours money and it's time he started giving you access to it. You're an adult who should be able to make financial decisions not a teenager to be fobbed off with an allowance.

expatinscotland · 12/11/2007 21:13

i 100% agree with Xenia.

as my mother always said, 'stay with or marry a man for money and you'll earn every penny.'

expatinscotland · 12/11/2007 21:13

there's a lot of figure-throwing out here.

is this a nouveau thing?

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