Dating Thread 200 - Spring is in the Air, Ghosters Beware

[cravingthelook]

The Rules:

1. The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating.
2. Develop a thick skin.
3. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
4. It's all BS until it actually happens.
5. Trust your gut instinct.
6. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
7. Know your worth.
8. If it's not fun, stop.
9. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread. 11. Treat others as you'd like to be treated 12. Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with 13. The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future 14. OLD can get very time consuming. Keep doing other activities you enjoy.

Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item

I think there's a fine line between oversharing and reflecting, and personally I don't mind explaining why my marriage ended. If anything, it just shows that I do not tolerate cheats rather than exposing a vulnerability. Abuse is something I keep much much more private though and only explore this with my counsellor.
I like to understand human relationships though and it particularly interests me what lessons people take from their situations. I'm interested in personal growth and maturity so it'd be a conversation I'd be keen to have @HairyArsedMan from an "assessing compatibility" standpoint as well as for my own curiosity!

when talking about expectations from dating, it's worth bringing in such things in so far as they reflect what you've learned about yourself and what you want?

I suppose it depends what it is? Simple things like - I expect people to be honest, trustworthy, kind, loyal - I just don't think you should have to say and, anyway, if someone is not those things they're not going to declare it and rule themselves out, people who are not those things have learnt that they need to pretend to be those things anyway.

And there's no "gotcha" here - it's not like they cheat on you and excuse it by saying you never said they shouldn't. It's your boundary, you get to make the call at that stage whether you laid those cards on the table or not.

I think it's better to judge someone slowly, by their behaviour with you and with others, how they refer to their interactions with other people. Pay close attention. Bow out when you spot behaviours you are not happy with.

I think discussions should be more about whether you like beach or city holidays.....etc.

Obviously you do need the big "is this a hook up or are we both on the same page about taking this forward" conversation.

@HairyArsedMan that is true, and you're right - at least I managed to enjoy a date with someone who made me feel that way. It's just a shame it may take another year or two to find the next one. But if I don't bounce back, then I'll never meet them.

It's a tough one with barriers. I think you can pick up little signs, but in my case I usually ignore them - after all, why would I walk away from something that's fun and could go somewhere just because of the way they said something, or a subtle reaction to something I said or did.

I think I also assume people will feel similarly to me, and not really have too many barriers. I've been lucky in that all my previous relationships have ended reasonably amicably, and I've never gone through a tough divorce, or been in an abusive relationship. So I'm still relatively fresh-faced and willing to give myself to someone, and I don't really understand it when someone feels they can't commit even if we get on well, and have a good time together.

I'm not sure some people even know themselves what they want, or how they will react if things develop.

When do we all think the 'hook up or serious' convo should happen? I'm not sure if i've 'missed the boat' sort of

@LongtimelurkerL

When do we all think the 'hook up or serious' convo should happen? I'm not sure if i've 'missed the boat' sort of

Isn't it on your profile, assuming it's an OLD meeting?

Anyway, I tend to have that discussion date two or three.

@VanGoghsDog

I agree it’s kind of a longer term holistic approach that’s best, observing behaviour especially in difficult situations ?

Easier said than done sometimes when we’re working out how to allocate time!

The trouble with apps is we’re making judgements very quickly (faster than natural pace) about people who are essentially complete strangers.

My family relations weren’t good base points for healthy relationships so I had to learn from scratch

but as an adult the healthiest friendships I’ve had have been ones where if I had to make “an initial snap judgement” I would have said no. Or they aren’t great/smooth on messaging. But over time they’ve proved very supportive and productive.

I also tend to be very reticent to disclose trauma or abuse issues early on - it’s often a green light for very manipulative people and predators.

I have the 'hookup, serious or somewhere in between' chat before I meet someone. I want to know what they want prior to going in. That said I know people aren't always honest, so this is not a fail proof approach.

I’ve come off apps after about ...ooh, three-four days?

There were matches, but it’s really just such an intense head f**k . I guess as I’m more comfortable in myself as I age I don’t want to go out/meet just for the sake of it.

It gives such a negative view of men in a lot of ways (not you thread boys of course!)

I’ve got MrPM on WhatsApp though he said yesterday he’s snowed under with work so will see how that progresses

maybe send him a nice scenic photo in a couple weeks if I’ve not heard from him by then . Quality not quantity! If we delay a bit lockdown will be lifted somewhat so could have a Nice Proper Date for the first meet (yes I am overinvesting! But he’s like my perfect man on paper and I rarely say that!)

MrC is only in town for another couple weeks he said he got an extra Xmas present delivered late for me (I messaged him and he mentioned it so he wasn’t just fishing to meet)

So whilst of course I’m curious I think I should wait till he’s back from his next trip in June to meet as mates

(one of the thread guys warned me to be mindful about how much time he actually was away and I’m grateful for that)

@VanGoghsDog yes it is and on his too - but I still think it's probably wise to verbalize it - all the walking around in parks has messed up my normal pattern as yes i'd typically say it very early on - exactly @cravingthelook usually I do too but covid has messed up the pattern

Personally I feel the 'hook up/serious' conversation is tricky because they might change their mind. I was aiming, at most for a hook up, but after a few months of messages, and a few weeks of dating, we're both committed to trying for a serious relationship. But could go the other way too if the person's lifestyle etc doesn't fit, so I like to check in quite often with updates so we know we're on the same page - luckily Mr M and I both enjoy an open and frankness so it's easy to see which direction we're heading.

Also, I don't rule any conversation out at any stage of the dating/relationship process. I'd too like to know what I'm getting myself in for if there were risks or potential major issues to contend with and owe it to someone to warn them my actions/subconscious cues may be as a result of previous trauma and not a reflection of my feelings towards them.

@LongtimelurkerL As soon as you feel like you want to progress things with someone and probably best before you sleep together.

On the last thread I posted a list of questions which I think should be asked at the start of every relationship, I'll see if I can find it and post again.

I think someone ised those ideas to habe just such a chat with their iron.

@frankiefirstyear yeah i'm keen to get into the habit of a regular check in - it's not something i've done before but it seems mature and the right thing to do.

Yeah I think you posted it for me @SortingItOut - i've used some of them, I just struggle with the balance between coming across very intense and also just saying things how they are - I know rule whatever but if you saw someone once a week and everytime you saw them they wanted some big intense talk about what you were and what the relationship was etc that would be slightly offputting as well - surely there's a balance?

@LongtimelurkerL I've just gone back and the questions I posted (copy and paste below) were in response to you asking about when to have the chat.
I thought you had a conversation about some of the questions a few weeks ago?
Did you not cover everything you wanted to?

My previous post:
Nowadays the questions you meed to ask to establish things are IMHO:

1. Are you on the apps? You may need to expand on this as he may think having a profile but not logging in means he is off it. Also is his profile hidden or deleted?

1. Is he multi dating? Not multi dating doesnt mean you are boyfriend/girlfriend, it just means he isnt dating others?

Does he envisage he wants to multidate now or in the future?

1. Are you exclusive? This is different to the boyfriend/girlfriend question. Is he chatting/flirting/sexting/emotionally or physically intimate with anyone else?

Some people think exclusive is sexual exclusivity but I think sexting others is not an exclusive behaviour.

1. What are you? Casually dating? Going with the flow? Boyfriend/girlfriend?

Lots in between all those too.

1. For further down the line....what do you think is cheating? Years ago I never thought I'd have this conversation with someone but after my husband emotionally cheated I felt I should and so Mr K and I had the chat once we'd had the exclusive and boyfriend/girlfriend chat. It was important for me (and him actually) that we had similar views on what constituted cheating and what was acceptable behaviour.

Think about what you want now and in the future and your answers to those questions and then ask him.
If you're intimate already then questions 1 -3 are perfectly fine to ask for now.

Question 4 can come later or if 1 - 3 go well. Personally i wouldnt ask question 4 for another month as really you've only neen dating 2.5 weeks.

Also dont give all your spare time over to meeting him, you need your own time too.
Just look at others on here recently who either needed time themselves or their partners did and that can cause issues later down the line when contact reduces.

@LongtimelurkerL I think you and I are seeing our irons the same amount of time with the same limited meet ups. Although I see mine less often -I haven’t seen him for over 2 weeks and it may be the weekend after next before we meet up again. So having intense discussions every time is not ideal!

This thread is always giving me food for thought!
I’m so inexperienced in relationships (basically married my first boyfriend 🙄) and dating that I tend to be way invested before I come up for air and start to examine things
I’m at that stage with Mr TG and my brain is fried, trying to guess his intentions while not being very clear about my own!
Things with him are very slow, partially because of the current shitty pandemic situation, his living arrangements and partially because I feel he’s putting the brakes on or pulling back altogether.

I know a conversation needs to happen but it will have to be over text which is not ideal. I’m 3 months in touch and have never had the what are you looking for conversation! I know I’m stupid!

@frankiefirstyear you seem to have such a healthy handle on things, I’m very envious 😊

@SortingItOut yeah I did 1-3 when it first came up. Just wondering about the boyfriend/girlfriend one now.

@mayzee yeah since Nov here - was once every two weeks ish when just walking but now 2/3 times a week since end of Jan (do not very long!) - why is it always the woman who needs to have these convos??? I wish they’d bring it up

@VanGoghsDog I suppose what I'm talking is expectations about the dating process rather than personal virtues. So stuff like 'hey, I prefer to gradually get to know someone' or 'I need a spark' and the stuff in between. And maybe coupling this with 'I've come to realise these things because ...' - otherwise it comes across as somewhat my way or the highway and like @Heartbeats0708 says it's establishing some curiosity about someone's life outside of the material stuff.

@TheCatWithTheHat has it right about many not being sure what they want - and I'm not going to judge people on that or have it as an expectation. It's just useful to know that's where they're coming from and perhaps why, so that you don't think you're dealing with someone that is inherently out to confuse you. It ties in with @ThisTooShallBeFantastic's post about no one person being wholly right for you and finding redeeming or attractive parts and accepting that about them.

@Mayzee thank you so much, what a lovely thing to say 🥰

In my experience, the conversation doesn't really make much difference. Miss H asked me what I was looking for before we first met, although she didn't say anything when I asked the same question. In hindsight that may have been because she didn't want the same as me, and just didn't want to discuss it for whatever reason, or she didn't actually know.

Yet I never had that conversation with my last long term partner - if we had done we'd probably have said it was just going to be a one night thing - yet we ended up being together for almost 8 years.

Not really on the apps at the moment for one reason and another (@cat exhaustion deffo being one) but had a couple of very slow burn chats on the go. Got on the topic of swapping numbers with one and people expecting you to respond quickly if they knew were online. Pointed out this partly could be about people being paranoid about being ghosted and that I wouldn't be doing any ghosting and then .... she ghosted me. Wondered if I came across as a bit uptight.

@bangheadhere44 how's things going with the iron that was really full on?

@bangheadhere40 I meant!

@DudeFromThatLondon

Meh, people ghost/disappear early on for such random reasons

no-one and nothing’s real till you’ve got to the meeting stage, maybe a bit further along?

So I wouldn’t worry too much it’s something you’ve done or said.

I also agree in general we’re quite conditioned from online apps to feel we need the constant early contact or the other person has disappeared on us!

Like I got the attached from MrPM (assume he meant tired not “titted”) and instantly felt a bit 🤔.

Like it was a brush-off/rejection?

Even though he sent two very nice thoughtful messages just before and contacted me first on tinder etc. And he’s conveying he will be busy which is useful information.

(This is very unusual for me this early on - but I really DO want to meet this guy #overinvested)

But at the end of the day I can’t control things so I just need to focus on what I can control which is my day to day life, keeping fit so I’m reasonably attractive and confident and in a good place overall in my life if I do get to a date etc?

@SpringlikeBunk, that's quite a strange use of language. Have you spoken to Mr PM in person yet ?

@SpringlikeBunk. Echoing @Onesmallstep67- I got catfish vibes from that, unless mr PM is foreign ..