Drinking in the morning - everyone does it, right?

[fedup078]

Even when they have young kids?
Totally normal yes?

Well he's just told me to ask around. Don't fancy asking my friends so here we are
I'm being told this is totally normal and everyone does it, so why shouldn't he.

OP. I assume the lovely house might not be affordable on your own. Might it be quicker though to continue selling and find somewhere new for you and the children? Fresh start and may get him gone before he is able to create hassle about being bought/forced out?

@StarsonaString I've already pulled out of the sale
I want to stay here

He's told me he's talked to friends who agree with him and the more he thinks about it the more he's done nothing wrong and I'm just 'overly sensitive to these things'

Well changes are what he told his friend that he had one drink and you get arsey about that. (Or whatever he's been focusing in argument to you.)

He's certainly did not said I regularly drink in the morning and it's not the only drink I have that day.

Even if his friend has a drink problem too, I doubt he's being truthful about how much he drinks.

He can absolutely rent elsewhere with his name on the mortgage. Find somewhere for him, give him the number. Tell him he's leaving .

There's really no point talking to him. Start divorce proceedings and cite his alcohol abuse and its consequences under unreasonable behaviour. He will talk nothing but self-justifying garbage. My late husband was exactly the same. He did a stint in rehab but only because I gave him no other choice. Then when he went back to drinking within 2 weeks of coming out, it was all my fault and I shouldn't have made him do rehab because he didn't have a problem. The denial didn't end until his life did.

Same here, my ex said his "mates think it's perfectly reasonable" to drink the amounts he was.
I suspect he hadn't told them that he'd already lost his job to alcohol related heart disease. I suspect he'd massively minimised it. At the moment it's all your fault in his eyes. Be prepared for this stage to instantly change to another tactic when he realises you are no longer in denial with him. It will be self pity probably, begging, saying he'll change. Mine stopped drinking to prove me wrong - it lasted 6 weeks - but this chopping and changing can be very destabilising. I seriously think you should consider contacting one of the support groups mentioned, to help you deal with this.

Stay strong @fedup078 , it’s irrelevant how many friends he talks to who think that what he does is acceptable, it’s not acceptable to you and you don’t want your children in that environment.

Is he anxious about work? I know someone who struggled with a new job in sales, and said she needed a drink mid-morning before approaching new customers. Presumably she should have tried anti-anxiety meds, therapy or changed jobs. No small children or driving involved. She didn't become an alcoholic (to my knowledge).

[quote fedup078]@StarsonaString I've already pulled out of the sale
I want to stay here [/quote]
Well done, hope today is a good day for you.

@Tiddleypops @pointythings

In December I found him absolutely steaming at 11am on a Saturday morning . I mean totally off his face and then fell down the stairs . I posted on here about it and stupidly didn't follow all the good advice.
He left for a few days and promisesd he would get help . He made a half arsed attempt to contact AA. Didn't to my knowledge drink for a few weeks and then it gradually increased until our current situation
I am so so ashamed I took him back. So stupid for believing he would or could even put some effort into sorting himself out. I've put dc in danger by believing he wouldn't do it again . I must be a hell of a lot more gullible than I ever thought .

He absolutely does know that he has a problem but doesn't want to face it / do anything about it so minimises it. He wants you away at the weekend so he can drink without you on his back.

He will have told his friends that you got the hump because he had one glass of wine at 11:30 on Sunday morning.
In isolation it does sound unreasonable so, of course, they are agreeing with him. If they knew the full story they probably wouldn't think it reasonable unless they too have a drink problem.

My friend was married to an alcoholic, he at least paid lip service to having a problem. He started AA and dropped out after 1 week because it wasn't for him, he didn't need it. Went to individual counselling and dropped out after 1 visit because he didn't like the counsellor. It all ended when he attacked my friend and their DC in a drunken rage after she accused him of being drunk in the middle of the day. He was arrested and spent the night in the cells because he was too drunk to be interviewed - yet still denied he was drunk. They are not together and he is still drinking heavily. When he is sober they get on really well and she has said that if he gets sober she will date him but he is not going to.
Much as it will hurt you need to protect your family. Good Luck.

As other posters have said some days its totally acceptable eg Xmas morning, wedding day, airport and other special occasions. I remember one day in last lockdown we went for a walk on a boiling day and a local bistro had been serving takeout pints so we called for one and they had to check it wasn't too early to serve me. It was 11am and I was mortified. Drinking in the house on a morning on a normal day. Absolutely not normal.

@fedup078 please try to let go of that feeling of being ashamed. I know for me, it took a very long time to get my head in the right place and I mean years. I didn't know which way was up, the promises, the lies, the future I wanted with him, was very difficult to let go of and the shame isolated me further. I lost myself.

I'm on the other side of it now. XH is still drinking. I'm learning how to be happy and live and parent better. Life has come back to me. You will get there too, you can only do this one step, one day, one hour at a time

He's done some horrendous things in the past under the influence which I'm not even going to mention as I'm ashamed I stayed with him.

You have been in survivor mode - lurching, firefighting, from one incident or crisis to the next. To survive mentally you have had to erase or minimise things that have happened.

But it’s all there.

I would recommend journaling to keep you in track at this important time (this thread could serve as part of it).

I would start with a chronological list of all of the drunk related incidents over your relationship, what you did, how you felt.

This will show you the totality of what you have endured and what you are wrestling with. It will allow you to see the patterns, repeated, cyclical nature of the impact and the decline in your MH and family life as his problem gets worse and his denial increases. This is where YOU need to drop the rope - detach, detach, detach - because all of the engaging with him is sparking your rage because you are dealing with a liar.

You don’t need to engage with rage with him - it is FUTILE - he is draining your FINITE energy. Don’t let him take any more. Don’t give him anymore. SWITCH it to power you through constructive actions and seeking support.

Actions, actions, actions.

As PP have said tell everyone you are getting divorced - this pops his deluded gaslighting bubble into reality. You have no concern of his opinion or that of his friends. You have made a decision for you and your children. The train has left the station.

Refer to your list when you wobble and find some affirmations that remind you that you are now doing the very best thing for all of you.

Decide that you have been round this loop - which is a descending spiral of despair too many times and you are now stepping off.

It doesn’t have to be dramatic and chaotic - just nudge along with actions each and everyday.

Get family and friends involved - tell them you need help - that he needs to removed from the house because he is a risk to you all. If they don’t want to help - get an occupation order.

You are brave and courageous. You are giving your children the greatest gift of a calm and peaceful home with a relaxed attuned Mum that will ensure their emotional stability throughout life.

I am so so ashamed I took him back. So stupid for believing he would or could even put some effort into sorting himself out. I've put dc in danger by believing he wouldn't do it again . I must be a hell of a lot more gullible than I ever thought .

That shame is not helpful. Reframe it. You had hope, trust, belief - even if it was desperate - even an ounce of hope was enough for you to try to keep your family together......so you did what you believed was best in the best interests for your family at that time. Be proud of that. But now you know there is no hope for his change and your endurance of his drinking is at significant cost to your DC and you.

Don't be ashamed. It takes time to break free of an alcoholic. It took me over 6 years from my first realisation that something was badly wrong to taking action. When you love someone, you're tied to them in so many ways - through your own feelings, through your children, through your feeling that the end of the relationship would be a failure on your part, through your need to care for the other person. Untangling all those ties is incredibly hard. It's why I cannot say it strongly enough: seek help and support for yourself. If not Al-Anon, then another group. Have a look at this link for some more options: alcoholchange.org.uk/alcohol-facts/fact-sheets/a-guide-to-family-support-services

Realising that the person you love is an addict who values drink above everything else hurts, but your life will be so much better on the other side.

Please feel free to pm me if you want to vent in a more private space.

Don’t be swayed by anything he says. What he says in not the truth. It’s the delusions of an addict trying to justify his addiction. You know YOUR truth. You know what you saw and continue to see. His drinking WILL escalate and he’ll drag you down to gutter with him. I know, I’ve seen it too many times. Believe in yourself, you can do this. Protect yourself and your children from a life of drama and chaos.

@Sssloou

He's done some horrendous things in the past under the influence which I'm not even going to mention as I'm ashamed I stayed with him.

You have been in survivor mode - lurching, firefighting, from one incident or crisis to the next. To survive mentally you have had to erase or minimise things that have happened.

But it’s all there.

I would recommend journaling to keep you in track at this important time (this thread could serve as part of it).

I would start with a chronological list of all of the drunk related incidents over your relationship, what you did, how you felt.

This will show you the totality of what you have endured and what you are wrestling with. It will allow you to see the patterns, repeated, cyclical nature of the impact and the decline in your MH and family life as his problem gets worse and his denial increases. This is where YOU need to drop the rope - detach, detach, detach - because all of the engaging with him is sparking your rage because you are dealing with a liar.

You don’t need to engage with rage with him - it is FUTILE - he is draining your FINITE energy. Don’t let him take any more. Don’t give him anymore. SWITCH it to power you through constructive actions and seeking support.

Actions, actions, actions.

As PP have said tell everyone you are getting divorced - this pops his deluded gaslighting bubble into reality. You have no concern of his opinion or that of his friends. You have made a decision for you and your children. The train has left the station.

Refer to your list when you wobble and find some affirmations that remind you that you are now doing the very best thing for all of you.

Decide that you have been round this loop - which is a descending spiral of despair too many times and you are now stepping off.

It doesn’t have to be dramatic and chaotic - just nudge along with actions each and everyday.

Get family and friends involved - tell them you need help - that he needs to removed from the house because he is a risk to you all. If they don’t want to help - get an occupation order.

You are brave and courageous. You are giving your children the greatest gift of a calm and peaceful home with a relaxed attuned Mum that will ensure their emotional stability throughout life.

^ excellent advice!

Also if he is steaming drunk at 11am on a Saturday morning or drinking at any point to the level he is incapable of taking care of a child then this will need raising

@fedup078

This morning he asked me to go away for a night at the weekend so we're not in the house together , errm nope. He's told me he's talked to friends who agree with him and the more he thinks about it the more he's done nothing wrong and I'm just 'overly sensitive to these things' Hes also said it's not his problem I have a shit job and can't afford the mortgage on my own (I can, in fact I could pay the mortgage off in full if I needed but I want some put away for emergencies etc) He really needs to go but he says he can't rent anywhere until his name is off the mortgage Also there is a spray of red wine across the kitchen wall. Brilliant. But that's ok as I fully intend to decorate to my tastes once he fucks off

He is talking absolute shite. The only "friend" that would agree with him would be others with alcohol issues.

As for you going for the weekend. Is seriously suggesting you leave the dc with him? Or is he saying they ought to be uprooted because he is selfish and cares more about himself than his own kids? Neither scenario paints him in a good light. Mid he wants space, he ought to go and stay elsewhere.

I'm really sorry you're going through this.

He also doesn't respect you and is being downright nasty to you. Don't let him grind you down. You really do deserve better than the rubbish he is putting you through.

He doesn't want to stop drinking and ultimately that's all that matters.

He's deluded. No shame on you. He needs help but hes not ready. You will feel much better away from this weight round your neck

I feel like this would be easier if he was a vodka on the cornflakes rattling totally dependant on alcohol mess but he can prove he can go without
So it makes it worse that he chooses to do this

@fedup078

I feel like this would be easier if he was a vodka on the cornflakes rattling totally dependant on alcohol mess but he can prove he can go without So it makes it worse that he chooses to do this

He will likely be there anytime soon. The question is are you going to endure hanging around until that point - or can you give yourself permission that enough’s enough?

That is likely be difficult for you as the adult child of an alcoholic - because that’s your likely blue print from childhood.

You need support.

AA define alcoholism not by how much someone drinks, not by how often they drink, not by when they drink or what they drink......but by the emotional impact it has on their loved ones.

As PP said when someone’s drinking causes problems they are a problematic drinker......and if the problem isn’t acknowledged or addressed then that is enough to move forward with your own life.

I spent years arguing and defining “alcoholic” with the person in my life - they rejected it and I doubted myself. He settled on “binge drinker” - he thought that was acceptable (because he gave up drinking M-Th because he couldn’t cope at work - but it was fine to get so smashed all weekend to not cope as a father or husband)

But his “binge drinking” was “problematic” to my children and myself - so he had to go.

@Sssloou I've had the the same arguments
I had many people tell me my mother couldn't be an alcoholic as she didn't drink everyday and held down a senior role job
But she still managed to lose her husband , brother, all her friends and myself through drink. Her work mates didn't see any of this, I cringed throughout the readings at the funeral , it was like they were talking about a different person