Dating Thread 200 - Spring is in the Air, Ghosters Beware

[cravingthelook]

The Rules:

1. The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating.
2. Develop a thick skin.
3. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
4. It's all BS until it actually happens.
5. Trust your gut instinct.
6. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
7. Know your worth.
8. If it's not fun, stop.
9. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread. 11. Treat others as you'd like to be treated 12. Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with 13. The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future 14. OLD can get very time consuming. Keep doing other activities you enjoy.

Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item

I'm undecided on MrKeen and your iron @bangheadhere40 though it'd be a tentative red flag for me. It's all just different communication styles I suppose. But the more intense overexcited messages would put me off for sure, it's a bit future fakey to me.
Still in touch with my ex iron and I'm not sure how good it is for either of us, me especially. I'm questioning if I did the right thing.

I've noticed a definite uptick in new profiles and increased messages in the OLD world in the last week since Boris's announcement, people are getting hopeful I think. None of the profiles have got me excited though.

Still talking to MrPosh and we seem to exchange a good amount of texting now - not too much, or too little. I had an iron last year (who i'll call MrBlokeyBanter) who texted all day and all night and wanted to have 4 hour video calls twice a week - it was all too much and I got fed up of my phone pinging in the end!

MrPosh has mentioned actually meeting up soon - due to distance/childcare I'm very limited to where and when I can meet, realistically we have to wait until rules allow travel outside local area, but hopeful we can now arrange for a coffee or picnic in a park in the not too distant future. I'm not keen on a walking date, I like to be able to sit, talk and look at one another, I get far too out of breath and sweaty walking and talking!

@TheCatWithTheHat

Saw this and thought of you

Hello again thread! I'm popping back with a name change to ask you all for some more amazing advice. You were great when I dipped my toe back into dating after leaving a coercive controlling marriage/relationship of 20 years.

Well, that was 18 months ago. Since then, pandemic included, I've been dating the lovely Mr N. Not always been able to see each other, but since I was vaccinated we've started again and he's staying over when ex has the kids.

Thing is, ex and kids don't know about Mr N. But ex has a habit of "dropping by" on his weekends. This weekend was awful with 3 visits from him and kids. While Mr N was here. Caused our first proper argument because I haven't told them about him, we don't want them to find out this way etc. I've got really complex thoughts about this whole thing.

Do I want to tell my kids about him? Does that mean introducing them to each other? I don't want a step family set up, nor does Mr N. Why am I so reluctant to tall then? I'm a bit scared of my ex, but maybe that's an excuse.

I'm not in love with Mr N. I really enjoy his company, I look forward to seeing him, miss him, great sex, loads of shared interests but no visceral feeling of love. I don't think. I'm autistic and that can make things harder to work out.

Anyway, what an essay. Help, please! All and any advice welcome.

I'm terrible in that I feel rude if I don't message if I haven't sent the bow out message but my irons never feel rude so why should I

They might feel rude but be OK with feeling rude. You don't owe them anything, if you stop messaging without bowing out, and they don't message either, either you're both rude or neither of you is rude, so it's evens!

Saw MrWG but feel like I forced it a bit. I met a friend for a walk in his area and popped in for tea, he had something on at four thirty so I left then, and told him he now can't see me as bubble due to me being mum's bubble from 12th. So hopefully that will focus his mind on making better use of our time.
I chatted to friend about it, she knows him, and she reminded me that not everyone texts all the the. I think we forget because OLD relationships are all text/app based so we sort of get conditioned to think that frequent text comms is the norm.

@HosannainExcelSheets what happened when the ex and kids dropped by? Did Mr N hide or something? I assume the argument it caused was after the others had gone? There are many ways to have a relationship with someone with kids, step family set up is just one idea, but not necessarily to everyone's taste. I think I'd try to go for an honest note making session on your own first, then try for a discussion with Mr N and see where he's at in terms of expectation and plans.
I am afraid of my ex so I can understand it does make things difficult, but if you can be honest with Mr N about the fears then I'd hope that would help you to communicate and find some understanding.

@HosannainExcelSheets How old are your children?
You could keep it light and say you've got a new friend (if they are young) or tell them you are dating (if older) but that you'll only see him when they are not with you.

Are you worried about your ex's reaction?
I was the same as frankie, worried what my ex would think so I always met away from my house in case he drove past.
Then I stopped worrying, let Mr K start staying over occasionally and my ex slashed his trye🤬
At that point Mr K and I were only FWB and I told my ex I was just hanging out with someone but he didn't believe me.
Luckily despite my ex stalking and harassing me and causing loads of drama Mr K stayed around.

What are the kids and the ex popping in for?
Is it life or death stuff or just because they can?
I'd be making it clear that everything they need for their dad's needs to be taken with them when they go and encourage them to stay away as its time with their dad otherwise you're not getting a break.

I have the same issue. I’m not ready to tell the kids I’m seeing someone, ex went psycho last year at the thoughts of me with someone and although he is better mentally, and I’m not afraid of him as such, he will make things difficult.
Mr TG has come here a few times and the first couple I was so nervous the kids would come back for something.
If it happens, I think I’ll just tell them I’m seeing someone but they won’t be meeting him as sorting suggested.
I definitely don’t want them to meet anyone I’m seeing for a very long time.

Thank you for the comments so far. Kids are at an age where they won't be fobbed of with "friend" but don't really get dating. Two tweens and a younger DC. One is diagnosed autistic, another one probably is.

I have told Mr N that a lot of the issues are driven by fear and still not really being clear of the conditioning from 20 years of controlling behaviour. But he made the point that the situation will never change if I don't choose to change it. I think he gets that it's hard, but not really how conflicting everything is. He doesn't have kids.

He didn't exactly hide, because the way our house is they just didn't cross paths. But that's not ok with either of us. Especially because they came over several times to just get stuff. Nothing important, just on a whim. Or because they were just passing.

I think I see telling my DC as quite a big thing, and meaning that I'm essentially (at least semi) permanently committing to the relationship. But that's not really what I'm ready for. I don't think.

@sortingitout I'm sorry to hear about your ex. Mine isn't the tyre slashing kind, but we are still not fully divorced and he will drag things out and make life difficult.

@HosannainExcelSheets my kids are now young adults so they understand relationships.
I had no plans to introduce them to anyone but once my daughter was with me 24/7 I had no choice but for her to meet Mr K.

I never would have guessed my ex would do that but i guess realising your wife hsd moved on triggered something (even though it was nearly 2 years seperated)

I agree with you about not telling the children, its not for Mr N to tell you how to behave. Its difficult for other people to understand if they've not been through it.

We all need to move on eventually but you do that in your own time and possibly with counselling.

Could you stay at Mr N's sometimes instead?

@HosannainExcelSheets

I think I understand, I have no intention of telling my kids or ex about dating. I'd need to be in a relationship and pretty sure about it before I did. My kids are 21 and 9.

I would sit down and explain to your iron, that you'd rather not unsettle the kids until you are at a commitment stage.

I'd also tell the ex, that when he's looking after him they are his, explain to the kids that they need to take what they need, as this makes the custody schedule fair that you both get quality time.

In other news, Mr HT is slightly more chatty, just a tiny bit slightly flirty. No plans to meet and no 'conversation' we do both still have the kids though.
I've got a number of other chats. I'm trying to chat to keep myself patient. I also am looking out for a diamond in the rough. Taking my time, eyes open for flags, not rushing it. If one shows up it's Mr HTs loss.

@cravingthelook @sortingitout thanks. It's good to hear someone else's point of view.

Part of my reluctance is driven by the pandemic. I'm not even meant to be seeing Mr N, legally speaking. My support bubble is my sister. Also that he's not really keen on children. And that I think I'm really emotionally unavailable and mostly in the relationship for quite functional reasons like sex and companionship.

Anyway, we definitely need to talk about it.

@HosannainExcelSheets Why does a man who is not keen on children want you to tell your own children about him?

Presumably he isnt in this relationship for the long haul if he doesn't like children but got involved with someone with children....

I think a lot of people who come out of marriages/relationships which weren't great are emotionally unavailable.
I'm not sure how you overcome that except with counselling.
I'm definitely emotionally unavailable, I've got barriers up so high nothing can get through, well I have lowered them about 1cm for Mr K!!
I dont know how I'll ever not be like this, I can't ever imagine telling Mr K I love him (17 mths together) or allowing myself to be vulnerable with him.
Too be fair he has also been hurt before and has some barriers up and hasn't said he loves me either.
I think we'll be about 70 and still haven't opened up or said I love you🤣

@HosannainExcelSheets it's a tricky one but it's your decision, go with what you feel is best for you and your DC without being swayed. Could it be that he's just not right for you and that's why you're reluctant to commit? The comfort of regular sex and companionship is lovely, but not necessarily love. His dislike of children would be a deal-breaker for me tbh.
@SortingItOut I can really relate to your last post. I know I am emotionally unavailable (that just autocorrected to unstable, about right 😂) and even counselling doesn't seem to help much. It's helped me to fix many other issues but I just can't seem to let anyone in. It worries me a little that I'll be like this forever.

@Heartbeats0708 @SortingItOut you're really making me think about this more clearly.

Mr N doesn't hate kids, he just doesn't actively like them. I think I find what he says confusing. Like saying he's fine with meeting then and he's talked to one on Facetime because they share a hobby. But then isn't very enthusiastic about kids ever and seems quite annoyed about how time consuming they are.

I think I just need to have a very frank talk about all my thoughts and see if there is any future in seeing beach other.

I definitely do not want any step parent type figure. My ex is hostile enough already.

@Heartbeats0708 I've not had counselling, I know I need it but it will be like opening pandora's box and I don't think I'm prepared for that.
On one hand I think its great to be emotionally unavailable/unstable😉 as you're protecting yourself but on the other hand its not quite right.

@HosannainExcelSheets Mr N doesnt have to be Mr Forever but he could be Mr Right Now if you are both on the same page about it.
Sometimes we all need a fun relationship that wont last but fills a need you have and if no one is getting hurt its fine.

Yes to emotionally unavailable people - it's hard if you've been in a tough relationship - what are some signs to look out for in other people?

@HosannainExcelSheets I think it's fine to recognise that you're not necessarily in it forever as long as you communicate that clearly from the off. Sometimes it works great, other times one or both gets hurt. Relationships are a risk at the end of the day.
@SortingItOut counselling is heavy going, but I turned to it when I had no other option and it's been surprisingly helpful for things I didn't even realise I needed help with. It's rare I leave a session feeling anything other than clearer and lighter for discussing what's going on with someone neutral that has a similar understanding of human behaviour. I like the protected/almost invincible feeling I have with being emotionally unavailable but it's wrecked what could've been a really good relationship for me. I think.

Interesting chat about emotional availability. I think I’m emotionally guarded and not one for letting my emotions out readily anyway - I’ve always been like that. Mr TG seems similar. I definitely have a wall and a cool detachment which is hard to overcome- only my kids see my loving side!
I don’t know if that’s the fallout of marriage breakups or just how you get when you get older and more jaded about everything

@LongtimelurkerL One of the signs is when you find yourself really into them

I agree with you @Mayzee there are some people where it's about repression/denial/compartmentalisation/fear of emotions and not feeling safe in yourself or with another in confronting them. It's so tough when it's yourself too. Imagine not trusting yourself with yourself. What's that all about ?

I've been reading and talking with people about trauma in childhood and one of the coping mechanisms that arises from that is slow processing of emotions. Really slow, usually within some displacement activity, to the extent that it does lead to this suppression of one's own emotional states. Imagine trying to have an expressive relationship with someone that operates in this way ... it has to inch forward as they use their processing mechanisms to deal with and come out with things. I think for such people, it's not really their fault and they are probably actually well disposed to having a relationship but they come with an emotional distance and all sorts of edges that have to be skirted around.

@HairyArsedMan @Mayzee those are really interesting comments. In my case I think we are both quite emotionally guarded and don't really want to "let anyone in" as it were.

We need to talk this all through. There's definitely been no mention of love be from my side, and I had joked about how hard it was to find a valentines card that didn't mention love. But at the same time we do talk about things we might do next year or even further into the future.

Hmm. Thanks all and lots to think through on my part.

I've just started parts work with my therapist. 😳🤯😬

I know it's needed and it is amazing how our trauma affects our behaviour often unconsciously.
Doesn't mean it's easy to do though.

@SortingItOut @Heartbeats0708 @cravingthelook I have been in counselling since last year when lockdown and my divorce started to drive me crazy and I felt I had no other option apart from full mental breakdown. It is up and down with me even though my therapist is great, I still have to work out the answers myself. I am getting better at boundaries (I literally had NONE) and articulating my needs but a lot of stuff is still gnarly. And attachment wise I seem to have gone from anxious to avoidant which may be two sides of the same coin. Both are about being terrified of getting hurt. But now I'm defensive rather than pathetic!

Spent the weekend with Mr G again. He has no such reservations, he patently adores me and tells me so. I have decided I like the sex and company so much I am ignoring his situation for now so I don't talk about it or encourage him to. This is childish and like disabling the warning light on your car rather than getting the engine looked at. But with work and divorce and practical house stuff and some other emotional crap I have going on, I don't feel I can deal with it all at once. I still see Mr Local and am feeling increasingly guilty about it. At the same time, I am tempted to go on the apps as I think neither has legs, long term. If I were a man I would be thinking badly of me by now...

Yesterday I actually had a match on Bumble who not only messaged (with something more than "hey, how are you?", but she replied to the reply. Hopefully therefore Miss E might be a prospect.