March 2021 Well we took you to Stately Homes thread

[Sicario]

It's now March 2021, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Picking up from previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4030633-September-2020-Well-we-took-you-to-Stately-Homes-thread?pg=40

Forerunning threads:
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Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

@Iamaperiwinkle - I know this is probably a stupid question, but can you not just block the parents and FM? I realise it's a big decision for you, but it really does make a huge difference. It's the only way to stop those messages coming in that send you into a spin.

You will be operating on "high alert" because any contact with them sets of massive triggers. Stopping the contact comes as a shock - both to you, and to them - but in my opinion is a very important part of the healing process.

@Mixington - in my experience, it never really feels "finished" because we were programmed from such an early age to cope with our parent's behaviour. Rather than thinking of it as having to be finished or concluded in any way, it might be more helpful for you to think of it as having drawn a line under it all. It about moving forward on a different path that no longer includes any contact with the person(s) who have caused hurt to you.

[quote Sicario]@Iamaperiwinkle - I know this is probably a stupid question, but can you not just block the parents and FM? I realise it's a big decision for you, but it really does make a huge difference. It's the only way to stop those messages coming in that send you into a spin.

You will be operating on "high alert" because any contact with them sets of massive triggers. Stopping the contact comes as a shock - both to you, and to them - but in my opinion is a very important part of the healing process.

@Mixington - in my experience, it never really feels "finished" because we were programmed from such an early age to cope with our parent's behaviour. Rather than thinking of it as having to be finished or concluded in any way, it might be more helpful for you to think of it as having drawn a line under it all. It about moving forward on a different path that no longer includes any contact with the person(s) who have caused hurt to you.[/quote]
They have my email, my work address, work number, my mobile -children's mobiles -etc.

Because we moved and DD anxiety I don't want to change her number or mine -yet.

I feel if I block them

1. My mother -less abusive out of them both -can't contact me to repair anything
2. They can't apologise
3. They can't reach me if one of them are ill
4. They are still the children's emergency contacts- and if one of them is ill -it could take me 30 mins and them 5 mins -all the kids have medical SEN
5. I'm hoping
6. They could ratchet up and start contacting the children, work or NDN next.

But above all it's hope isn't it -I still haven't lost hope and I need to.

@Sicario I still care about her. I still love her I guess. I want to tell her I’m sorry things are broken and that I wish we could get along.

It’s really difficult to put my finger on why I feel the urge to do that though. I don’t want a reaction or a response, I don’t want to get sucked in or hope that things could be different (even tough the trust has gone anyway), I don’t want to hear her words irrespective of whether they’d be gentle or harsh.

Perhaps I just want her to understand. To listen and really hear me. Perhaps I just want to justify it (eg being NC) and think that saying it out loud to her would make me feel better.

God I wish it wasn’t so complicated. I wish we could just love, and like, each other.

Hi all. First of all thanks in advance to anyone who will read this!!

I was on here a few months ago so I won't repeat my big backstory again...but really having a terrible day. The end of lockdown here meant I was gearing up for my mother to come and visit to see her beloved grandchildren...We live about 5 hours drive away....all fine, well, not fine, because she is a black hole of negativity, judgement, criticism, rudeness with a side of the biggest victim complex anyone every had.

She is like a dark cloud in my life. I had a terrible, traumatic childhood and have pulled myself through, got a good education, a good job, a lovely family...but she isn't happy for me, just resents me further for not doing enough for her. Says I only care about myself even when I specifically asked for some understanding around the fact that I was working full-time, from home, with two toddlers during lockdown with no help (husband working). Her response: I'm selfish, unkind, cruel...etc.

A few weeks ago, knowing this moment would come, I asked if she thought the communication between us was normal, or whether it was like what other mothers and daughters have. For example, a classic conversation would go as follows:
Me: Hi mom, how are you?
Her: lonely, depressed, what do you think?
Me: oh, sorry, um...well...have you been out today?
Her: no
Me: Why don't you give x, y, z a call?
Her: no
Me: well good news anyway, I got promoted/got published/getting married/achieved something
Her: silence
Me: Well, its actually a pretty big deal...its been really hard work.
Her: silence. How are the girls?
Me: good...blah...blah...school...blah.
Her: silence
Me: well, ok mom...try and look after yourself. Would you see a doctor maybe? If you're feeling very bad?
Her: no.

So I ask do you think our communication is healthy? Her response "oh for gods sake". Shuts me down, won't listen. I said to her that after a lot of therapy since having the kids (I had some PND after my 2nd) I have learnt that her happiness isn't and never was my responsibility. That is was unfair, when I was a five year old, to tell me all the problems she was having with my father or that he had run off with someone else. I have told her that I have felt terribly burdened by her problems all my life and I want it to end. That I can't help her, I'm not the cause of her misery, I'm just a woman - her daughter - trying to work and raise a family in peace. I pleaded with her: I am not a bad person, there is no need to treat me like I am. Her response: put the phone down.

She just refuses to accept any responsibility for herself, for anything. She has sold a story to anyone who will listen (and most won't, because she has driven nearly everyone away) that she is this poor old lady and I'm the nasty, ungrateful daughter denying her the right to see her grandchildren after lockdown. My relationship with my only sister is pretty much done and dusted because of this story, and my sister hating me as a result.

I told her that unless she seeks professional help, changes her attitude, stops blaming everyone and the world for her problems, starts taking steps to heal herself and improve her life, I can't see or talk to her any more. I really need to stick to it, for my own sanity.

I can't imagine wanting to burden my children with all my problems, to make them carry this enormous weight on their shoulders and then blame them for my misery, as if they had any power to stop it. Not when they're 5, or 10, or 15 or 45.
Thanks for reading. I just needed to vent somewhere that someone might understand.

Hi openwaterswimming
Her response: put the phone down
That's as good as it gets, she sounds bloody minded and just wants to punish everyone in her orbit.
Please escape and save yourself, it's not your fault but she wants to make it your fault because....well that's who she's become, she's stuck in a trap that she designed and constructed for herself.
Whomever else she can get her claws into she will drag them into the trap with her.
As I see it you have 2 choices
1-walk away and let her sink
2-stay and let her drag you under with her.
there are no good options but one of them is better for you in the long run

She is like a dark cloud in my life
swim over yonder to that patch of sunlight on the water, stay there, you deserve to be in the sun

Thanks @Egoeswherelgoes. She has constructed this tale of woe for herself where everyone has done her wrong and refuses to look inwards or try and explore patterns, trends, behaviours etc. There's a terrible, terrible guilt about the kids not seeing their grandmother...when they ask etc...plus well-meaning friends saying "oh you must be so excited to see your granny" etc. I feel like the wicked witch of the west. I want a good relationship with my mother but she won't meet me halfway. Has just decided, a long time ago, that I'm always in the wrong. I can't remember anything good she has said about me since...actually I can't remember at all.
And I'm the only person she has.
How sad. So very, very sad. I don't know yet what it is like to have adult daughters and I have no doubt it is challenging. But if I saw one of them visibly upset by my attitude I might at least ask myself if there's any grain of validity to what they're saying.
Thanks again

Hi openwaterswimming

re your comment:-

"I told her that unless she seeks professional help, changes her attitude, stops blaming everyone and the world for her problems, starts taking steps to heal herself and improve her life, I can't see or talk to her any more. I really need to stick to it, for my own sanity".

Stick to this for your own sanity. Consider seeking therapy from a therapist well versed in both narcissistic abuse and recovery. This therapist should also have no familial bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment.

People from such dysfunctional families end up playing roles; yours here is scapegoat for all her inherent ills. She wants to blame you and use you as her personal dumping ground. I daresay you would not have tolerated any of this from a friend, your mother is no different. You've basically been conditioned and otherwise trained by her to put her first with your needs and wants dead last.

Your children need emotionally healthy grandparents and your mother does not fit the bill at all here. She could well go onto harm your kids in not too dissimilar ways as to how you have been harmed by her and that is no legacy to leave them. You are protecting them from Bad Things, keep on doing so.

You have to let go of any and all hope here that your mother will change because she will not. This is who she is and you have two qualities she entirely lacks; empathy and insight. She will never be the kind person you perhaps still want her to be and she will never give you the approval you seek.

And what EgoswhereIgo wrote too. Reclaim your life and cast off those irons your mother has clapped you in.

IIAP

You absolutely have to let go of any and all hopes here that your parents will change. They will not change and this is who they really are. They actively like having you and your kids under their control and they are also not above using their trained flying monkey to target you either.

Such people never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions.

Something I have learned - people don't change. They just get worse as their behaviour cements with age.

Some people are just not compatible with us. This is totally normal. We don't go through life liking everybody we meet. I guess it's the same with families. Just because we are related doesn't mean to say that we're all going to get on.

@openwaterswimming - slamming the phone down is a classic move by unreasonable people. My narc sister and her arsehole husband are very fond of slamming phones down.

@Iamaperiwinkle been reading through your posts and really feel for you. I don't have a huge amount of extra advice, but with regards to your doctor, whilst I can understand why he's sending you for treatment I was a bit surprised he hasn't given you anything to help you cope in the meantime. My situation was in no way as bad as yours (just a lifetime of put downs, gaslighting etc etc), but I developed bad anxiety and panic attacks, and was diagnosed with PTSD as well as anxiety. I have always said no to any sort of medication for mental health conditions, but was prescribed Sertraline (just a low dosage) and it has made a world of difference. Honestly, I can't remember a time when I actually felt normal. I don't feel drugged up, just don't have the horrible, debilitating anxiety. It also makes you think straighter, and to not give as many fucks about things .I just wanted to put it out there, as something that you might want to consider. (Apparently you can feel a bit worse before you feel better, but I was lucky and didn't have any of that). Xx

In many ways slamming the phone down is a gift, is the equivalent of storming off in a huff, they do it in the expectation that you will run after them and beg them to come back. What has really happened is that the trash has taken itself out so you can relax and get on with your life 🙂🦋

@AttilaTheMeerkat and @EgoeswhereIgoes thank you.
It's difficult when I know I'm dealing with someone who has had such a hard life...who almost certainly has depression (but won't deal with it) and who has been treated terribly by so many people throughout her life.
I spent 40 years feeling sorry for her, feeling like I couldn't express how I felt because it would upset her, feeling at the whim of her moods (whether she was down or very down, stressed or very stressed). She had no support except me, her daughter. My younger sibling was born much later and I was expected to take on a parental role to her to (although she can't remember that, and hates me).
If I ever expressed myself I did it wrong, it came across as anger and it was always "there's something wrong with you" "get over yourself" "its your hormones" "its ok, I know you're under pressure", "you're pregnant, I'll overlook this outburst" etc...all the while totally ignoring any point I tried to make, or discounting any of my experiences and essentially (I know now) putting the blame back on me ("if you have issues, seek therapy").
But then I just woke up! I realised it wasn't my role to look after her or make her happy. That I have every right to feel angry about my completely traumatic childhood. Having a daughter of my own was the clincher - I would never dream of treating my child the way I was treated - with neglect, frankly.
Of course all she sees is me causing problems, raising issues that I should have gotten over long ago, feeling angry when I have no right, being difficult, stopping her seeing her grandchildren, hurting her unnecessarily, being cruel, unkind and - as always - a selfish, cold hearted person. I have to live with the guilt that she is probably crying at home on her own now, having no idea why I don't "treat her with the kindness she deserves".

I've never known anyone pull the victim card quite so effectively. I've seen her act like she has early-onset alzheimers to me and then turn around to talk to my sibling on the phone and be all smiles, laughter and suddenly about 30 years younger. She says to me "she could die any minute from a stroke", and that shes "too tired" to deal with anything, that she is afraid to leave the house or to drive her car but then visits my sibling and I see videos of her swimming in the sea, smiling, dancing, posing, having trips on bloody helicopters ffs ...being actually happy. Then she returns to me and its all misery again.
Its so manipulative and its driven a massive wedge between my sibling and I.
Ugh.

I doubt very much she is crying at home alone; what gives you that idea anyway?. She is far more likely to be pissed off that you have not responded as you've been trained and otherwise conditioned by her to do. She trained you from soon after birth to serve her whilst putting your own needs and wants dead last.

What your mother has done is repeat the abusive treatment she received at the hands of her parents (and others) with you. She had a choice when it came to you and she chose to inflict abuse, misery and pain on you. This is all on her; none of this is your own doing.

You have to let go of any and all hopes now that she will change and become the nice, kind parent you perhaps still want her to be. It will not happen and you cannot heal her. Narcissistic parents often drive a wedge between siblings and indeed this has happened here; she is likely the golden child in this scenario and does not want to rock the boat.

You may also find this article to be helpful:-
www.bethanywebster.com/blog/we-cant-save-our-mothers-from-their-pain/

I have to live with the guilt that she is probably crying at home on her own now
As said, she wont be ( I think she's cackling in her rocking chair -or is that a bit too 'grim's fairy tales'😮) she has been laying the groundwork all your life to make you think and feel like this, she knows what she's doing and she enjoys the feeling of power over you.
You trusted her as children do and she has exploited your trust by using it to score points off you.
Her life is not your fault

@AttilaTheMeerkat that article is so helpful! Oh my goodness I just wish I had read these sort of things years ago, before a lifetime of guilt.

Thanks all. I've had my appointment with MHT cancelled by text -which is rubbish. Trying to rent somewhere is like trying to find gold-dust. I'm exhausted. Popped to work colleague who lives next door to them -don't worry they didn't see -their house is behind a huge hedge. Their house looks really weird. From the back of NDN you can see their house looming over -every single curtain is drawn at the back and side of the house -all the ones were were occupying. NDN was lovely and I started crying and telling her some of what has happened- she was lovely and has offered to pop around innocently and ask for 'IAAP 's post' but I said I was worried about what they might say or do and don't want to drag them into it -argh. She said they are abusive and even talking about it -I think did it really happen? Am I just tired and mixing realities here it sound surreal. I've come 'home' at 7.30pm and I'm wiped out -totally wiped.

@EgoeswhereIgoes I have in the past after trying to asset myself got angry texts from my sister who says I have "made mum cry" and "how can I be so cruel". I actually believe she is crying...she is a very vulnerable and emotional person who most likely has serious mental health issues including PTSD. The problem is that I've learned (aged 40!) that these things aren't actually my fault or my problem to solve (and believe me I have tried to solve them). I just demanded, in no uncertain terms, that she seek treatment, or try to heal or work on herself so that our communication can become healthier and our relationship improve. But she doesn't get it. Just sees it as yet more proof that I am a cruel and cold hearted person. No doubt my sister is shaking her head at how horrible I am and will post some inane social media meme or post (subtly aimed at me) about treating our mothers like the angels they are etc etc...
@Sicario yes the putting the phone down is a common move, because she can't hear what I'm saying and always acts like she's under attack. This is the thing about her victim status she literally acts like she is under fire if you say anything...Always, no matter how I phrase things or try and keep my voice level, or whatever...will say "why are you attacking me? Why? Why?" as if I'm a sociopath or a sadist. So now she just hangs up.
I only want to be spoken to with a measure of positivity. Jesus christ you would swear I was asking for the sun moon and stars.

@openwaterswimming - It took me a while to work out that my sister was constantly in Attack Mode. The most innocent of comments met with hostility. For example, once in her kitchen I tasted what she was making and said, wow that's really good. Her response was to shout at me "I can bloody cook, you know..." then slammed her cup down and stormed out.

Every time it's like, what the fuck just happened?

It's the old treading-on-eggshells thing. You never know when you're going to step on a landmine and cause a huge explosion.

Absolutely can't be arsed with any of it ever again. My sister is a deeply unhappy women. So is my mother. They are peas in a pod. I think if I was also unhappy like them, they'd feel more comfortable about that.

Iamaperwinkle it's good you have an ally in your neighbour, she presumably has seen enough of your parents to know that you absolutely DO need to protect yourself from them!
That is very sh1t to have your appointment cancelled like that, just gutting when you'd factored in having some professional support and it is casually ripped away like that:(
Have they offered an alternative appt?

openwaterswimming
she is a very vulnerable and emotional person who most likely has serious mental health issues including PTSD
So in a sense she's not quite the full shilling, other people have quietly washed their hands of her knowing that means you and your sister are lumbered by default?
She didnt ought to be your problem

No alternative offered for MHT I am supposed to ring them which will have to wait until Monday. I went yesterday to view a house to rent opposite the school -it is perfect. But so have I think 6-7 other people all viewed it. Now it's a waiting game to see if I can rent it. I don't think they will allow us to have a pet either -but again we will see.
NDN has invited us around today. But it is stressful being so close to their house in case they say something to us. I'm so stressed. Every weekend for the last 3 weekends I've had contact from them -what's the betting I get another email today. Woke up with a serious migraine this morning. The amazing thing about the house we viewed -it is so close to the schools and opposite end of the village from where they live. 1 min for the kids to walk to school. Please keep your fingers crossed.

Long chat with NDN at her house. Felt ok going there today and children didn't appear as anxious.
I asked her a question about her keys to her house -she looked at me oddly but I explained that at 10 yrs old and upwards we were never allowed a key and always had to sit on the doorstep when we came home from school. My parents had always given a specific reason related to the construction of the houses as to why they could not get a spare key cut for us and why we often had to wait on the drive for them to return. (He has his key, she has hers and there is no 'spare' and they always said it was impossible to get because of the design and shape of the locks etc). I suppose I always knew it was crap. But even in January my mothers was furious when I asked and shouted at me 'I've told you a hundred times ,it's because we can't.......because of X part of the design etc- I asked NDN (same house, same locks) and she looked at me and said it was total bullshit that they had copies for them, their children and key safe etc -and they were gaslighting me again.
I feel very stupid. I always knew it was a lie -but had no one to confirm it.

This is the message I have composed over the last 3 weeks -now had 4 messages / emails one from FM and 3 directly from them about post and TV etc I'm fully expecting round 5/6 over the weekend but it's all quiet so far.

I have already had a discussion with you on the phone about post (at …………given date and time……… 2021) -since then nothing has been forwarded on to me despite the agreement made, some 8 weeks ago. Regarding the TV - I have made arrangements twice to pick it up: once on ……….insert date……… (where I was promised that ‘everything would fit in’ in your car and there would be no need for more than one trip (it didn’t) and then again on …………insert second date……… -where again I was in a position to take it- on neither occasion was it returned. I was however, filmed / photographed picking up my own possessions, and given the run around for nearly 4 weeks and had to exchange multiple texts with a 3rd party to try to arrange it rather than have a straight forward conversation. Given that and other behaviour which has been on-going for months and the impact on both myself, insert name of children 1&2 and in particular name of eldest DD – having taken advice, at the moment I don’t see a situation where this is safe / normal for us. Your communication is inconsistent, you asked me to go through Y and then have contacted me direct several times -which is not how it works. You want to go through 3rd parties -fine. But I will nominate my own 3rd party in that case-that your 3rd party can contact mine in an emergency – if that is how you want to do things. Or we can communicate with each other directly as long it is respectful. It just needs to be consistent. Also given the current situation with DD -please do not contact her directly -this must always be done through me, she is not well. The GP is fully aware of our situation, and what has happened, as is my work. Right now, our health and stability comes first.

Please be gentle. I'm waiting on a house rental 'offer' to see if we can rent near the children's school -very very stressful.

Sending them that message merely keeps a door open that should now be closed. No good at all will come of sending it and I hope you have not sent it.

Your parents have been abusing you your whole life and they will continue to harm your children in not too dissimilar ways as to how you have been harmed. They are even more determined not to return your things.

I am sorry but not totally surprised to read that your appointment got cancelled at the last minute by the MHT. I would certainly contact your GP and inform this person accordingly.

I would consider looking at BACP’s website re therapy and your ongoing recovery from their abuses.

Ima
I have to echo Attila, there is no point, please stop reaching out to them in the hope that they will see things from your perspective, they wont.
As painful as it is, it's better in the long run, and less painful than repeatedly dashing yourself against a stone wall
Any message will be 'pearls before swine',
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you
that is what they will do with your carefully composed message:(
I am sorry, I still struggle with the feeling that if only I could explain things in the right way they will 'get me' they wont, it's not in their interests to :(

It's sad but the prospect of NEVER seeing them or NEVER talking to them again is incredibly distressing. I think it is more about managing them but I don't know how to 'manage' them and the thought of reply to their messages literally keeps me again ALL night. I did go NC for years and it made things worse not better.