Maintenance sex

[Sunnydays999]

I read about it in a magazine. They suggest even if you don’t fancy sex you have it to keep the relationship going . I’m thinking I need to do this . I’m busy and can’t be bothered ( also on meds that reduce sex drive )but I like my marriage , the life we have etc . It’s made me think ...
What are you’re opinions on it

I just wonder how many men feel obliged to, or are advised to, have maintenance sex.

As a man - it’s quite interesting reading this thread.

Late 50s tbh I am not as bothered as I used to be - but I still feel I should initiate from time to time. Wifey rarely knocks me back.

I think it makes a difference to our relationship when we do it - reminds us of why we are still together.

@Chersfrozenface - of course men feel obliged and would be well advised to rekindle their sex life if it had waned and their wife was missing intimacy. Noone should be obligated to stay in a sexless marriage and the onus is on the low libido partner to explore their feelings to see if they can change. I have advised a friend that he needed to address it as it would be bad for their marriage if he didn't. It's not even uncommon, its just more common that the low libido partner is female.

Quite frankly, I am glad as sex now seems to have become ever more painful and uncomfortable for the woman what with the need to shave, bleach parts, deep throat gagging, anal sex with the later worries of damaged anal sphincter muscles and faecal incontinence that these women are unwittingly storing up for themselves in the future.

No one is obliged to do this stuff, in fact I suppose most couples don't. There is nothing wrong with "vanilla" sex if that's what you prefer.

Chers, but it’s not about feeling obliged. That’s the whole point. It’s about people choosing if their own free will. The idea that people might sometimes choose to have sex, when they don’t feel desperately randy, isn’t about being obliged at all. In healthy relationships this can be a choice without pressure or coercion of any type.

And yes, I’m sure lots of men also have a sense sometimes of maintenance ex in a healthy long term relationship too. There is no reason why they would be any different and both mean and women in long term happy relationships look to do all kinds of things which sometimes feel a bit of an effort, because they know it benefits the relationship....that means both people in the relationship and the relationship as a whole.

I think it’s hard for those in difficult or unhealthy relationships to understand this. Some people unfortunately have had relationships with coercion or a lack of equality and can’t imagine making this kind of choice happily and freely.

I think there is a less spoken issue also - which can cause intense pain down the line. It is more often that when women go off sex with their DH they can assume they no longer like sex. It can take years but then something happens to reawaken their interest involving someone else. Only at that point do they realise that it was the dynamic of their relationship and not their libido.
The answer is more often the relationship - but familiarity and security can lower desire for those who crave novelty and mystery.

@Borntohula

I think there are probably a lot of people in denial about how happy both partners are with a sexless relationship.

I agree.

Quite frankly, I am glad as sex now seems to have become ever more painful and uncomfortable for the woman what with the need to shave, bleach parts, deep throat gagging, anal sex with the later worries of damaged anal sphincter muscles and faecal incontinence that these women are unwittingly storing up for themselves in the future

Um, sex is only like this if you want sex to be like this. I don't shave, bleach, have anal sex or any of the other porn sex. I am dating a 50 year man who hates porn sex too. Wouldn't date someone who did want it.

I would be happy never to give a bj ever again and I am very fortunate in my book that my DH has never even asked for one!

@Newstaronhorizon Absolutely, it's hardly a delight for most women.

@SoulofanAggron

I would be happy never to give a bj ever again and I am very fortunate in my book that my DH has never even asked for one!

@Newstaronhorizon Absolutely, it's hardly a delight for most women.

I love giving oral sex and I can't be the only woman who does! Its an act where I feel I get to be totally active. Where I am actively giving pleasure to my partner and can literally feel his arousal as a result of what I am doing. I really like it.

love giving oral sex and I can't be the only
woman who does!

Nope, you're not the only one! Love it.

@WombatChocolate

I wonder if those who say ‘never have sex unless you really want it yourself’ are in long term happy relationships?

Lots of what many have said on here resonates with me about long term, happy relationships where lives are busy.

In these lives, there is often real genuine affection, being a team and still sexual attraction, although it’s not the same as when people first meet. And in those marriages, people are often tired and sometimes have to actively try and make choices about all kinds of things that don’t always feel exactly what their top choice of use of time might be, but they make those choices because they are things that build and support the relationship.

Sometimes my DH will play a board game that I like, which he really can’t be that bothered with. He does it because he loves me. Sometimes neither of us really want to go for a walk, but we go because we know the exercise will do us good and also it’s a chance for time alone for a good chat and can’t think of a single time when afterwards I’ve thought ‘I wish I hadn’t done that’ and it certainly builds our relationship. Relationships need work and effort or they wither and die. The idea that it’s all romance and a strong feeling to always want to be together, when you’re well into a relationship is just naiece, in my view.

Mature people in relationships know that lots of aspects of their relationship need work and effort, and that it’s so worth it. It’s not a case of coercion, or pressure but choice. And as lots of people say, when they make an effort they enjoy it.

Perhaps a good question, having made the effort to have sex, when you felt a bit tired and more like going to sleep, is to ask yourself afterwards, is ‘did I enjoy that’ as well as to see the impact it has on the relationship in the time ahead and see if that’s a positive thing. In many cases, I believe lots of people do enjoy it and see the benefits later. And as others have said, the more you enjoy something and remember you enjoy it (it can easy to forget) the more you want to do it and perhaps you’ll initiate it even. Lives change and small children become less needy and the exhaustion of some stages of life passes.....and many of us want to still have our DHs there, who we love dearly at those next phases of life and not find that somehow our relationship has just slipped away through lack of effort. It can and does happen all the time.

This is nuanced isn’t it. Clearly there are women who really really don’t like sex with their DH or really really don’t want to have sex. Well they shouldn’t. There are relationships where people are manipulative about sex and it isn’t a case of someone freely choosing to have it but being emotionally bullied into it. That’s not good. But there are also loads of happy marriages where neither partner is a bully and both parties really like each other. Once they were mad for each other and now they are still attracted to each other, if a little tired by life. As others have said, a key element of marriage is sex. It’s the key thing that makes a relationship different to 2 good friends who are bringing up a child together and house share. It does make a relationship different.

No-one has to have sex...of course not. And no-one needs to be in a marriage or keep a marriage going. But the two things are often connected, and those who love each other and and have sex (regularity can clearly vary loads) often have good marriages.

Some people seem only to be able to imagine sex of the type people have when they first meet and can’t think of anything else. Or they can only think of it as part of something coercive or manipulative. There seem to be no grey areas of gaps between the extremes of gagging for it and being really horny, and either not having it at all or any sex being coerced and wrong. But in mature, happy relationships, some level of maintenance sex (which is a horrible term and has nasty connotations, but I understand and can see why it’s used) when someone regularly pretty tired and realises it could slip out of their relationship, can be both really beneficial (nothing wrong with going into something for boring, beneficial reasons rather than crazy lust) but also turn out to be far more enjoyable than initially imagined.

Thank you for this post, @WombatChocolate, I think you have articulated the nuance well. It was helpful to me because it validates the experiences behind those of us who are affected by sex baggage and lack of a model of a healthy sex life. Some of the responses on these threads can be so shaming of women in a way that is so unhelpful. But also important to hear how ‘maintenance sex’ can be healthy and respectful, in a way that is not shaming and suggesting something is wrong with women who feel unable to be open to sex when they are not in the mood. (Something is wrong, but it’s not their fault).

I love giving oral sex and I can't be the only woman who does

@agreyersky You're not the only one but I'm sure there are plenty that don't. I used to do it as part of my sexual performance, but it doesn't taste good even if they're clean. I used to deep throat too. I suppose it mightn't be as bad if someone doesn't go all out, just does it a bit and for a short time.

My ex had permanent ED and he used to get me to suck him off for 45 minutes at a time or whatever. Not fun.

in a way that is not shaming and suggesting something is wrong with women who feel unable to be open to sex when they are not in the mood. (Something is wrong, but it’s not their fault).

@Merename There's nothing wrong with someone not wanting to have sex when they don't want it. It needn't even be a result of trauma or a sign of other problems in the relationship or anything.

No, I know that, Soulo, that’s not what I meant. But some people due to their experiences would rarely be in the mood and I was saying that what’s wrong is the total inability to be open that if I’m not in the mood, that could change if I give it a go. I’m not saying it’s wrong - it’s someone’s right to not be in the mood and say no, of course - but I was welcoming the discussion of the nuance around it, and that the ‘wrong’ comment is about never being open can lead to unwanted consequences in relationships also.

@Newstaronhorizon this!!! I really wish this was true! Why is sex considered the glue of every relationship, like the core centre that is the make or break. I've seen so many people post on mns that without sex a relationship is pratically two good friends or two co parents, which is far from the truth! I feel things for my dp I would not feel for a friend, I love him in a completely different manner. I hug him, hold him, kiss him and care for him differently. I do not hold our relationship to sex, I'm happy not having it. I love the love with have. Maybe I'm naive? But I dont understand why without sex our relationship suddenly becomes generic...

Surely I can't be the only one who's man never initiates sex?
It makes me feel abnormal and revolting
And yes we've talked about it many times and nothing changes

Yes, I think a lot of this comes down to the issue of whether relationships are healthy or not.

Lots of people have a history of past relationships which haven’t been healthy or are in them now. Of course it clouds the way they view all aspects of relationships and if they have managed to move in from them, they can be wary and suspicious of anyone they have some kind of relationship with and fear manipulation or coercion. If sex has been used as a weapon to coerce before or has been abusive or not their choice, thenI can see it would be really hard to understand how anyone might choose to have sex when they don’t feel like it really, and that not be coercive or abusive or being a victim.

But lots of people have no background of abusive or unequal relationships, and some who do have put them in the distant past and now have healthy, happy long term relationships.

I’m not sure there is a place for so-called maintenance sex in the unhappy and unhealthy relationships. The kind of sex that people sometimes have in a giving way, into a secure and comfortable relationship, probably just isn’t possible, because of whole aspect of the relationship being unhealthy. So in such relationships sex can be used as a bargaining tool or to coerce or to bully....and none of those things are good. This is what people with a history of unhealthy relationships see or imagine when they hear the phrase ‘Maintenance sex’ - they see someone feeling obliged to have sex or directly or indirectly threatened when they don’t. And so they become very protective of sex and their choices, because often they haven’t had genuine choices. In unhealthy relationships, women (or men) might choose to have sex when they really don’t want to or they might feel the relationship is threatened if they don’t.....so they do it and think it’s to maintain it. But sex will never and can never have that impact in an otherwise unhealthy and unequal relationship. Women hope that having sex or performing sexual acts they really don’t want to, will please the partner and make the relationship better...but if the relationship is unequal and unhealthy, it can’t do that and just feeds further into the lack of health and inequality.

Really, there’s only a place for maintenance sex (awful term but I know exactly what it means) and for it to be a healthy choice with healthy outcomes, in strong, healthy relationships. Strong healthy relationships are based on respectful each other and commitment and compromise (which isn’t the same as being bullied or coerced by someone) and sometimes doing things that aren’t your top choice. This might involve pushing yourself to take the bins out when you don’t want to, because you know it’s fair and the other person did it the least 4 times, or showing an interest in a hobby you aren’t very interested in, or cooking a meal that you don’t like that much but know the other person loves. These things are all choices and little sacrifices because of love and recognition that healthy relationships stay healthy when effort is out in. And yes, sex is both similar and different to all those things I’ve just mentioned. It really is true that sex is the thing that marks out marriage or long term relationship from other friendships. Some marriages can survive being sexless, but most need it and as someone upthread said, fewer marriages than people might think which are sexless and happy for both parties. Often one party in a sexless marriage isn’t happy with it, even if they say they are. What that often means, is the marriage has a limited life span and eventually will fail, whether it officially ends in divorce and separation or not.
Lots of quite tired and busy people in long term healthy and happy relationships, have simply spotted that it’s easy for relationships and intimacy to slip. Busyness, and small children and complacency which comes from the long term, can result in people drifting apart and sex is often a key way to re-connect and maintain closeness. Lots of people have recognised this and as such, have decided it’s worth investing in, for the long term benefits. No-one has made them do it, and they do it because they love their spouse and are essentially investing in the relationship and probably invest in other ways too. Yes, it’s not quite as spontaneous and exciting as first sex, but there’s nothing derogatory or lesser about this kind of sex, which draws people together and builds their relationship.

[quote Denn35]@Newstaronhorizon this!!! I really wish this was true! Why is sex considered the glue of every relationship, like the core centre that is the make or break. I've seen so many people post on mns that without sex a relationship is pratically two good friends or two co parents, which is far from the truth! I feel things for my dp I would not feel for a friend, I love him in a completely different manner. I hug him, hold him, kiss him and care for him differently. I do not hold our relationship to sex, I'm happy not having it. I love the love with have. Maybe I'm naive? But I dont understand why without sex our relationship suddenly becomes generic...[/quote]
Well I guess it just depends if you are both happy with that and still feel that deep love without sex. I can see that when both partners have lost their sex drive (as opposed to just their desire for each other) that you can still have a deep relationship that is different from other friendships.

The problem comes when one person no longer wants sex and the other does. Then it does become a barrier, because one person wants the full intimacy (emotional as well as physical) that sex can bring. And if they can't get that intimacy within their relationship they may start to feel that the relationship is 'less', is diminished.

Yes, I think a lot of this comes down to the issue of whether relationships are healthy or not.

@WombatChocolate Not necessarily. Some people maybe just have a low libido or one that varies.

Yes I do think marriage is give and take. If it's a healthy loving relationship then I do think it's important to make an effort for the other person not just sex. So many posters wondering why their partner has had an affair or watched a ton of porn. Truth is men won't go without sex ! No point kidding ourselves that because we have gone off it they have too. They don't go off it So to keep things on track it needs taking care off. Of course it's a two way street and he needs to pay attention to your needs as well !

This thread is really interesting. The shoe is on the other foot here. I used to try and initiate sex or intimacy and DH is always too tired. I've stopped trying now and he seems happier with this set up. Sometimes he would go along with it but I would stop as I could feel he wasn't really into it.
I do wonder if I want to stay in a sexless marriage sometimes but it doesn't feel like a good enough reason to separate especially as we have a 15 month old. What could I possibly say to justify that decision to DS in the future??

I wonder if some of the differing perspectives come down to what people interpret “maintenance” as meaning.

If you’re thinking that regular sex you don’t fancy is a way of stopping your partner from grumbling or having an affair then it’s not good you’re seeing it as maintaining their good temper, cooperation or fidelity.

If you’re thinking regular sex is a way of connecting or reconnecting when life is busy and one or both of you could take or leave it every now and then but both enjoy it when you make the effort, then you’re both maintaining the intimacy and the emotional bond in your relationship, maintaining your mutual attraction and closeness.

I don’t see any shaming on this thread? Categorically no has suggested anyone has sex that they won’t enjoy or will hurt or make them unhappy. No one has said if you refuse sex you don’t want then you deserve to have your relationship end. But it is often the case that when the sex in a marriage dies there’s one person happy with it and believing the change is mutual while the other person is going along with it for an easy life, because it’s not worth the constant rejection, because the rest of life is okay and they don’t want to lose it.

I think someone’s already mentioned the long running thread some time ago where a woman was knocked sideways by her husband leaving her for another woman when their marriage was perfect. Except it wasn’t, they hadn’t had sex in 10 years, he’d repeatedly tried to address it, she refused to engage and he had enough and left her. Clearly in that case it wasn’t just the lack of sex, it was the refusing to talk openly about it and the hurt that’s caused by one person in a marriage unilaterally deciding sex was off the table and condemning her husband to a future of celibacy. Sure, he should have left her before having an affair, of course he should have. But she was in complete denial about the real state of her “perfect marriage” and it’s not shaming her or anyone else to point out that you can’t change the status quo by yourself and expect the marriage to stay the same.

The other thing I’d add is that anyone who’s tried to conceive and found it takes a while must have had sex when they weren’t necessarily raring to go. If a baby is a shared goal then you get on with it when you have to and no one says that’s dangerous or coercive as long as you’re on the same page.

I might be the only woman who’s said “DH I’m ovulating, i know you’re tired but let’s do it before masterchef starts, you can keep your shirt on” but I’m sure variations of that take place all the time. It wasn’t always very romantic but we laughed about it and it was always good, if occasionally a bit perfunctory

@AnneLovesGilbert

I wonder if some of the differing perspectives come down to what people interpret “maintenance” as meaning.

If you’re thinking that regular sex you don’t fancy is a way of stopping your partner from grumbling or having an affair then it’s not good you’re seeing it as maintaining their good temper, cooperation or fidelity.

If you’re thinking regular sex is a way of connecting or reconnecting when life is busy and one or both of you could take or leave it every now and then but both enjoy it when you make the effort, then you’re both maintaining the intimacy and the emotional bond in your relationship, maintaining your mutual attraction and closeness.

I don’t see any shaming on this thread? Categorically no has suggested anyone has sex that they won’t enjoy or will hurt or make them unhappy. No one has said if you refuse sex you don’t want then you deserve to have your relationship end. But it is often the case that when the sex in a marriage dies there’s one person happy with it and believing the change is mutual while the other person is going along with it for an easy life, because it’s not worth the constant rejection, because the rest of life is okay and they don’t want to lose it.

I think someone’s already mentioned the long running thread some time ago where a woman was knocked sideways by her husband leaving her for another woman when their marriage was perfect. Except it wasn’t, they hadn’t had sex in 10 years, he’d repeatedly tried to address it, she refused to engage and he had enough and left her. Clearly in that case it wasn’t just the lack of sex, it was the refusing to talk openly about it and the hurt that’s caused by one person in a marriage unilaterally deciding sex was off the table and condemning her husband to a future of celibacy. Sure, he should have left her before having an affair, of course he should have. But she was in complete denial about the real state of her “perfect marriage” and it’s not shaming her or anyone else to point out that you can’t change the status quo by yourself and expect the marriage to stay the same.

The other thing I’d add is that anyone who’s tried to conceive and found it takes a while must have had sex when they weren’t necessarily raring to go. If a baby is a shared goal then you get on with it when you have to and no one says that’s dangerous or coercive as long as you’re on the same page.

I might be the only woman who’s said “DH I’m ovulating, i know you’re tired but let’s do it before masterchef starts, you can keep your shirt on” but I’m sure variations of that take place all the time. It wasn’t always very romantic but we laughed about it and it was always good, if occasionally a bit perfunctory

Such a sensible and balanced post!
I entirely agree with everything you've said.

And yes - the TTC sex can be quite unromantic can't it. With this baby I'm pregnant with right now, I'm sure I said to DP at the time something like : "right, I've peed on my ovulation stick and it says today is the day. Come on!"

Romantic, it was.

AnnelovesGilbert, I agree that was an excellent post. Thank you.

@Mylittlesandwich

This thread is really interesting. The shoe is on the other foot here. I used to try and initiate sex or intimacy and DH is always too tired. I've stopped trying now and he seems happier with this set up. Sometimes he would go along with it but I would stop as I could feel he wasn't really into it. I do wonder if I want to stay in a sexless marriage sometimes but it doesn't feel like a good enough reason to separate especially as we have a 15 month old. What could I possibly say to justify that decision to DS in the future??

Being unhappy is reason enough to leave For most people I think a satisfying sex life is very important. There must be a reason why your other half has lost his drive worth checking at the doctors if it really has gone away that's not normal for a healthy male