Does love come back/what do I do

[helplesshopeless]

Nc for this.

Advice needed please, I've created a huge mess and can't see a way out/what is for the best. This may be long.

I am married with a 3yo. DH has always had a nasty temper, I've suggested anger management counselling numerous times but to no avail. The last few years since having my child have been really difficult. He's generally spoken to me with contempt and disdain a lot of the time, with occasional temper flashes, arguments are always toxic, things could get very nasty (never physical). On a day to day basis we would be civil enough to eachother, but nasty looks and snappiness from him were definitely daily as well, with bigger flare ups fairly regularly. We have had happy family times too and we both dote on our child.

All of this treatment from my DH culminated in my withdrawing from him and ultimately having an affair the last few months, with someone who made me feel loved and cared for. It was mainly an emotional affair but there was a small amount of physical contact (we did not have sex). This is someone that I work with, so although we're wfh at the moment, he is in team zoom meetings etc.

My DH found everything out last week. He is angry but also devastated. I have never seen him so upset and it has shocked me that he cares that much about me. He has completely woken up to how he's been treating me and is committed to having anger management therapy and working on things with me. I obviously am ashamed of what I have done and there is no excuse for my behaviour, but he does recognise that his treatment of me took me to a place where I was open to someone else. I still can't believe I had an affair because it is so against my morals and I fully deserve to be judged for it.

We are working on things and will get relationship counselling. There's a lot of self esteem issues that my husband struggles with, especially since we had our child as he's felt like he's been stuck on the outside looking in, and he thinks this is why he's been treating me how he has. I do understand this and it makes sense, but it doesn't change how he's treated me in the past and how damaging I have found it.

My husband wants me to leave my work so there's no interaction with the other man. I totally understand his point but am reluctant to do this as I'd then feel trapped.

I want to get back to a happy place with my husband. I don't want to feel trapped with him. I don't know if I can find my way back to loving him, whether all of this is coming too late after years of awful treatment. I accept I have behaved in a disgusting way and deserve all of this fall out, and am so worried about the impact on our child and how I'd manage if we separate. I am also concerned about the impact on my husband if things don't work as he has been explaining how it will crush him and he'd never be able to trust anyone again if we don't manage to work through this.

I just don't know if my heart is in this anymore, I want to be able to be happy with him and love him and our family deserves for me to work on this and fully commit to getting back on track, but I have no idea if I'll ever get back to where I need to be.

I am ashamed to admit I still have feelings for the other guy. I could obviously never be with him anyway so that is irrelevant, but it's clouding my judgement. I need to hear from people who have learnt to love their husbands again. Is that a thing? Will we ever get there?

I still can't believe any of this is happening.

Thanks everyone. It's a good idea to keep a little diary of things to try and keep my head straight.

Be firm and cool today. Maybe think of one or two stock responses to give him when he tries to draw you into another toxic discussion

Yes, trying this today. Also said we can't discuss anything until tonight anyway as I don't want anything said in front of DD. I'm happy to talk to him about our plans/where to go from here but will be careful about what kind of discussion I'm drawn into.

If you go away alone next weekend, the way he’s talking, it wouldn’t entirely surprise me if he changed the locks on you and refused to allow you access to your DD unless you agreed to get back together with him.

Oh, he definitely wouldn't do that! At a push he would maybe use it to say I had to move out, but he wouldn't withhold access to DD and he wouldn't use it as a bargaining tool for us to stay together. He has some pride i think!

You really really shouldn't agree anything wrt contact agreements outside of solicitors OP. He will try to get you to, and play all the cards he has re. affair/guilt/threats but you must stay firm on this.

Yes, the one thing I'm clear on is that I won't agree or discuss anything until I've had advice. I am just conscious of doing anything with Dd that could be shown to be me trying to limit access or make things difficult for him, in case that makes me look bad.

I hear what you're all saying about the cycle of abuse and manipulation, but I keep coming back to the fact that I think he is just a normal person who has extreme dickhead tendencies, he's very sad about what I've done to him and is trying to find his way through. I am still struggling to see anything more than that in him. I get how frustrating that must be to you all

Taking your daughter away for a night isn't limiting access

Oh, he definitely wouldn't do that! At a push he would maybe use it to say I had to move out, but he wouldn't withhold access to DD and he wouldn't use it as a bargaining tool for us to stay together. He has some pride i think!

I think you need to plan for the worst, but hope for the best. Remember at this point many PPs have been better at predicting his behaviour than you have.
Assuming you know someone well enough to be able to predict their behaviour when you're going through a marriage breakdown always results in unpleasant surprises of what they're capable of, ime. And that's before you're dealing with someone who, in your best case scenario, is an extreme dickhead. Plan for the worst, hope for the best.x

Sorry I haven't RTFT but regardless what you decide about relationship with DH you really do need to put real distance between you and the other man if you a serious about ending your emotional involvement. Even if that means leaving a job you love. No contact. Block on all SM. Otherwise you will always be looking his way and you need to fully move on

he is just a normal person who has extreme dickhead tendencies
Read back your OP. That isn't normal. He's trained you to think it is.
How would you feel if DD had a partner who was angry, and spoke to her with contempt? Would you tell her it was normal?

I have only read your replies quickly and I have not read all the comments, sorry.

I personally would not engage at all about your plans etc until you have seen a lawyer and have some clarity in your own mind about what you want to do. He will say one thing one day and another the next so that your head is spaghetti and such conversations are exhausting. You have agreed to talk to him tonight, but it would be perfectly fine to say that you would prefer not to have a lengthy discussion, and you will take time to reflect on what he is saying. Your time to reflect can then take you passed when you have seen the lawyer. Just tell him it is not helpful to keep going around in circles in discussion. And keep saying that. The longer the conversation, the more chance for spaghetti head.

I agree with you that I would not remove DD from the house overnight until you have legal advice and a clear pathway forward. You have to take the view that he has equal parental rights and responsibilities as you, and as you say, you would be furious if he removed Dd without your agreement. So you cannot do that. If you take DD away for the night, you would need to allow him similar. You may wish to do that to see how things go, or leave her overnight with him, to see how she manages but I would hold off on that and do it as part of a clearly negotiated plan in good time. Remember you need to act in DD’s best interests and part of that is trying to set up a positive co-parenting relationship and be very clear the issues are between you and your husband. You have set this on the right path by being clear you do not wish to discuss matters in front of DD. If he says again he wants 50:50 contact, then it might be a good idea to have a stick phrase like, we need to act in DD’s best interests and take time to figure out what works best for her.

He may be a normal person who has dickhead tendencies, but the end result is the same - his behaviour is controlling and manipulative. It is better if you think he is a normal person who has dickhead tendencies, as he will always be your DD’s father. However, even if he is a normal person with dickhead tendencies, rather than an abuser or whatever, then I still think there is merit in shifting the narrative to centre you and what you want.

*stock phrase

Of course if he is violent or you feel under threat, then you should absolutely leave but that would be a different scenario.

I hear what you're all saying about the cycle of abuse and manipulation, but I keep coming back to the fact that I think he is just a normal person who has extreme dickhead tendencies
Manipulative abusers aren't all like Hannibal Lecter. "Normal" people, i.e. not psychopaths, can still be manipulative and abusive to their partner despite also crying at soppy films, loving cats and giving to charity.
If you're at the receiving end of this, it makes no difference to you if he is doing it deliberately because he is heartless or doing it without realising that it's abusive, out of desperation because that's just how he reacts when in a tight corner.

Oh, he definitely wouldn't do that! At a push he would maybe use it to say I had to move out, but he wouldn't withhold access to DD and he wouldn't use it as a bargaining tool for us to stay together. He has some pride i think!

Of course he wouldn’t do that . He would just say

“ Darling Helpless has been struggling with her mental health for some time now and it’s got a lot worse recently. I’ve begged to go to the doctor but she’s refused.

“ She’s had an affair with a man at work ( I have proof and she had admitted it ) and she has threatened to go and live with him and leave DD behind. I’ve said I’ll do anything to make it work but she won’t listen, whatever I say or do.

“Her behaviour has been increasingly erratic and one day after a row she stormed out the house, saying she was going to kill her self. I’ve no idea where she went but she stayed away for several nights.

“ I thought about phoning the police or her family but decided against it. I just wanted to keep everything stable for our precious DD who has been abandoned by her mother.

“ I was worried that in her mental state she might lose the house keys so I replaced the locks and got a copy made for Helpless when she came home. She arrived back out of the blue and when ;her keys didn’t fits she went crazy, banging on the door and screaming that she wanted to see DD.

“ DD was terrified of course - she’s been very upset by her mother’s erratic and unstable behaviour. I was afraid that helpless was mentally unwell / drunk / high and might harm DD so I asked her to go and stay else where for few days, until we can get an expert assessment of her mental health and reassurance that’s she is safe around DD”.

“ All I care about is DDs welfare and getting some psychiatric help for my wife. “

Well, yes, my xH argued in court that I was mentally unstable. The judge did not pay any attention to him, fortunately. It made perfect sense to xH because of course, why else would I have left him aside from having lost my mind? Plus, he wanted to muddy the waters as regards what I was saying about his behaviour.

he is just a normal person who has extreme dickhead tendencies

My ex-husband was like that too. He had many fine qualities and I couldn't imagine being with anyone else. However, life without him turned out to be much happier.

Good luck OP

he's very sad about what I've done to him and is trying to find his way through.

Why isn't he very sad about what he did to you?

STOP making him the victim in all this. He isn't. Read your OP! He's the one that wrecked his own marriage. Stop feeling sorry for him.

DH has always had a nasty temper

The last few years since having my child have been really difficult. He's generally spoken to me with contempt and disdain a lot of the time, with occasional temper flashes, arguments are always toxic, things could get very nasty

nasty looks and snappiness from him were definitely daily as well, with bigger flare ups fairly regularly.

He is reaping the consequences of his own actions throughout his entire marriage. It serves him right.

"Nasty temper" & "temper flashes"are your own words. & that was when you aren't defying him.
Leaving an abusive relationship is known to be the most physically dangerous time.
Si dont exclude the possibility.
Did he remove himself with dd as promised.
He just isnt leaving you to think is he.
You gave asked for space, & instead he bombarded you with separating finances & 50/50 threats.
Today wants more "talks" & has set you up to worry about tonight's session.
I would be telling him to back off. Bullying & harassment is not ever going to get him the answer he wants.
Basically you need to go & visit your parents, with dd & research SHL while you are out of his grip

@Alcemeg that is what makes the decision really tough I think, my DH has many fine qualities too, but day-to-day life would be so much easier without his moods and temper...

Hope you have a better week @helplesshopeless

You could be me.

I left an unhappy marriage and after a year or so split stupidly believed his proclamations that he had changed so we got back together. On day 3 of the reunion I realised I'd made a dreadful mistake. About 6 months later I started an affair with a colleague and after less than a month of seeing this wonderful, thoughtful, kind, supportive man I ended my marriage for good. I realised i had been lying to myself and suppressing my true self for about 12 years and suddenly found the drive to see you only get one stab at life and I needed to start being honest with my own feelings. Yes there were difficult, horrible times during the following years but my new relationship was (and still is) everything I could have ever dreamt of. Ex was not a vile man in general but he was not a good husband. I had to hurt him and that was not easy but equally I had been hurting myself for years. 10 years later i am married to that same man I left my husband for living in a beautiful house with a child of our own and I have to pinch myself most days!

@Alcemeg how did you break free, what was the catalyst for you?

@Peach1886 how are things for you and your DS now? I hope things have settled down 

@Desmondo2021 you sound so happy! Did you have any children with your first husband? That is my main concern in all of this and making it so difficult to weigh up.

Hmm, good question. I suppose I just started feeling tired of life, so I started paying attention more to how I felt each day. I kept a little secret journal each morning. One day I found myself writing "I want a place of my own, to live on my own," and suddenly seeing those words written down on the page in my neat little handwriting was like 50,000 volts going through me. It was the first real emotion I'd felt in a long time. I read it over and over and knew I had to act on it.

Of course the whole process of extrication was the hardest thing I've ever done... and I capitulated more than once. But eventually I managed to get out, and I've never looked back.

Ending a relationship is hard for everyone, which is why we put it off for ever if we possibly can. But it might be particularly hard when you're in a relationship where you've got used to discounting your own feelings as unimportant (perhaps to the point of no longer even being quite sure what they are).

Giving yourself permission to acknowledge your own feelings (or lack of them), and then act as though your feelings actually matter, even if you can't quite bring yourself to believe that they do, is the first step to taking back control of your own life.

Yes, 3. After a rocky start we established a successful co parenting regime (successful if i still adapted myself to fit his nonsense) but that fell down after a few years, albeit the children were all well into teens/early adulthood at that point. These days we don't speak at all and the kids make their own decisions on their relationships with him which actually mean they don't have anything of any significance to do with him.

Morning Op, hope you ok.

My catalyst for the breakdown of my 27 year old relationship was him confessing to some historic hook ups nearly as long ago as the time we spent together.. He had always painted himself as such a moral man l couldn’t believe my ears.

He then spent the next 7 months trying to minimise, justify and excuse his behaviour while insisting he was still someone l could trust. He gaslighted me terribly and make me feel emotionally unsafe. It was this blame-shifting that has done the terminal damage.

Like you l could see he was desperate at the thought of losing me, confused, panicking, insecure and that was driving his behaviour. My adult sons do still see him as a good man who has made a series of profound misjudgments. However his needs still came first however much l needed to heal. He couldn’t cope with the lack of intimacy and began pressuring me unbearably for some reassurance on this level.

I think once the scales had dropped from my eyes, l began to notice his covert controlling actions more and more. I think this will happen to you too. Keep a journal and you will notice a pattern.

I’m nine weeks out and it’s hard. I still have a lot of unanswered questions. I’ve had some good support but it’s fading a bit now and l am facing single life with empty weekends to fill. But he hasn’t changed and l know in my heart l can’t go back.

Take one baby step at a time- really try and get some space however you can.

@Whatdirection That's a wonderful brave story.

I’ve had some good support but it’s fading a bit now and l am facing single life with empty weekends to fill.

Early in the days of me living alone, I remember my panic one weekend when a friend came to stay and got in his car to go home on Sunday, taking the weekend newspaper with him. In those days the shops were shut by then, so I couldn't go out and buy another, and I had no idea how I was going to get through the evening.

Let's just say that we do learn how to find things to do with our time! Life gets better and better...

Thank you ladies for sharing your stories

Giving yourself permission to acknowledge your own feelings (or lack of them), and then act as though your feelings actually matter, even if you can't quite bring yourself to believe that they do, is the first step to taking back control of your own life.

That is what I am struggling with I think. I feel like
I don't really trust my feelings. I'm trying to imagine being happy with my husband and loving him but there's just nothing there. I don't know if I just need time, or learn to 'un-numb' myself towards him, or if it's a lost cause. I do feel like if I actually listen to my feelings then I'll be on a path to self destruction with divorce etc!

It is lovely to hear though @Alcemeg that life is getting better and better for you 

@Whatdirection I didn't realise it was so recent for you, I hope you're doing ok now the dust has settled slightly, despite the support feeling like it's dropping off slightly. You sound so strong and I really appreciate you sharing your words of wisdom 

I would say that your path to self destruction is more likely if you stay not divorce. I know that will feel hard to hear.

“I would say that your path to self destruction is more likely if you stay not divorce. I know that will feel hard to hear.”

This with bells on. It’s really striking that you equate divorce with self-destruction. Everything you post suggests that divorce would be an amazing opportunity for rebirth for you.

Unless I’ve now confused you with a different OP, I think a huge part of your problem is that you got together very young and have never been single as an adult and are perhaps more scared of the prospect than someone who had been single in adulthood would be.

But it’s very possible to do. My mum married at 18 and divorced at 52 and learnt to live alone very effectively (before meeting the love of her life in her mid-50s).

I am really sorry but it sounds to me like to be happy with your husband requires a different past and a different person! You say there is just nothing there. That is stark. And yet, for some reason, you equate divorce with self-destruction. Why?

That said, I do remember when I was in the throes of my marriage ending, which was a long and painful two year process, I clearly remember thinking when I wanted to separate that it was destructive and the feeling that I should not destroy my marriage. And yet I could not live with the arguments and the suffocating control. For me, there was still love for my husband, I wanted it to work, but I was realising the only way it would work was if I changed myself and my behaviour which I could not really do, or at least I was failing to do.

The legal process, once we had separated, was equally tortuous for many reasons, but we did come out with arrangements which are in the best interests of DC and xH did eventually manage to let go and I am fairly sure has a new partner. He now pays attention to DC needs and DC has a good relationship with him. I was not destroyed, although it was extremely stressful and difficult, not going to lie.

And yet, that is focusing on the negative because even through this long and awful legal process, I learned to not watch the clock as he would be expecting me back, the house was peaceful and quiet and I re-decorated it and re-did the DC’s rooms, I carved out a new field of work for myself, I took DC abroad several times on holiday and around the country (pre-covid), I did my garden, I am still doing my garden. I am at the point where I consider this awful situation over and I am looking around thinking now it is time to really focus on going forward, for me, not just coping and looking after DC. That is quite exciting.

And yet when I look back I do mainly see trauma over these dreadful years and not growth. Why? Because of the time and money it took, mainly, and the feeling that on paper our marriage should have worked. But it did not work. Leaving a controlling person, which my ex was, is difficult because they don’t stop trying to control overnight. In my case, it was 5-6 years before the post-separation dynamic changed. But there is another thing, I am measuring things against how they should have been. A marriage which should have been. The family which should have been. Because this is the ‘should have been’ which we are surrounded with and grow up expecting. The family which ‘should have been’ would have had two parents, it would have had a bigger house and parents who got along as an equal partnership. It is hard to let go of the ‘should have been’, how you hope or wish your marriage was. It is hard not to measure being a single parent against the ‘should have been’ when you are surrounded by examples of such families. But the ‘should have been’ was not my experience.

Looking back, given the choice, I would do the same again, the whole awful process, but this time I would not be scared. A week or so ago, I had the realisation that I am not scared of him anymore. I went through the whole process being terrified. If I could, I would tell my past self not to be so bloody scared.

Not sure if that is helpful because in the end you need to decide your own path.

Everyone’s experience of divorce is different, just like everyone’s marriage is different. But divorce itself is a legal process which you go through and there are legal entitlements for each party. So there is a limit to how destructive it can be because worst case scenario you get to court, the judge has to consider matters fairly.

And here is another thing, my final point, sometimes it is only by breaking something (or less destructively, taking something apart), that you let the light in. Or a gardening metaphor, my older DD had planted herbs in a planter but the mint was overgrown and suffocating the thyme. She spent some time carefully separating out the roots of the plants and putting them in two separate pots where they can both thrive.