Is anyone waiting until their children are 18 and then leaving?

[Countdown99]

If so how are you getting through the years until then?

Also please don't reply saying it's not healthy for the children to be raised seeing an unloving marriage etc or that the children will thrive once I've left him. Everyone's situation is different, and I will not risk my children being away from me and alienated against me etc. Only I know my relationship and I have the vast majority of control of the children whilst I'm in this marriage and I feel that is what is best for them.

I see where you're coming from but this is a big mistake I think.

Bottom line is don't raise your kids living in a sham marriage. They will KNOW. You can't fake it.

It's not only important in terms of what they learn about relationships. They are so young and at such an early stage of development that it plays a part in forming their very identities.

You don't KNOW what will happen should you decide to leave. You don't know you will be alienated. You don't know that it might not work out imperfect but good enough and certainly better for your kids than growing up in the bower of a lie and a sham at the very heart of their home. It won't be perfect. You will have to cede some control to your exDH.

I strongly think you need some help to think this through.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

Would you be advising your adult child to remain in such a marriage then?. You are showing them that currently at least, this is still acceptable to you on some level.

Indifference to each other is poisonous and children are not stupid. They do pick up on all the vibes both spoken and unspoken here and worst of all could go onto blame their own selves for their parents marital troubles.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here?.

@AttilaTheMeerkat exactly this!! I've had a few relationship disasters and probably put up with far too much! Had a bit of therapy (for a whole range things) and the best advice I got was "in 20/30 years time, if your DD was in your situation, would advice would you give her? And then, why should your standards of what is acceptable for your DD be any different from what you would tolerate yourself?"

OP, if your DD was in this situation would you tell her to hang around wasting some of the best years of her life?

But is the issue here not the parents themselves and the way they behave rather than the relationship?

If, the OP divorce, the father will still be manipulative. This behaviour will still hurt the children because of that (you just have to read the threads on here).
Home might still not be a sanctuary because of all the stress the OP will be under. Issues with finances, constant fight with the father, manipulation.

And the children will have to deal with the father themselves too.

Now I’m not saying that parents should always stay together no matter what.
But blanket statements along the lines of ‘ children are always better off when parents are divorced’ cannot reflect the reality of how complex and varied relationships are.

Please remember there is no good time to leave but there are worse times to leave. Hitting adulthood is a worse time to leave. The sooner your children get used to things, the better. Unless you are willing to wait 21 years until they are more emotionally mature, it isn't worth it. They willl also grow up seeing what an unhealthy marriage is

18 year olds don't have emotional maturity

I think you're making a mistake. They often use the children against you, and threaten all sorts, but in reality they don't want the work after a few months. I've seen this very often.

Many posters on other threads have commented to the effect that they were profoundly affected by their parents staying together for their purported sake.

Divorces that become adversarial and contentious is where the divorce process harms. Several of my son's friends have divorced parents and their separation was not adversarial or contentious; these young people have in the main adjusted well to their new circumstances.

Having two parents successfully move forward with their lives teaches an invaluable lesson: that we deserve to be happy and to feel loved. Conversely, remaining in relationships that perpetuate anger, devaluation, and lack of positive interactions leaves an indelible scar on children.

@ParadiseIsland

But is the issue here not the parents themselves and the way they behave rather than the relationship?

If, the OP divorce, the father will still be manipulative. This behaviour will still hurt the children because of that (you just have to read the threads on here).
Home might still not be a sanctuary because of all the stress the OP will be under. Issues with finances, constant fight with the father, manipulation.

And the children will have to deal with the father themselves too.

Now I’m not saying that parents should always stay together no matter what.
But blanket statements along the lines of ‘ children are always better off when parents are divorced’ cannot reflect the reality of how complex and varied relationships are.

If a father is manipulative , he will be when married to him or not. Staying wont change that

I don’t really understand, you say he wants to be with you, and that you want him and you to work, but you sadly just don’t think it will.

And yet you are also completely convinced he would be an evil, manipulative parental alienation candidate?? If he’s that evil why would you want the kids to also be with him 100% of the time?

Also - there is nothing wrong with working single parents.

edwinbear Yes to all your questions. If it was awful, if dc at risk, if there were lots of arguments then things would be different. This might be setting a low bar as someone mentioned but I have physical support with house and dc etc. and someone to call upon if I need them. My mother had none of this (except she did, my grandparents who practically brought us up whereas I have no-one else). And yes, financially able to do more things like be more available for dc especially as they are young.

And “the physical side of things”.

Unless he is truly evil I think that having sex with someone you don’t find physically attractive for decades is cruel, really really wrong and cruel. You can’t do that.

You talk a lot of sense @attilathemeerkat

Please don't do this OP. I stayed for years thinking i was doing the right thing for the kids. It caused the children and myself untold emotional damage. Children are not stupid and they will see through him eventually ( a therapist told me this and I didn't believe her at the time but it was very true). I only ended up leaving because he started his emotional abuse on one of my children and there was no way I could accept that.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

Many posters on other threads have commented to the effect that they were profoundly affected by their parents staying together for their purported sake.

Divorces that become adversarial and contentious is where the divorce process harms. Several of my son's friends have divorced parents and their separation was not adversarial or contentious; these young people have in the main adjusted well to their new circumstances.

Having two parents successfully move forward with their lives teaches an invaluable lesson: that we deserve to be happy and to feel loved. Conversely, remaining in relationships that perpetuate anger, devaluation, and lack of positive interactions leaves an indelible scar on children.

I fully agree with you there.

Which is also why I’m asking why do people think it’s less harmful for the dcs to get divorced when they are young than when they are young adults.

I think @AttilaTheMeerkat has nailed it. It's not about the age of the DC when you split, it's about how you separate when you do.

Absolutely me too. I have older children and younger children. The younger ones would 100% be more affected than the older ones. The older ones have their own lives. To the younger ones their mum AND dad are their world. Also the older ones understand relationships- they see things and understand.

I get really cross on mumsnet constantly reading about how much happier kids would be if we split - these people just don't look at the bigger picture.
Divorce is also very much for the rich or the poor - if you're in the middle it's very hard all round.
I'm staying put for the moment.

Also, if he's such a good dad and not harmful for the kids to live with right now, what's so wrong about the kids having time with him if you were to split.
You say you're worried about losing 100% access to them. That's you thinking about YOUR needs and it sounds a bit controlling tbh. Surely kids having separate time with 2 happy parent is better for THEM? Unless of course you feel you need to protect them but I'm struggling to understand what the actual issue is?

No but my friend's parents did that and it screwed him up big time. Would have been better if they'd left a lot sooner.

Just wanted to add my experience- parents divorced when i was 20. It was not a pleasant time by any means but i never wished they would have divorced earlier. I wished they would have worked it out somehow.
I'm glad that even though there were arguments (plenty of) and issues that we as kids were aware of , they stayed together until we were adults.
I think it probably is down to how bad it really is in the relationship and only you know that OP.

They will think their whole lives were a lie when they find out what you had planned.

If you leave you might upset them for a while but if you stay and lie to them for years you definitely will screw them up.

*goingtosaygoodbye"

Do you think they wanted to do it earlier but didn't because of the kids?

@SunshineCake
But surely people who do wait till there older don't actually tell their dc they only stayed together for their sake? surely you would just say you haven't being getting along recently and have decided to break up/get a divorce.

But surely people who do wait till there older don't actually tell their dc they only stayed together for their sake? surely you would just say you haven't being getting along recently and have decided to break up/get a divorce.

Children growing up in this environment are not as stupid as their parents would like to believe. Trust me the vast majority will have known for years that something was amiss and those who don't suspwct beforehand won't take long to question everything once they find out. In truth believing the children won't know is a lie parents tell themselves to ease their guilt.

[quote poppydog3]@SunshineCake
But surely people who do wait till there older don't actually tell their dc they only stayed together for their sake? surely you would just say you haven't being getting along recently and have decided to break up/get a divorce. [/quote]
Children are not stupid though. Do you think they'll think their parents are blissfully happy for all those years they're in an unhappy marriage.

@Sstrongtn

I don’t really understand, you say he wants to be with you, and that you want him and you to work, but you sadly just don’t think it will.

And yet you are also completely convinced he would be an evil, manipulative parental alienation candidate?? If he’s that evil why would you want the kids to also be with him 100% of the time?

Also - there is nothing wrong with working single parents.

@Sstrongtn I don't understand this at all either!

One post reads as though he's a great guy who she gets on with abs he's a great dad to the DC's. Other updates read as tho he's manipulative and controlling and she feels she needs go be around to protect them from him??

If it's the latter then you need to leave ASAP as they will be more damaged by staying in that situation.
If it's the former then it sounds like the only issue is that the OP would like to be with her kids 24/7 even if it means them being brought up in an unhappy marriage. This actually seems quite selfish to me.

What makes you think that 1) your DH will want to turn them against you, and 2) that your kids will listen.

My exH has only bad mouthed me once to my DD (she was 5 at the time, 6 now) and my DD actually got really angry at her dad for being nasty about me and wouldn't speak to him for a while. As far as I'm aware that's the one & only time he's done it and he learned from his mistake

Also, agree with @Sstrongtn that there is nothing wrong with single mums whatsoever. My DD knows without a doubt that woman should not tolerate being in any situation where a man is making them unhappy, I work full time with a good career earning decent salary and feel I'm an independent role model for her. And she has a great relationship with both me and her dad. Surely that's better than her experiencing her parents being together in a miserable marriage?