Does love come back/what do I do

[helplesshopeless]

Nc for this.

Advice needed please, I've created a huge mess and can't see a way out/what is for the best. This may be long.

I am married with a 3yo. DH has always had a nasty temper, I've suggested anger management counselling numerous times but to no avail. The last few years since having my child have been really difficult. He's generally spoken to me with contempt and disdain a lot of the time, with occasional temper flashes, arguments are always toxic, things could get very nasty (never physical). On a day to day basis we would be civil enough to eachother, but nasty looks and snappiness from him were definitely daily as well, with bigger flare ups fairly regularly. We have had happy family times too and we both dote on our child.

All of this treatment from my DH culminated in my withdrawing from him and ultimately having an affair the last few months, with someone who made me feel loved and cared for. It was mainly an emotional affair but there was a small amount of physical contact (we did not have sex). This is someone that I work with, so although we're wfh at the moment, he is in team zoom meetings etc.

My DH found everything out last week. He is angry but also devastated. I have never seen him so upset and it has shocked me that he cares that much about me. He has completely woken up to how he's been treating me and is committed to having anger management therapy and working on things with me. I obviously am ashamed of what I have done and there is no excuse for my behaviour, but he does recognise that his treatment of me took me to a place where I was open to someone else. I still can't believe I had an affair because it is so against my morals and I fully deserve to be judged for it.

We are working on things and will get relationship counselling. There's a lot of self esteem issues that my husband struggles with, especially since we had our child as he's felt like he's been stuck on the outside looking in, and he thinks this is why he's been treating me how he has. I do understand this and it makes sense, but it doesn't change how he's treated me in the past and how damaging I have found it.

My husband wants me to leave my work so there's no interaction with the other man. I totally understand his point but am reluctant to do this as I'd then feel trapped.

I want to get back to a happy place with my husband. I don't want to feel trapped with him. I don't know if I can find my way back to loving him, whether all of this is coming too late after years of awful treatment. I accept I have behaved in a disgusting way and deserve all of this fall out, and am so worried about the impact on our child and how I'd manage if we separate. I am also concerned about the impact on my husband if things don't work as he has been explaining how it will crush him and he'd never be able to trust anyone again if we don't manage to work through this.

I just don't know if my heart is in this anymore, I want to be able to be happy with him and love him and our family deserves for me to work on this and fully commit to getting back on track, but I have no idea if I'll ever get back to where I need to be.

I am ashamed to admit I still have feelings for the other guy. I could obviously never be with him anyway so that is irrelevant, but it's clouding my judgement. I need to hear from people who have learnt to love their husbands again. Is that a thing? Will we ever get there?

I still can't believe any of this is happening.

Is it so bad to want to stay and improve things to be able to stay for the kids? There is a bit of a culture of 'LTB' on MN
Well. My perspective on that is I did stay and tried for a long time to make things work, my exH didn't stop doing the things that hurt me.
Looking back I wish I'd left much earlier after he really crossed a line, because I think the damage to me and my children increased by staying for another 4 years. I was emotionally numb and that got worse and worse. The kids saw a unhealthy dynamic they now mirror. And after 4 years he did the same again.
Marriages can be very "sunk cost fallacy" and aren't always fixable.

@helplesshopeless says in her OP that she has been trying for years and things have been very difficult since her 3 year old child was born.

How long do you think she has to stay and try to make it better ?

Just be honest and ask if they are the best person they can be (Their partner needs to do the same)

I am really reluctant to get drawn into a discussion about why people should stay with other people whose behaviours are controlling, manipulative and violent, with some implicit undercurrent that this is because they both are not being the best person they can be. That is not a good use of my time and ignores the dynamics of control.

But yes, it was clear to me that I could not be the wife my husband wanted me to be (and I spent many years trying to and also explaining why his way or the highway was not working for me or indeed fair), never mind the best wife I could be; and it was also clear to me that because of this and the conflict and unhappiness it caused, I could not be the best mother and person I wanted to be. So being the best wife I could be and the best mother and person I could be were not compatible. That was very clear to me. And there is a limit to how much you can expect a person to change without undermining who they are as a person, that applies to both parties. Being the best each can be as a couple requires an equality of commitment to that and an understanding people are different and you cannot mould them how you want and how suits you. People at the sharp end of coercive and controlling or violent behaviour do not have that, no matter how much they try.

So there is a reason why we have divorce laws and the impact on the children of divorce has been much discussed in the creation of these laws over many decades, including the recognition by policy-makers that divorce simply finalises the fact that a relationship has broken down, it does not in itself ‘break’ a family. That happens long before anyone reaches the divorce court. It would be great if no-one ever needed to divorce, but that is not the world we live in, and I really do doubt it is because people have not tried to be the best people they can be.

Anyway, I wish the OP well and I also appreciate the posters who have shared their stories. But I believe the OP has tried to make things better and I know from my experience that some things are not in your power because as your above quote acknowledges, making things better in a marriage requires two people.

but the implication is that it's only worth working on the marriage when you're financially dependent on each other.
No, that is not the implication of saying "What would you do if you were rich?" That question doesn't mean "If you're rich, leave him", but the opposite: it is a psychological trick to make sure that you are not subconsciously making the decision based on money worries, without realising it.

but the implication is that it's only worth working on the marriage when you're financially dependent on each other.

That is absolutely not what I had hoped to imply

I was saying take away finances, imagine that you had no hassle with the logistics of leaving, affording somewhere else, being solvent.

Make the decision without worrying about the Admin, Admin is surmountable.

I do think love can wax and wane and rise again if there are no real specific behaviours that have caused it to wane—- but if the waning is caused by certain behavioural things that cause you to see them in a different light or massively go against your ethics— it’s really hard to get back the same feelings

I was saying take away finances, imagine that you had no hassle with the logistics of leaving, affording somewhere else, being solvent.

And to add to the above suggestion by @Mix56

What would you do if you weren't afraid? If you could take fear out of the equation...

I have been thinking about this thread today but have been too busy to answer the question about 'how long to stay and try'. I do want to write a bit more, later.

Everyone has been really thoughtful, it's been really interesting to hear some many different viewpoints on the 'does love come back' question. I've enjoyed contributing to the thread so thanks @helpless hopeless for starting the thread and do come back to tell us how you're getting on!

Morning everyone. Really enjoyed reading all of your thoughts on this topic, very thought provoking

No real update from me, my husband has been so lovely recently and is working really hard on things. He's booking all sorts of activities, meals out etc (also being mindful of me wanting space, don't worry!). I went away for a night on Saturday to a friend's house and he cleaned the house and my car from top to bottom while I was gone (also was the first time he'd had our daughter overnight without me and they both did really well). He's been considering his past behaviour and is really ashamed of the kind of person he slipped into being. He says he really loves me and is committed to making me happy.

He also knows I don't love him, but that this is possibly due to me having 'frozen' towards him. So my task is to work on 'unfreezing' my feelings and seeing if I think I can get there again with him. We're trying to be very honest with eachother about the process, the problem is I don't know how long it will take me to conclude and he in the meantime is in this terrible limbo where he is almost constantly 'auditioning' to show me i can love him. So that's really hard for him and also hard for me to be doing that to him. I do care about him, I don't like seeing him unhappy, but at this stage I just see him as a friend with a shared passion (our daughter).

So we're still a bit stuck, but in the meantime things are a bit more pleasant. I just don't want to slip back into accepting my life as it is, knowing that I'm married to someone I don't love.

Good to hear you are ok and sounds like your husband is trying very hard. Hopefully your break was a good chance to clear your head a little.

Be kind to yourself - you are going through a really tough and confusing part of your life right now. Remember you can’t force yourself to feel something and it’s ok to also acknowledge the different conflicting parts of yourself - the part that wants things to work out in your marriage and the part that is moving away from your partner.

I can relate to your comment about your husband feeling he is constantly auditioning for your love. My husband l think felt the same. It’s an uncomfortable position to be in. It will take time, consistency and patience from him in all his efforts for you to trust that he really is sincerely committed to genuine change. Unfortunately for me, my husband’s needs always reared up and swamped his efforts meaning that l never healed from his secrecy and betrayal. He also gaslighted and manipulated me terribly and l can only see this clearly now l am out.

Take lots of care and keep posting whatever happens, good or bad xx

So glad to hear your update, @helplesshopeless!

Honestly, you sound incredibly sane in what is a completely crazy-making situation.

At least he is making an effort. My own ex-DH was more just "How DARE you do this to me!" etc and rubbing my nose in my own anxiety about whether I was doing the right thing or not.

Still, you being under pressure to return feelings is always a horrid position to be in. It's great that you have such clarity about your own feelings. I'm really impressed that you can keep such a level head.

There are certainly worse fates than (if ultimately necessary) becoming "friends with a shared passion (our daughter)" ... Daphne Rose Kingma has something interesting to say on what she calls "the redefinition ritual," where you assign a more appropriate role to each other over time.

good luck OP and I do hope you will stay in touch!

I think making this U turn is going to be hard to keep up.
& why if he is able to be pleasant, clean the house, accept you going off for a Girly evening, did he not behave like thus before?
I am sceptic that it will last for long, he will say, "OK, Ive been earning Brownie points for x tine now, time to accept our life is OK....
Time will tell

Yes, I agree it sounds like you have more clarity in your own mind, if not a clear pathway through the situation.

Clarity in your own mind is that you are married to someone you do not love. You seem to be seeing this as a fault to be fixed in you, that somehow you can ‘unfreeze’ your feelings, rather than as a product of what has happened over the years. You also think his happiness is your responsibility which is a big burden to carry. So to make this work requires unfreezing your feelings and making him happy, or at least avoiding him being unhappy. You have got a very honest and open conversation about the process going on which seems on the surface good but equally is also a continued pressure, even if unspoken, to reach a decision. It sounds quite exhausting.

I suppose my blunt assessment is that you cannot say how long it will take to ‘unfreeze’ because deep down you know it is not going to happen and you don’t want to hurt him (and quite possibly are scared of his pleasant behaviour disappearing again). Time will tell. I am a big fan of doing nothing when you don’t know what to do as things usually become clearer in time.

@KatySun

Yes, I agree it sounds like you have more clarity in your own mind, if not a clear pathway through the situation.

Clarity in your own mind is that you are married to someone you do not love. You seem to be seeing this as a fault to be fixed in you, that somehow you can ‘unfreeze’ your feelings, rather than as a product of what has happened over the years. You also think his happiness is your responsibility which is a big burden to carry. So to make this work requires unfreezing your feelings and making him happy, or at least avoiding him being unhappy. You have got a very honest and open conversation about the process going on which seems on the surface good but equally is also a continued pressure, even if unspoken, to reach a decision. It sounds quite exhausting.

I suppose my blunt assessment is that you cannot say how long it will take to ‘unfreeze’ because deep down you know it is not going to happen and you don’t want to hurt him (and quite possibly are scared of his pleasant behaviour disappearing again). Time will tell. I am a big fan of doing nothing when you don’t know what to do as things usually become clearer in time.

I'd agree with every molecule of this, @KatySun.

How is your therapy going OP?

I just don't want to slip back into accepting my life as it is, knowing that I'm married to someone I don't love.
This is really important, isn't it - that feeling of being genuine and not constantly suppressing your own wishes. If that works in your marriage, all the better, as long as this guy can really get his act together. If it doesn't work, you've given it a good try.

@QuentinBunbury I'm in exactly the same position at the moment. Just ended it 2 days ago nearly 3 years later than I should have. You can keep trying for so long but the reality is that people don't really change unless they undergo years of therapy.
In my case my ex blames me for so much. He even had the audacity to say that his behaviour (ie abuse) affected me more than it should have done due to a past abusive relationship I was in.
OP, your daughter is young at the moment but I'm am really worried about the impact of seeing such an awful relationship dynamic on my 9 year old. It best not to let it get to that stage.
You say your husband is trying now and doing lots of nice things. My ex did exactly the same. Cooking loads, doing the garden, dieting, cleaning, etc etc but at the end of the day I knew he was only doing it to 'win me back'. That caused me to feel immense pressure and guilt. You can't win someone back if they don't love you anymore because you've had to endure years of their awful behaviour. I been in a relationship with someone I've not loved for over 3 years 'for the children' but I know deep down that ending it is the right thing to do for me and my girls.

@InterstellarOverdrive same

I got the blame for his short tempter and (sometimes violent) outbursts as well, apparently I wanted him to hit me.

Life is so much simpler now.

You say your husband is trying now and doing lots of nice things. My ex did exactly the same.
And mine. But then it always got too much and the mask would slip and he'd say something that showed the contempt he had for me.
The hardest thing about these relationships is when things are good they are really good and it can seem over the top to give up on that because of the abuse. But the abuse slowly destroys your self esteem and love for your partner.

I just think even with the best of intentions, it is hard for either partner to keep up their best behaviour.

In my situation, I ended up feeling that I didn't want to either be policing my ex-DH's behaviour constantly or making him feel that he had to dance like a monkey to keep me. (Not that he tried, particularly! But all kinds of wild promises were made.)

I also had to constantly police my own behaviour, since our patterns of relating to each other (chiefly me looking after him) had become so automatic. I mean, these patterns of relating don't just arise in a vacuum. They arise because of our essential natures, so they're hard to reverse.

And why would you want to keep your own essential nature in check? Easier/nicer to be alone, or with someone where the dynamics are naturally healthier...

Thank you everyone again 

Clarity in your own mind is that you are married to someone you do not love. You seem to be seeing this as a fault to be fixed in you, that somehow you can ‘unfreeze’ your feelings, rather than as a product of what has happened over the years. You also think his happiness is your responsibility which is a big burden to carry. So to make this work requires unfreezing your feelings and making him happy, or at least avoiding him being unhappy.

I do see this as something that is my responsibility to fix if possible - he is working hard on fixing his problems that contributed to our issues, so I do feel like I need to try and fix mine. He's so hopeful that we could have such a great future, and I can definitely buy into that vision, but I'm just concerned that I don't properly feel it and won't ever feel it.

There are certainly worse fates than (if ultimately necessary) becoming "friends with a shared passion (our daughter)" ... Daphne Rose Kingma has something interesting to say on what she calls "the redefinition ritual," where you assign a more appropriate role to each other over time.

Thank you, I'll definitely continue reading that book - just need to find some more quiet time! Maybe that will help me come to terms with my feelings.

Remember you can’t force yourself to feel something and it’s ok to also acknowledge the different conflicting parts of yourself - the part that wants things to work out in your marriage and the part that is moving away from your partner.

That's exactly what it feels like, some sort of inner battle between my 'wants' and 'shoulds' - ideally I can work out how to align them but goodness knows how!

@Cavagirl my therapy is going ok. I get an awful feeling that she thinks that she is helping me move towards accepting separation, whereas I am desperately searching for ways to make it work and switch myself back on - of course she can't help with that! Just lots of encouragement to allow myself to feel my feelings and give myself permission to acknowledge my own wants and needs.

I also had to constantly police my own behaviour, since our patterns of relating to each other (chiefly me looking after him) had become so automatic. I mean, these patterns of relating don't just arise in a vacuum. They arise because of our essential natures, so they're hard to reverse.

Yes!! I do feel like we have a really awful dynamic, because I am constantly suppressing myself/second guessing his moods just in case he's having a bad day, but he is also picking up on that now because he feels like he is trying to tiptoe around me to keep me happy! What a mess!

Anyway, thanks again to you all for your support, I really do appreciate each comment

I wonder if there is a way to switch love back on when it has been eroded by anger, toxic arguments, contempt and nasty behaviour. It seems to me it would need you to forget basically and that is not how our minds and bodies work. You would also have to unlearn the anxiety around guessing/second guessing his moods in case he was having a bad day.

You are trying to make yourself feel something you don’t.

I wonder also if it is possible to feel/recover your emotions in other areas of your life, to do things for you which are not all about whether your marriage will work or not, just concentrating on what makes you happy outside your marriage?

I am so sorry but your situation sounds exhausting to me. I can see the financial and security benefits of a two-parent household and I can see why you would buy into a vision of how it might be but it sounds so exhausting and sad all around to try and make yourself love someone when you don’t love them. I hope you find joy in other things you do.

Some relationships are not worth saving.

It sounds tiring, joyless, forced.
Coming home from work, (assuming you are going out) how does it feel ?
Are you happy, or do you feel like you are going to some kind of theatre. both of you playing a part ?

Why do you think that YOU owe it to your family to make it work when he has been treating you like that for years? It won't work because he thinks it is ok to treat someone like that and he will always revert to that. Don't waste any more of your life with this man and don't feel responsible for him. We all get stressed- he chooses to treat you like shit when he is stressed. It is entirely his choice. Get out while you have some life left in you.