Does love come back/what do I do

[helplesshopeless]

Nc for this.

Advice needed please, I've created a huge mess and can't see a way out/what is for the best. This may be long.

I am married with a 3yo. DH has always had a nasty temper, I've suggested anger management counselling numerous times but to no avail. The last few years since having my child have been really difficult. He's generally spoken to me with contempt and disdain a lot of the time, with occasional temper flashes, arguments are always toxic, things could get very nasty (never physical). On a day to day basis we would be civil enough to eachother, but nasty looks and snappiness from him were definitely daily as well, with bigger flare ups fairly regularly. We have had happy family times too and we both dote on our child.

All of this treatment from my DH culminated in my withdrawing from him and ultimately having an affair the last few months, with someone who made me feel loved and cared for. It was mainly an emotional affair but there was a small amount of physical contact (we did not have sex). This is someone that I work with, so although we're wfh at the moment, he is in team zoom meetings etc.

My DH found everything out last week. He is angry but also devastated. I have never seen him so upset and it has shocked me that he cares that much about me. He has completely woken up to how he's been treating me and is committed to having anger management therapy and working on things with me. I obviously am ashamed of what I have done and there is no excuse for my behaviour, but he does recognise that his treatment of me took me to a place where I was open to someone else. I still can't believe I had an affair because it is so against my morals and I fully deserve to be judged for it.

We are working on things and will get relationship counselling. There's a lot of self esteem issues that my husband struggles with, especially since we had our child as he's felt like he's been stuck on the outside looking in, and he thinks this is why he's been treating me how he has. I do understand this and it makes sense, but it doesn't change how he's treated me in the past and how damaging I have found it.

My husband wants me to leave my work so there's no interaction with the other man. I totally understand his point but am reluctant to do this as I'd then feel trapped.

I want to get back to a happy place with my husband. I don't want to feel trapped with him. I don't know if I can find my way back to loving him, whether all of this is coming too late after years of awful treatment. I accept I have behaved in a disgusting way and deserve all of this fall out, and am so worried about the impact on our child and how I'd manage if we separate. I am also concerned about the impact on my husband if things don't work as he has been explaining how it will crush him and he'd never be able to trust anyone again if we don't manage to work through this.

I just don't know if my heart is in this anymore, I want to be able to be happy with him and love him and our family deserves for me to work on this and fully commit to getting back on track, but I have no idea if I'll ever get back to where I need to be.

I am ashamed to admit I still have feelings for the other guy. I could obviously never be with him anyway so that is irrelevant, but it's clouding my judgement. I need to hear from people who have learnt to love their husbands again. Is that a thing? Will we ever get there?

I still can't believe any of this is happening.

@loveyourself2020 you are completely right of course.
But I'm wondering what he has told OP about what his expectations are if she "confirms" she wants to continue in the marriage?
For this marriage to work it is going to take a huge amount of work from both parties over a very long period of time. When he says he doesn't know if he's going to be able to cope with the uncertainty much longer OP what does he expect to happen, in practice, if you say "yes let's work on our marriage" (as you already have done)? What changes, practically? Have you asked him this?
He's holding this imaginary timeline over you and using it as a form of pressure but it isn't real, is it? Because you will both continue to need counselling, continue to work on the things you are working on, and then it's quite feasible in 6 months/1 years/whatever you (or he) could conclude actually it's not working and want out.
So what is this imaginary deadline for, other than another stick to beat you with?

I think financially it's ok. We'd split all assets 50:50 which is fine, he's saying he won't pay any maintenance even if she's with me for a greater proportion of time, but that's fine too I think (and frankly not worth the battle if it got to that)

That’s not fair on you or DD. He will battle over everything so you might as well go for what’s fair and reasonable.

I’m afraid that he’s the type who will very quickly reduce his contact with his DD after any divorce. You need to be prepared for this.

What he is saying about asset split, maintainance etc is a load of tosh.
You are entitled to at least half of everything, probably more, and that includes pensions, savings, equity.

And you get to stay in the family home until your DD is no longer in education. And that includes University.
And he has to pay maintainace. For her

Stop listening to his abusive rubbish.
And get a SHL to advise you how to leave the cunt

Good god, he is actually repulsive isn't he?

Do you ever worry that you are going to seriously lose your shit with him? That you might snap?
and tell him -

1. 3 weeks of you pretending you're nicer than we both know you actually are, while you are hassling me for a fast decision, is NOT enough time to convince me that you have actually changed in any fucking way at all!

1. Yes, I took comfort elsewhere because you were nasty and abusive for years and you wore me down, and now you're the poor little victim, but actually you bloody well deserved it! You didn't cherish me!

1. All these blips, and insecurities and not being able to deal with the consequences of your own behaviour, and your threats about our dcs and custody, money etc are NOT endearing you to me! Never mind apologising unreservedly - you've shown me how you're thinking! And it's ugly.

1. Your thinking I'm a bad person because I won't lie to you and tell you I love you and believe we have an excellent chance after 3 weeks of your pathetic fakery... is NOT making me fall in love with you again!

1. Your deadlines and self pitying moans are NOT helping your cause!

1. The very fact you want to stay married to me even though you know, deep down, you have killed my love for you, you actually want me to be with you and pretend I'm happy when I'm not... it's really, really unattractive!

1. You exploiting my good and decent nature to try to make me feel SO guilty that I'm prepared to somehow force myself to love you, is not making me feel well disposed towards you!

1. The blame you're giving me for not telling you how much I didn't like you being nasty to me? Its not my fucking job to teach you how to be a decent human being!

1. You may well be angry about my affair, and that's fine. But actually I'm even angrier that you treated me so badly that I had to get my needs for a decent partner met by someone else!!

10. We are fucking done!

Do you ever feel on the verge of losing your temper with this shithead op?

Because I know you want to look like the good guy, or at least not the bad guy, and he also knows that, and he uses that to keep you down...
But actually, you don't love this unbelievably unpleasant man. I don't think you've told us one nice thing about him. Is there anything endearing about him?

Sorry, but I would simply lose patience with him. He doesn't deserve you! He never did! But he thinks he's entitled to you, to your thoughts, to your choices, to your feelings.

And he's starting (really early on in his 'complete transformation into a better person') to get irritated and angry that you are not in the position he wants you in! You are not doing it to his timetable. You are not atoning enough for the terrible sin of discovering that with another better person it is possible to be treated with love and respect.

It sounds to me like with all this pressure he's putting you under, he's far more likely to drive you away.

I wish you bravery OP go at your own pace, not his, not anyone's on here, but please don't stay there suffering just so he'll graciously accept his massive responsibility for killing your marriage, because he won't. If it ends he will need the narrative to be that it was your fault. You didn't try hard enough to forgive him for years of abuse, you never even told him that abusing people is a bad thing!

Rant over

@FantasticButtocks

Yes, THAT!!! Well said. Thank you .

Actually, his narrative will only every be.
She cheated on me, she destroyed our marriage

Op, this is honestly like reading my life for the past few years, I've had NC with OM for nearly a year after my H decided to change and we started to work on our marriage.
Much the same as what your experiencing now I've been through, he wanted time frames and affection etc very quickly I've never given him these but I've never given them myself and i should have done, it's been a year and am not in love with my H, he's changed but not because he really wanted to he changed because I changed and he didn't have the choice.
Honestly a year on I still want the relationship the OM made me see was possible would I like it to be with him yes and no I don't think there will be another him but it has shown me there is a different way of being partners and that makes me hopeful.
I'm just starting to feel like I can trust my decisions again I've doubted my every move for fear of hurting others and of course my DD who desperately wants us to be together,
when I suggest we should separate I know he will be destroyed and he will do a lot of things to hurt me and my mind tells me he has the right be mad with me but I also know and I tell him everytime he has a blip that I am not responsible for how he handles his emotions,
If I could do this again a year ago when this started I would have separated straight away the love hasn't come back for me, I can't get past the feeling for the OM, during our time together he did show me more of a shared relationship not just a one sided one that I was living and to some extent still am as I weary that I'm constantly meeting my H needs and not my own. It must be a very confusing time for my H because we are friends, we've had sex twice in the last year and the last time in October I sat an explain that I wasn't comfortable and sex was off the cards untill I felt I could be venerable with him it's 7 months later I don't even want to kiss him, I've built my walls of protection so high that I don't know where to start pulling them down, it's says a lot to me that a man I've shared 19 years with 10 of those married I can't let him back in,
There is no time frame for this, I guess your still In love with the OM with the world he has shown you the possibilities that could be why go back to the life that's forced you to find this out,
I hope you can start to trust yourself again a lot sooner than it's taken me

I agree that you will have to come to terms that he will somehow blame you for the end of your marriage.

Easier said than done but you will most likely never get the validation and acknowledgment you desperately need.

I am blamed because l made the decision to leave, l couldn’t forgive him, l had anger issues.....blah...blah...blah.

My DS1 told me yesterday that my XH still can’t believe that l actually left him, that he felt l over-reacted to his historic hook ups and placed unreasonable demands on him.

So what that boiled down to was....he didn’t believe me. He didn’t believe me when l said how much l was hurting...he didn’t believe me when l said our marriage was hanging by a thread.....he didn’t believe me when l said that l only had a tiny bit of faith left in him.

He clearly thought l would get back in my box after a while and all he had to do was sit tight, not do anything, refuse to acknowledge responsibility ( as he thought he was in the right) and not give in to my demands.

So what were my unreasonable demands? I asked him to stop minimising and to give me space to heal. Hardly earth shattering. He couldn’t do either but apparently is totally traumatised by the split that he never saw coming.

Sorry I am transgressing. However l am so struck by the similarities that keep cropping up by various posters in their experiences. In fact l think we could all play a game called ‘B***d Bingo’. All the pat phrases and predictable actions complied together.

Mine also asked me to tell him what he needed to do to make things better.

Told me l needed to get help with my anger (when it was him who was driving me crazy.)

Told me l was cruel

He also listened in to my therapy ( he wasn’t just hurt, , he interrogated me about three different things - l ended up blowing a gasket - so l was then the crazy one.)

I think they all attended the same School of Abusive Arseholes.

Sorry don’t mean to be flippant but l find l have developed a gallows sense of humour recently.

I hope you are ok this morning, Op.

I'm concerned that so many posts detailing how dreadful the OP's husband is and will be ,won't be helpful to the OP .

She is clearly thoughtful and will know that nothing has the sharp definitions of black and white of the picture painted by many of her husband .

My fear is she will be pushed into defending him .Which as we all know is not her responsibilty .

At the end of the day I guess it comes back to the fact that wanting to leave is justification in itself .

Things are never back and white ,but what's important is the degree of greyness you personally can live with .

OP - you say he had no idea you had a problem with his anger and he was unaware of the situation and therefore it's not his fault because he didn't know, but here is a snippet of your first post in this thread

"I am married with a 3yo. DH has always had a nasty temper, I've suggested anger management counselling numerous times but to no avail."

So you have told him before? Right? NUMEROUS TIMES!

He is an abusive, manipulative man.

Call his bluff and say you want a trial separation - if he really has changed/will change you can get back together after a few months/years. But he hasn't and won't. You deserve better!

Anyone reading this thread who is in the same position as OP should print off @FantasticButtocks's fabulous manifesto, leave it on the kitchen table and escape to a happier life right now. And maybe one day we can all sit round the campfire playing Bastard Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi everyone, thanks as ever for the messages! I know my latest update enraged everyone (🙈) and I totally see why and agree with you all on paper. Unfortunately when I'm in the situation I can see the sadness and anguish in his face, even while he's saying half the horrible stuff that he shouts at me. So it's really hard to see past anything other than his pain. I get that is frustrating and annoying to hear! But as @peridito mentioned, nothing is black and white.

I feel pretty unable to get angry or self righteous about anything (despite @FantasticButtocks brilliant summary!) and am just numb and plagued with indecision, which in itself is probably a result of his treatment of me as well.

@Cavagirl totally agree with you about the imaginary timeline, when I've tried to reason with him about that I never manage to express it as eloquently as you! In his mind we are currently not 'together' and won't be until I tell him that I'm all in again.

I only have a few moments spare so can't reply individually to every message, but you've all made some great points and I promise I'm digesting everything you've said!

@helplesshopeless

Hi everyone, thanks as ever for the messages! I know my latest update enraged everyone (🙈) and I totally see why and agree with you all on paper. Unfortunately when I'm in the situation I can see the sadness and anguish in his face, even while he's saying half the horrible stuff that he shouts at me. So it's really hard to see past anything other than his pain. I get that is frustrating and annoying to hear! But as *@peridito* mentioned, nothing is black and white.

I feel pretty unable to get angry or self righteous about anything (despite @FantasticButtocks brilliant summary!) and am just numb and plagued with indecision, which in itself is probably a result of his treatment of me as well.

@Cavagirl totally agree with you about the imaginary timeline, when I've tried to reason with him about that I never manage to express it as eloquently as you! In his mind we are currently not 'together' and won't be until I tell him that I'm all in again.

I only have a few moments spare so can't reply individually to every message, but you've all made some great points and I promise I'm digesting everything you've said!

Sorry, I did go a bit OTT! Of course we are all different, and we also change too, over the years.
I know how it feels to agonise like you are, I do. But having done similar (a couple of decades ago) I now have the benefit of my own experience that would make me react differently as I now couldn't care less if I am cast as being in the wrong, as long as I do what I actually need to do. But that's only because I'm older and can look back and wish I had cut to the chase. But I didn't, because at the time I was paralysed by indecision and anguish. We all have to find our own way through these things, of course.

"Sadness & anguish" The puppy dog eyes, boohoo, he needs a slap round the face with a wet fish...
Very attractive, did he notice your hurt over the years?
One way or another he is using this to manipulate you.
I would say his ultimatums & threats are showing the real persona, the real him is still there bubbling up through the facade, he just says sorry afterwards.
You are still waiting for the next attack, not much has changed at all.
You asked for space & time he has refused to give either.
He refuses to accept his responsibility for pushing you to having an emotional affair, (not even sexual, so not sure it counts as infidelity for a divorce, whatever....) he then uses it as a stick to beat you with... very selective eh ?
There is constant pressure for you to make a decision,
It's uncomfortable acting & he can only play this game for so long...

He refuses to accept his responsibility for pushing you to having an emotional affair, (not even sexual, so not sure it counts as infidelity for a divorce, whatever....)

No it’s not adultery. The OPs husband could argue it’s unreasonable behaviour.

Coercive control, on the other hand , isn’t just abuse so grounds from divorce. It’s actually a criminal offence.

So if we are weighing up blame here .....

OP your update didn't enrage. Please don't think of this thread as somewhere where others also have expectations of you that you need to meet. People choose to come and provide support to you; it's your thread to say what you like on. Obviously a lot of the voices are providing challenge to your beliefs, and the fairness and veracity of what your husband is saying to you. But please don't think that you then have an obligation to act in a certain way and report back, or worry what PP will think. You don't have to please the crowd with your actions.

Thank you @Cavagirl, you've all been an enormous support to me. I meant that his actions and behaviours had enraged, which is quite a fair response I think! 

@IND1A @Mix56 I've told him my actions don't amount to infidelity and we both have claims of unreasonable behaviour against one another. He will never agree to unreasonable behaviour so I told him that if it comes to it, I will agree to him filing against me on the agreement that he won't use the admission to force me to pay court costs.

@FantasticButtocks please don't apologise! I definitely need challenging on my own thoughts and seeing the list set out like that definitely helped me with that.

Thanks again to you all

For the Op I think it’s just a matter of time before the scales fall from her eyes.

He has been abusive for three years - starting when her baby was small ( so typical ) . He’s now been “nice” ( on his terms ) for three weeks and already the mask is starting to slip.

He’s had several angry abusive outbursts.
He’s not taken any personal responsibility for his abusive behaviour.
He’s not sought professional help.
He thinks she needs to heal from the abuse on his timescale.
He won’t consider any of the OPs needs eg time and space.
He is still trying to control her speech - asking her to say things they both know she doesn’t mean.
He already expects cookies in the form of sex as a reward for not being abusive.

Any day now he is going to explode as he feels that his “ efforts” ( aka being a decent human being ) mean that he should get what he wants from the OP. He will be really really desperate to get her back in her box.

He is clearly very very unhappy with the shift in the power balance in the relationship and he will seek to restore his power eg pressing for another baby, for the Op to leave her job, reduce her hours / income , get rid of her car, give up a hobby, see less of her friends/ family or move house.

This will be dressed up as working on the marriage/ giving us a chance / having a fresh start just the two of us. He might even promise to reciprocate.

Eg I promise I will reduce my hours at work so we can spend more time as family. But we will need to sell your car as we will have less income. But you won’t need it anyway as I will he here every weekend and we can be together all the time. Then she will give up her car and the promised reduced hours won’t happen.

So he’s not even managing to behave well now is he? You’ve said he’s having these occasional angry outbursts then retracts and apologises so it’s not as bad as it was especially with the anguished puppy dog face. So he’s not really suppressing his rage fully. Longer term if you stay he just won’t be able to contain himself and I suspect the rages will increase and he’ll revert to type.

I meant that his actions and behaviours had enraged

OK yes, that I agree with

Yes, sorry not knocking you OP,
but I agree its easy to see & analyse for us, --especially having lived with type of bully. & the actual walking away is hard to shoulder because he feels he has the high ground. Actually he doesn't, but as you are a decent human being, you accept that cheating is unkind/frowned upon/wrong.
At this stage, taking aside the rights & wrongs on both sides, you say you don't love him, & can't enjoy the thought of a future with him.
That's it then...no hoping, trying justifying & musical character change is going to alter that.
he has broken your relationship. plate you can keep eating off the glued back together plate, but the cracks are still there, it is not the whole clean plate you had, its full of faults.

Yes, just to reiterate: not wanting to add to your woes with insistent advice! Just that this thread is fascinating for those of us who have been through a similar situation, reflecting on how things played out and sharing that with you in case any of it helps.

Unfortunately when I'm in the situation I can see the sadness and anguish in his face, even while he's saying half the horrible stuff that he shouts at me. So it's really hard to see past anything other than his pain.
Absolutely! I think the problem is that we are so accustomed to prioritising DH's needs and emotions over the years that we become hypersensitive to them.

As I've said somewhere earlier, "You're not responsible for his feelings" is something I used to be told a lot by anxious friends, but I really could not even begin to understand or believe what they meant by it.

Actually choosing to "cause him pain" was as unnatural as plunging a knife into my baby's chest!
It went against the whole established order of me tending to his slightest mood.

You don't love him, and you dread a future with him. Yet you can't bring yourself to upset him further. I completely understand this.

The thing about sacrificing your own happiness for his, though, is... that he's not really happy, even when you do, is he? Your earlier posts confirm that he was never exactly relaxed and full of delight. So your self-sacrifice is not actually going to achieve what you want it to.

You long to see him happy. Bizarrely, he might have a better chance of attaining real happiness in his life if you are out of it. It will take a while, and he might never be as happy as you'd like him to be. Some people are just not wired up for it. But you deserve a chance.

alcemeg Fully spot on again.

You don't love him, and you dread a future with him
The thing about sacrificing your own happiness for his, though, is... that he's not really happy, even when you do, is he?
your self-sacrifice is not actually going to achieve what you want it to

One of the hardest things about all of this is that your husband will never have the insight or self reflection needed to see this and call it for himself. He believes having you back in your box (sealed ever tighter) will make him happy. But it's increasingly clear it won't. From all you've said I'm not sure he'll ever get over your "affair", he will never feel comfortable with an equal power balance in the relationship, and he will never be able to change himself into the "different person" needed to treat you as an equal, without rage and needing to dominate, in the context of your relationship. No matter how much you bend, twist and sacrifice yourself to his will it won't be enough. He will demand more and more, but it won't give him what he needs to be truly happy. He will never realise this though.

The enormous challenge for you OP is that he will never do what is best for him and what is best and simplest for you which is to call time on the marriage and release you. You will need to do that yourself. It will go against absolutely everything you've been trained to do, as you will need to trust in your own feelings and back yourself in your decisions no matter who is telling you that you're wrong. It will need to be enough for you to believe that you are right, and continue - regardless of what he says - to take the actions you believe are best for you and your DD, and ultimately him.

It will be one of the hardest things you will ever do but I also believe it will be the making of you (hopefully that doesn't sound too patronising).

@Cavagirl
The enormous challenge is that he will never ... release you. You will need to do that yourself. It will go against absolutely everything you've been trained to do, as you will need to trust in your own feelings and back yourself in your decisions no matter who is telling you that you're wrong. ... It will be one of the hardest things you will ever do but I also believe it will be the making of you.

A situation like this is only partly about escaping external circumstances. More than anything, it's about escaping internal prisons.

It's definitely the hardest thing I've ever done, because your mind plays tricks on you. It's like finding your way out of a maze when drugged.