Fucking men!

[StoryOfMyFuckingLife]

I am 46. I'm about a stone overweight. I'm atractive enough but no one is going to offer me a modelling contract. I'm single. I'm always fucking single or just about to make myself single again.

In the past 5 years, I've dated two men. Both for less than a year and both I dumped for crimes against respect and decency.

In the past 5 years alone, I've lost a friendship group because one of the married men in it made a really obvious play for me, was far too attentive, giddy when I was nearby and i ended up withdrawing from the group because I didn't like it and it was, quite frankly, embarrassing. I didn't fall out with anyone because I did nothing wrong but friendships dwindled once i started avoiding group stuff because of it.

I've lost another close male friend (he was married and I was close to his wife too) because, after making a pass at me when she was out of the room on one occasion and me rejecting him, he later contacted me to tell me he was in love with me which means I've lost her too.

I could have lost another friend because her husband 'developed feelings' for me - he actually told her he'd fallen in love with me . Fortunately, she is the most amazing woman ever and told me at the time that he was an idiot but she couldn't bear to lose me as a friend. We worked really hard on saving our friendship. They worked things out and it's now like that blip never happened (fortunately).

I've moved on, i've made new friends... every time it happens, i move on and make new friends. And it just happens again.

I dated someone for a few months last year (the second of the two men). I met him through friends. So we have mutual friends/acquaintances in common. Three couples mainly although the wife of one doesn't socialise much with us and has her own friends.

Of the three men... two of the three have made it known for a while that, if I were interested, they would be too. They've both declared love

The third? Well I don't know him well. He's socially awkward, quiet and a bit irascible. And then, tonight, he messaged me to say he was sorry to hear that the his friend and I had split up (4 months ago!) He's never seemed particularly interested in getting to know me or talking to me so i was surprised at his sudden friendliness...

You know where this is going...

Just pisses me off and makes me feel really sad. I know that none of these men are actually interested in me. Of these four men, one I was seeing but he never thought I was good enough for him because I'm not 28 and hot. And the other three are in relationships telling me how attractive I am and how much they fancy me.

Of all the men who have declared love to me over the past 10 years, I haven't been in a relationship with any of them and none of them have been single.

It's just fucking shit.

What is fucking wrong with them??

I used to work with a divorced lady in her 50s roughly. She dressed casually/practically most of the time incidentally, if she dressed up it would've been relatively conservative.

She had a big circle through a particular industry/hobby. Sometimes the partners and husbands of couples she knows would be in her area for that industry/hobby and she would agree to have them stay in her home (v large inherited house, she rented some rooms out to lodgers too)/put them up/whatever.

She said she repeatedly had to fend off these mens' advances. "Affectionate" hugs and good nights always being escalated into advances. She had to repeatedly (sane man more than once during a visit fir example) turn then down - and try to do it in a way where she wouldn't be accused and ostracised later. I don't know if she just stopped putting them up at all, it would probably have been easier.

It seems like they simply could not conceive that as a fifty something single lady who'd been divorced for a while (she's good humoured, outgoing etc) would not be "grateful" for/up for a shag from them.given the opportunity.

Men constantly project their feelings and wants onto women; they cannot seem to grasp that most women just don't think.like them and aren't motivated in the way they are.

And whoever accused the OP of mutton dressed as lamb should fuck right off back to the dark ages, where they belong. Disgusting misogynist behaviour.

appalledandshocked perhaps it is the worry that we who are mutton are still tempting to men who will eat any old thing...

The fact that women are sentient beings, even us elder skater-dress-wearing types who might not entertain the possibility of being consumed (albeit, we're a bit chewy given our advanced age). Just because we don't want their disrespectful husbands doesn't dispense with our requirement to NOT wear anything that might incite any sort of desire for tough lamb.

It's tragic that this is so ingrained in some women. The abject fear they must be desperately hiding that some floozie - of any age - will swoop in and cart off their beloved property. Yuck.

I do think there is a thing with men thinking older single women are "desperate" for it.
Ime they get handsy or flirty but don't tend express love because they don't want it to get back to the wives.

@Silenceisgolden20

Do people still really use the term mutton when talking about women?

Misogynists do!

I think in general making decent trustworthy friends or finding new social groups is hard after a certain age

I’ve moved around a lot and I used to think that I “had” to immediately find a new circle of people.

A lot of social groups have their moments 70% of the time but are often really toxic/overdramatic/too much hassle otherwise.

Especially so for single women, with all the issues described by pps.

Some of the happiest people just seem to stick with work, doing their own thing, and maybe a sport or meditation or something like that?

Or as a single woman you can even use dating apps to find people to meet 1-1 for a coffee or something. Wear all the dresses you like at the coffee shop

Or if you do socialise keep it very light and private and don’t engage too much.

This is absolutely not your fault. These men are married FFS! They have no business declaring their love for you or any of that nonsense.

I am a man who (before lockdown anyway) socialise with some single people (ladies) and I can tell you in our group this has never been an issue.

The actual fuck?

Women asking another woman if she dresses provocatively and is over friendly?

Or judging what she's wearing?

How about holding attached men responsible for their actions?

Jesus wept.

OP, it's not you. I have the same issue. Probably my fault because of the ink and my absolute indifference to what anyone thinks. I'm not skinny, not beautiful and I don't care. I just am comfortable as I am at 43, I've been with my man for 7 years, fiercely loyal.

But attention levels are epic, strangers and people we know. I'm aware, I shut it down and don't engage. But I'm not going to change who I am. I like me.

I asked once, apparently it's my green eyes and constant sarcasm and ability to talk to anyone and maintain the ability to ignore absolute morons so exactly they may as well not exist.

True talent. Do you and eventually you'll find someone not threatened by that who will laugh too.

@WardrobeBlane

I think in general making decent trustworthy friends or finding new social groups is hard after a certain age

I’ve moved around a lot and I used to think that I “had” to immediately find a new circle of people.

A lot of social groups have their moments 70% of the time but are often really toxic/overdramatic/too much hassle otherwise.

Especially so for single women, with all the issues described by pps.

Some of the happiest people just seem to stick with work, doing their own thing, and maybe a sport or meditation or something like that?

Or as a single woman you can even use dating apps to find people to meet 1-1 for a coffee or something. Wear all the dresses you like at the coffee shop

Or if you do socialise keep it very light and private and don’t engage too much.

Wear al the dresses you like anyway. Socialise as much as you like anyway (post covid) Why as a single woman should that change. It's the man problem, not the women

If you want to try & avoid it happening then I would be very indifferent to the men, don't talk to them, be alone with them etc & don't respond too & block messages.
Yes it's annoying as you have to modify your behaviour but unfortunately that's life.

There was a thread VERY similar to this several months ago ? Was it you @StoryOfMyFuckingLife?

I wouldn't give up finding friendships as I would say you've had a very unlucky streak with so many from the same circle. Most only have 1 or 2 bad apples.

‘bad apples’

Harassing and intimidating men, you mean?

No I was generalising so meant men who were corrupt. That could be a displayed in a number of ways not just intimidation or harassment.

@MrsWindass

There was a thread VERY similar to this several months ago ? Was it you *@StoryOfMyFuckingLife*?

I was going to say the same thing and was coming to the conclusion that live music was the problem, but then I saw that OP has confirmed it was her last time as well.

You can’t control the men’s behaviour, as much as you’d like to.
You can change your own behaviour, even though it sounds like victim blaming to suggest it.

You could avoid the situations where this is happening.
You could find an appropriate phrase to preempt the situation.
You could find an appropriate phrase to shut down these approaches in a way that doesn’t damage your friendship with the wife.
You could look at your behaviour to see if there is anything that you could change. Or ask a friend if they have noticed anything.

I have a single friend who is fairly ordinary so is seen as approachable. She has some interests that tend to have more men interested in them, like football, so is easy for men to speak to. She says she is just being friendly to men but actually gives off quite desperate vibes, flirty signals and is more enthusiastic when talking to men compared to when she talks to women. No one has pointed this out to her but it does attract married men. Have you asked a friend if it looks like you are behaving differently with the men?

Ok. Lots of posts saying similar things so I won't respond to people individually.

Yes, I did post before. Its continued.

After the last thread, I set up group chats with most of the couples I'm in contact with regularly. Tbh, I don't message many of the men anyway and never often but I make sure I never do now with the exception of one where I don't really know his partner other than to say hello to. However, I still feel this is unnecessary. I should be able to message my friends without them hitting on me whether their wife is policing our communications or not. In every case, I'd have been happy for their wives to read the messages anyway because everything was fine until it wasn't. I don't engage in flirting with attached men.

I don't really care if a stranger wants to try and knock me down a peg or two by referring to me (indirectly or otherwise) with a misogynistic slur. I really can't see how anyone wearing 200 denier tights,14 hole DMs, an almost knee length jersey dress and a cardigan could ever be described as 'mutton' 😆

The man who messaged me last night is someone I saw twice last year - January before lockdown1 and October between lockdowns. I'd barely said more than hello and goodbye to him before October when I sat next to him around a table and we spoke as part of a group conversation. Being a good girl and following MN rules, I don't have his number, I'm primarily friends with his wife and I've had no other communication with him whatsoever. I've probably only net him half a dozen times in total but I accepted a fb friend request from him as everyone else is friends on there and it seemed weird not to. His contact was completely out of the blue.

It isnt only something I've experienced in this group I've had about 4 or 5 different groups over the past few years with different hobbies and social activities and being forced to drop hobbies (one was a predominantly female community choir ffs) because of this happening.

It doesn't seem worth trying to find new friends, hobbies or social groups because it ends up being same shit, different day so I just make the best of it.

I don't engage. I don't respond positively, or giggle or ask what they mean or engage in any coquetishness. I'm not flattered or appreciative. I try ignoring that element of the message and respond to something more neutral if they take the hint (for now) great. If not, I'll shut it down. Which is what I did last night. Sometimes I shut it down directly by washing what their wife would think or telling them I didn't expect that of them and not to be a dick. Sometimes I just block them. It depends on the dynamics and context.

I have made several comments on many occasions to the effect that I'm not interested in married men and that I'm happy single.

And I feel I must reiterate that none of the wives have a problem with me being friends with their husbands, many of whom have other female friends. It would be more weird for me to be the only one who refused to engage in these normal communications. I'm not seen as a threat and I'm trusted. Because I'm trustworthy and loyal.

I'm no more accountable for these men's actions than I am anyone else's.

Fair dos but name the behaviour instead of covering it with a simpering phrase. You could have said corrupt in your post. This is all part and parcel of the same issue, we are frightened to say what we really feel and cover it in language that removes the severity of the behaviour.

@pocketwarm what do you think the definition of bad apples is?

I'm absolutely not afraid of saying or calling out any behaviour.

Where I come from being referred to as a bad apple is not coy in any way. It literally means you're rotten & I was bought up to stay away from those types! 🤣

However, I still feel this is unnecessary. I should be able to message my friends without them hitting on me whether their wife is policing our communications or not

I don't understand this bit. If the husbands of your friends are hitting on you then those men are not your friends?

I'd forgotten about this until IsIgnoranceBliss suggested it! But I have previously asked a friend (who also invited her husband to join the conversation) if she could think of any reason why. I trust her to be honest. I was primarily moaning about the fact that I couldn't make relationship stick. I've just looked back through my messages and found the conversation.

They both said that I'm quite 'cool'. And that I'm cute but a bit no nonsense. They've said I'm no different, that they've seen, with men or women but they think it's a two sides of the same coin kind of thing. That what attracts the married men is the same thing that puts off the single ones. That maybe I'm independent and don't seem to need a man. Because I don't flirt, I don't give off any desperate vibes. This makes single ones think I don't need them and won't commit and makes the married men confident I'll be up for no strings fun.

OP there is nothing you can do about this as you can't control how other people behave. I was in a book group and a 70 year old was coming on to me. He started waiting for me after work and telling me that his wife didn't mind him having flings. As though I was going to be interested in him!

They're just sad desperate twats, living sad desperate lives. Perhaps you need to start telling them to get lost and not worry so much about their feelings. I wouldn't message them separately from group chats and block them if they start flirting. Just cut it dead. If they still try then tell them to fuck off.

If you're the only single woman they hang out with maybe it makes them start considering you as an option?

You must have quite a magnetic personality or just that je ne sais quoi that grabs their attention!

It sounds like you're doing the right things by ignoring their attentions and really what else can you do? I don't think you should lose friends over this though. When you're propositioned, just say no and then continue with your friendships with the females as before?