Uninvited to family wedding

[R0SEMARY]

Sorry this is long as there’s a lot of background and I don’t want to drip feed. Names/ details changed of course.

I’ve been married for 20 years to John, we have teenage kids together and John has a daughter, Helen, from a previous marriage. Helen is in her 30s and so was a teenager when I married her father. And no, I was not the OW - they were divorced years before we met.

Our marriage has been very difficult for the last 10 years, mostly because of my husband’s many affairs (among other things) . I’ve tried to leave several times but it’s complicated and I’ve stayed for the sake of the children. It’s bearable because he works away a lot and we pretty much lead separate lives.

When Helen was a teenager she lived with us for half the week. This was hard for me, I will admit, because she had a lot of behavioural issues and was very challenging. I tolerated a lot of verbal abuse and inappropriate behaviour as I knew she was troubled and unhappy. She was occasionally physically aggressive towards me, especially when I was pregnant.

After she left home things got better of course and during her 20s and 30s we have got on OK. She lives at the other end of the country with her girlfriend so we only meet up a few times a year but keep in touch by phone, what’s app, zoom etc .

They are getting married this autumn, postponed from last year. We are all involved - my teenagers are bridesmaids / ushers - it’s been years in the planning. Naturally I have my Step MOB outfit and I’ve arranged ( booked and paid for ) a week’s holiday for us all around the event, as it’s a 9 hour drive away.

However my husband has always struggled with Helen’s sexuality. He disliked her last girlfriend and really hates her current fiancée ( says she’s fat and ugly ) but I’ve always tried to smooth things over and persuade him to keep on good terms with them both. He originally didn’t want anything to do with the wedding, partly because he hates her girlfriend and partly because he has an issue with same sex relationships in general. He still thinks it’s a phase that Helen will grow out of ( sorry I know that’s offensive ).

However I talked him round and made all the arrangements so he can’t say it’s too much hassle. He didn’t even want to walk her down the aisle but I persuaded him to suggest instead that she ask her mum as they are closer.

Then tonight, out of the blue, Helen phoned me to say that she doesn’t want me at her wedding any longer but she still wants my husband and children to attend.

I was absolutely gobsmacked. We’ve been talking about this wedding for three years, I’ve helped her choose bridesmaids dresses, flowers, menu etc (at her request). She wouldn’t say why she was doing this.

There’s been no arguments or falling out of any kind - all recent conversions have been about the wedding, her work, her cats etc.

Of course I asked her father what was going on and after a long conversation he admitted that he has been lying to Helen about me for years. Basically all the negative and nasty things he has been saying to me about her, he has told her that I said them, not him.

I am so shocked. Ever since I’ve known him he’s been complaining to me about her. About her refusing to attend school as a teenager, about her self harming ( which he said was just attention seeking ), her lies and stealing, her sexuality, career choices, her dropping out of university, cheating on her previous partner, her character, her lack of religion ( he is from a conservative religious background and raised her in it ).

I’ve spent years listening to him talk about her . So often I’ve defended her and tried to get him to be a little more open minded about her beliefs and lifestyle. Persuaded him to be polite to her partners and talked about their good points. Made the effort to keep in touch, sending gifts and cards etc.

Don’t get me wrong, some of what he complains about is right and I’ve agreed with him . But I’ve never said it to anyone except him and I assumed that what we said was between us. It never crossed my mind that he was telling her anything that we discussed. It’s one of the few things I thought we were united on - that we support each other in dealing with her. Even during her adult life there’s been a lot of drama and I’ve always supported him.

And now I discover he has been undermining me to her for all these years. I’ve worked so hard to try to keep things friendly and to keep open the lines of communication and he’s been working against me behind my back.

It’s not that I thought DH loved me - I’m not under any illusion about that. He only stays because he likes the domestic servicing and he doesn’t have to pay child support or parent his children.

But I just don’t understand why he would tell all these lies for years. Why would anyone do that ? I’m just so shocked I don’t know what to think or what to do.

Maybe he has realised that the apple hasnt fallen far from the tree with Helen. He has taught his padawan well, without meaning to.

@BRB2021 I totally agree. He's probably shitting himself now that he realises he actually has zero control over her because she's exactly the same as him.

@R0SEMARY

He says the ‘master manipulator’ comment quite often, usually when he’s been caught out and his manipulations have been exposed.

I’ve been here on MN a long time so I know to listen when someone tells you who they are.

Ha ha ha!

He can’t be much of a master ANYTHING if he says this so often.... when it’s because he’s been caught out!

A half decent manipulator WOULDNT get caught out
In the first place

What a narcissistic prick!

[quote lobsteroll]@BRB2021 I totally agree. He's probably shitting himself now that he realises he actually has zero control over her because she's exactly the same as him. [/quote]
Exactly this.

I do think he was scared that she would fall out with him for months and not talk to him. And of course part of him enjoyed the fact that she was going to be devastated, so deeply hurt at what he had said and done. Yet not able to cut ties completely because of what’s in it for her.

Because it reinforces the power and control he has. He knows he can treat people like shit but they can’t fall out with him because he holds the purse strings.

I thought she would be very upset and hurt - I guess because I still believed that she was a normal human being with feelings. And I suppose I was projecting my own feelings onto her - I was devastated by this revelation - his behaviour seemed inexplicably nasty and downright cruel.

I did however think she would forgive him in time, if he genuinely apologised and tried to work on his issues and do better.

( Honestly what a fool I was! I can see now that I hadn’t the faintest clue what was going on.)

Neither of us expected that she would shrug her shoulder and say “Whatever. Anyway back to me and what I want”.

@R0SEMARY
I thought she would be very upset and hurt - I guess because I still believed that she was a normal human being with feelings.

She is upset and hurt. And consequently so, so angry. But (because of her personality and her disordered thinking) she's directing that anger at you, not him. Because it's safer. He, after all being the master manipulator and the holder of the purse strings, might well come out on top. That's a risk. But you're not going to come out on top as she sees it. You can safely be the person who gets all her shit.

@R0SEMARY

I don't know if you saw my earlier post about this but just wondering, when you said she was diagnosed with BPD, did you mean Bi-polar disorder or Borderline Personality Disorder?

Sorry @FantasticButtocks. She told us she was diagnosed with Bi polar disorder but that diagnosis doesn't seem to fit and we think she has borderline personality disorder.

I know that everyone presents differently but a close friend has Bi Polar disorder and her issues are nothing like Helen’s, in nature or scale.

From the links that you and others have kindly sent me, it seems that NPD is often incorrectly diagnosed in women as borderline personality disorder.

Does NPD mean Narcistic Personality Disorder?

If so, I doubt anyone will ever admit that is their diagnosis, so you may never get the truth (yet again) of what she has been diagnosed with- she may well have been diagnosed correctly, but you'd never know

Honestly her behaviour is too cold and calculated to be Borderline!!! I truly think she has NPD.

Do you not think he's doing this to your children as well?

Or how they feel about having a father who takes pride in being a master manipulator??

Why did he forward that horrible email..

Helen is the least of your problems she lives 100s miles away and you never have to see her again ..

But you seem to be filling your headspace with her ...not the nightmare in your own home..

I feel for your kids having to live with someone sho doesn't give a shot about them or their mum...

[quote hannayeah]@R0SEMARY

Have you explained to your children that she has a personality disorder diagnosis?

I think you should consider it if they do not know. I believe it could be helpful to them.[/quote]
You could simply say "from the way she behaves she might have a personality disorder, but I don't know" (non-committal)

Or, "your dad said she might have a PD, but I'm not sure if that's true" (I'd probably avoid this one, as if they ever ask your H, he may deny it)

Or, "I'd be cautious with her as she behaves in a very strange way, I'm not sure why" (Probably best)

She certainly is very VERY cold and calculating. We’ve had two very difficult and tragic family bereavements and Helen’s behaviour around the time of both of them was unbelievably cold and self centred, with no regard for others who were closer to the ones who had died.

At one, she was asked to read something - let’s call it Text A. This was something that was significant, not just a random piece of writing . Helen said that she would prefer to read Text B ( something she liked that was not congruent with the beliefs of the one who had died or the family ). Family said no, its Text A, no discussion.

She got up at the funeral and said “ I’ve been asked to read Text A. But before I do that, I want to read Text B as my personal tribute to the one who has died”. Which she did.

At another funeral - In our culture ( as in most ), you show respect to those who are more immediate family. For example , if your second cousin dies, you give your condolences to her parents and siblings. If you were very close and you are upset, you seek comfort from your other friends/ partner / parents.

You don’t go to the funeral, sit in the front row ( reserved for immediate family ), make a loud fuss when asked to move, sit and cry loudly though the funeral and then throw yourself into the arms of her bereaved parents, shouting hysterically “ You don’t understand what this is like me for, I loved her as a sister, she was everything to me “ .

After that she was actually told not to attend another funeral ( by the next of kin) but she turned up anyway and there was a big scene.

Of course Helen says it’s because they are hateful bigots.

BTW I’ve changed some details out of respect for the families.

Wow! She may well have some mental health, narcissistic or other issues but, at rock bottom, she's also just evil. 🌹

Disgusting and treacherous behaviour from your husband. What a hypocrite he is! What a slap in the face for you after all you have done for the pair of them. If you do nothing else, step back from his relationship with Helen. Don’t facilitate their relationship any longer. Without all your efforts they will probably see each other’s true colors very quickly indeed. And I hope you will spare yourself all the emotional cost and energy of any repercussions.

The funeral story was appalling. That would have been enough for me to cut her out of my life a long time ago. Making someone else's funeral all about her is unforgivable for me. The last goodbye to a loved one tainted by her ridiculous antics is not something I could ever forgive.

I don't have words. She sounds completely devoid of emotion and thought for anyone but herself. Her future wife is in for a rude awakening, I'd think. Unbelievably callous.

Oh the funeral behavior is awful. I went to the funeral of my dad's great aunt by marriage about 8 years ago. My friend had just died of breast cancer with a two year old and at the funeral I started crying uncontrollably. A few of those second cousins and their children saw me and I was so mortified. I never got the chance to explain as obviously it would have been even weirder to say ''I wasn't crying because of your mother!''. Omg I still cringe!

I suppose when you think about it, it makes logical sense that she wouldn't be annoyed with her father. I mean, he wasn't upset was he? It would be a waste of her time as she needs to feed on pain and confusion. He doesn't have the empathy for the right kind of upset, he would just make it all about him, either angry that someone has done him wrong or martyred (which tbh is just anger that someone has done you wrong disguised as upset).

@BlackAmericanoNoSugar

I suppose when you think about it, it makes logical sense that she wouldn't be annoyed with her father. I mean, he wasn't upset was he? It would be a waste of her time as she needs to feed on pain and confusion. He doesn't have the empathy for the right kind of upset, he would just make it all about him, either angry that someone has done him wrong or martyred (which tbh is just anger that someone has done you wrong disguised as upset).

That’s interesting @BlackAmericanoNoSugar. John wasn’t upset at all, just slightly embarrassed and nervous. Helen was irritated and clearly exasperated as the conversion wasn’t going how she planned - she wanted to make it all about telling me how evil I was.

Meanwhile and I was sitting back and saying “ This isn’t about me, it’s all about what your father has to say, please listen to him “. I mean I literally sat back from screen so she couldn’t even see me.

She got annoyed at him John talking and interrupted him saying “ yes yes fine but that’s all in the past now”.

She did, however, notice that John had never used the word “ Sorry “ and asked him if he was sorry. He squeezed out the most feeble and least genuine sorry you have ever heard in your life.

So no, he had not a shed of genuine emotion at all. Helen was just annoyed at not getting to do all the talking.

So she just went back to saying how everything was my fault. Even the things that I never did or said - indeed she has just heard her father saying that he has lied about it all. It was still my fault.

Rinse and repeat.

So yes, the only pain and confusion was coming from me. Now I can see why she needs me.

Emotional vampire wanting to suck you dry

@Kelly345

The funeral story was appalling. That would have been enough for me to cut her out of my life a long time ago. Making someone else's funeral all about her is unforgivable for me. The last goodbye to a loved one tainted by her ridiculous antics is not something I could ever forgive.

That was actually two different funerals, several years apart and different sides of the family.

But yes she does like to make everything about her.

@RandomMess

Emotional vampire wanting to suck you dry

This is very hard to get my head around. I find it very difficult if someone is upset, even if I don’t know then and I’m not the cause of the upset. So I cant really understand how someone enjoys hurting others and watching them be distressed.

I know the videos that @Number3BigCupOfTea linked to talked about the person “equalising the score and balancing the Ledger”. But I’d need to really REALLY hate someone to want to hurt them that much, I mean they would need to do something really big like get me fired from my job and lose my house or abuse one of my kids.

I can’t imagine hating someone that much because they didn’t beg me hard enough to come and visit them just after they had given birth (difficult birth, C section, baby with health problems ) . That was one of my many crimes apparently.

Life must be very stressful to be filled with that much hate for such minor slights. You’d use up all your energy hating randomers.

I think what you need to get your head around is that she is NOTHING like you and you cannot ever understand because she is devoid of the usual range of emotions.

Sociopath, psychopath, narcissist.

Doesn't matter which she is, just focus on the future without these awful people in it.

What were your parents like? It worries me that you had been duped by your H for so long, was this a role you were trained for in your childhood.

Please get some therapy ASAP to help you come to terms with this.

@FantasticButtocks - you are right, the initials can be confusing, but since there was mention of a mood disorder and BPD it is likely to be Borderline, since Bipolar is a mood disorder. I think a lot of Borderline people end up with or are given the bipolar diagnosis first because their behaviour swings so much that it looks like mood disorder. Whatever the reason, agree with you that they will continue because this is their comfort zone. Horrible for OP and her dc to deal with.