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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Sharing the burden with a spouse

122 replies

fatherofdragons · 01/02/2021 03:09

I am hoping that people can give me some advice about conflict I am having with my DW over sharing housework.

Married just over 10 years. Two children 8 and 7. I work in City of London. Wife worked in City but gave up work after first child was born (was contracting so just did not go back - her choice). Live in decent-sized family house in Zone 3 since older child was six months. Last year wife retrained as a teacher and started full time job last September.

We have a lot of conflict over housework. During the time I was working and my wife was a SAHW she did not do so much housework. I would end up doing quite a bit on the weekend. We always had a cleaner for 3 hours a week and eventually I ended up paying for her to come for another 2 hours on a Friday so the place would be clean and tidy for the weekend. For context I was and am working 70-75 hour weeks in a City job with a lot of responsibility and have been the sole breadwinner and still earn 85-90% of our aggregate take home pay.

Before September we agreed that we would share housework equally. After giving our cleaner three months' notice we reduced her hours back to 3 hours a week. We have an after school nanny four days a week until 6.30 p.m. Because of Covid I have been working exclusively from home except for a couple of weeks in September when I was in the office for part of the week. My wife leaves for work before the children get up in the morning and gets home about 7 p.m.

The first issue is that I feel I am picking up all the housework and when I try to address this with my wife she just shouts at me.

  • I do 90% of the clothes washing This is not so difficult when I'm working from home but it does involve time running around and in winter the kids get muddy and stuff needs to get scrubbed before it can go in the wash. And stuff needs to be hung up to dry, taken down, folded, etc. Every week my wife says she will do some of the clothes washing at the weekend and every week she does nothing and I end up having do deal with it.
  • I deal with the children in the morning, making sure they get dressed, eat breakfast, brush teeth, get them to do Kumon and piano practice before school, make them packed lunch, bring them to school (keyworker children even though only one keyworker parent - please don't judge). I then come home and tidy up the kitchen a bit. Every three days or so I stop at the supermarket on the way home and pick up food.
  • In the evening I cook the dinner for everyone (unless leftovers from the previous day). This can take more or less time depending on what it is. I also make sure everything is washed up afterwards. Most days I get the girls to have a bath and get dressed for bed. Sometimes my wife will do that if she is home but not always even if she is.
  • I deal with the majority of the household bills and childrens' activities - booking them, paying for them, etc., although my wife also deals with some. Other stuff that comes up is always what I deal with, e.g. unblocking drain when it flooded at the weekend, changing lightbulbs, changing sheets, etc.

My wife has never mopped a floor in our house or dust anything. She vaccums very rarely. For example, when our cleaner is not coming during lockdown (I am still paying her so please don't judge) my wife vacuums maybe once for every ten times that I do.

Despite all that it is my wife who complains that I do not do more rather than me complaining that she does not. She will say that I clean but I do not tidy. She will say that whatever I am doing is not the priority and I should be doing something else. She will tell me not to do some chore because she is going to do it but then she does not and I end up doing it later that day or the next day. She shouts at me that the children have messed up the house and it is my fault. Honestly, I am one of these people who just tidy as I go - I go into the childrens' bedroom and pick up clothes, sort them out, pick up hangers, books, etc. I am also pretty good at getting them to tidy up after themselves. Before Christmas the two children spent half a day tidying up boxes of lego and one of them spent several hours sorting out and fitting into a cupboard all of their boardgames. My wife will shout at me or at the children that they have made a mess but she cannot work with them to get them to help clean it up and when I suggest that she does she says that they do it for me but they don't do it for her because she is the mother.

At any point over the weekend when my wife does any housework at all she will often start shouting at me, particularly if I am not also doing some sort of housework at the same time. It's like she resents having to do anything.

She will also blow up at me out of nowhere over things that are not done. In particular she shouts at me about the fact that most of our house is still unrenovated (but habitable). When we moved in we renovated about half of it. She was at home with a nine month old at the time and the original intention was that she would mostly deal with it. However, I ended up doing 90% of the work dealing with it - we were not doing anything structural and were engaging all the contractors directly - electrician, heating engineer, decorators, floorer, and buying all the fittings ourselves. I was up for a promotion that year and ended up not getting it because for months I was barely able to keep up at work while dealing with all of this at home.

Renovating the rest of the house involves quite a bit of structural work (we will have to move out for at least several months) and I simply don't have the bandwidth to deal with it on my own. After several years we got planning permission last autumn. Even for the planning permission I had to deal with everything. My wife would just say "we're paying for the architect, let him deal with it" but those of you who have done this sort of thing will know that it does not work like that, unless you have deep pockets and are happy to empty them. We are doing a kitchen extension and one obvious issue is that we want it to extend as much as, but no more than, we need it to, and that involves planning the kitchen - what will be in it, how big it will be etc. How far out the extension would be was one of the very few things that we needed to settle in advance of getting planning permission. I had to do it all myself. I remember one night asking my wife if she would measure up one of the existing rooms so that we could factor that in and she refused to do so. She would complain about us doing it late at night but she was a full time SAHM at the time and I was working 12-14 hour days.

When I would confront her and say "You are getting 8 hours of sleep, I am getting 4 hours of sleep. Why are you shouting at me about planning the work on the house?" she would say things like she needs more sleep than me and she cannot plan the work on the house as I am the one who earns the money (I see plenty of families in our neighbourhood where the wife is a SAHM who single-handedly deals with their home renovations). She's completely passive about the whole thing.

I am at my wits end with this because she's now f me out of it every couple of days and in front of the children. I would rather she was just honest with me and herself and say that she does not like doing housework and doesn't want to do housework. It's not that she is not hardworking - she works very hard at her current job and worked hard at previous jobs too. However, in my opinion from seeing with her own family she takes for granted those close to her. I cannot keep doing what I am doing now, never mind deal with a house renovation on my own. I'm getting more and more resentful of her and bitter towards her and how she treats me.

Do any of you have any thoughts on what I can do to deal with this? I have thought about separating and divorcing but I don't see how that would make things any better. I feel that the children are happier now than when my wife was a SAHM and they barely saw me Monday to Friday.

OP posts:
FortunesFave · 01/02/2021 03:59

I only got to the part where you explained about what you're doing...re. laundry and education etc. You quite obviously need an aupair or home help.

And a cleaner.

GaelicButter · 01/02/2021 04:18

I assume you're earning good money, so perhaps you should think about getting a housekeeper?

You find your wife passive, and say that she shouts. You don't need a website's permission to think, 'Oh bugger, we're just not compatible'.

You either buy in help (usually from other women, which is a whole other thread), or you start thinking about ending the relationship. She won't change. I don't think she sounds happy though. Just knackered, and bored at home. Her job fulfils her. Cleaning doesn't. You don't need her to 'just admit' things - she's already made it clear and you already know. Don't play games.

I doubt you will change either. Your 'standards' (for want of a better word) and your wife's are different.

snowliving · 01/02/2021 04:28

I would sell your current house and buy one that is easy to maintain.

Get a regular cleaner on more hours who will do ironing.

Set up tidying regime for the dc to help with.

Set up a hello fresh or similar order.

Then sit down with your OH, find out how things are from their perspective.

Having done that draw up a shared work list for dc, house etc. Agree what needs doing and who is going to do it or if it can be outsourced.

Jobsharenightmare · 01/02/2021 04:34

I have read your entire post and my thoughts are:

  1. You have different standards when it comes to how you want to live and she isn't prepared to live with lower standards but will not contribute to reaching her own high standards. This is why she shouts about you doing more. This won't change.
  1. She sees you as the (equally) main "mind" of the couple and has deferred to your decision making, planning and processing and either likes it this way or has no ability to think about taking on more (for various potential reasons).
  1. Your options are to do less, pay others to do more and put up with her shouting or divorce.

To be honest this sounds like a miserable life and I'd be increasingly resentful and unappreciated if I was you. Have you told her that these issues are making you feel unhappy? Does she even care?

Jobsharenightmare · 01/02/2021 04:35
  • (unequally)
TJ17 · 01/02/2021 04:39

I just got annoyed at the point you kept mentioning she was a SAHM as if that means at home all day doing nothing which INFURIATES me and I'm so glad my DH isn't so small minded to know it isn't like that when you have a baby. Hell some days I can't even get dressed never mind manage a house renovation!
Sounds to me like she's just given up because of your ridiculously high expectations.

I don't really understand why she got a full time job and then you reduced the cleaners hours either 🤷🏼‍♀️

You are both obviously really busy and out of the house/working long hours by the sounds of it (although not sure how you're clocking 75 hours a week on top of being super Dad doing everything Hmm around the house) so just up the cleaners hours again and lower your standards.

Getting a house that needed renovating when you have small children is a ridiculous added pressure that wasn't needed.

LudoTrouble · 01/02/2021 04:44

Your whole family's life sounds extremely exhausting!

I think the load is currently unfair and you're not being unreasonable, but it is hard if you can't agree that it's unfair.

celticmissey · 01/02/2021 05:03

Well, I do feel for you to be honest. I was you two years ago. I was working in the emergency services with a very demanding job, working loads of hours, then coming home and having to do everything in the house, everything with my young daughter and all the house administration.

My OH on the other hand had an 8-4 job and did hardly anything in the house to help me out. I became more and more exhausted and more and more resentful so I get where you're coming from. Despite asking them to help they didn't and I realised I couldn't go on like that. Ithink you're at that make or break time. You're doing almost everything that is not a fair relationship.

You both sound unhappy. Someone shouting like that at you is deeply hurtful when you're doing so much. Your wife is unlikely to change I'm afraid and you need to consider how much longer you can go on like this.

You have several options-

You talk to your wife, tell her how you feel and draw up a plan where these things are shared. If she doesn't want to share the load - knowing how you feel then at least you've communicated your feelings. Remember the saying "You get what you settle for".

You end the relationship before you completely burn out and go your separate ways and co parent your girls. Then you are only responsible for your home and your chores. Your wife will need to manage hers once she hasn't got you to do it all.

You hire in more help to lighten your load and share a smaller amount between the two of you - but this will still depend on your wife stepping up. The shouting at you is disrespectful and out of order. If you put up with it, that's all you will get.

To be honest, I ended it- I was completely burnt out. My ex was never going to change and woujd huff and puff if asked to do the slightest thing. I'm much happier now and even my dd has said tge atmosphere in our home is lovely.

Good luck, remember you get what you settle for but there are always options!

Sakurami · 01/02/2021 05:05

If it is as you describe then it sounds completely unfair. But I don't understand how you can fit in all that work and do all that childcare and housework and I also don't understand how your wife can have a problem if you do all that you do.

But two people who have such busy work lives need help.

If you're earning lots of money and you can afford it then get a project manager to sort your housebuild out, otherwise park it or sell and move somewhere finished. Or if she's a teacher, wait until the summer? House renovation s are super stressful and messy so not sure either of you would be able to cope with that.

Draw up a schedule of everything that needs doing. Sit down together and divide up the jobs. Then there are no complaints

OldWomanSaysThis · 01/02/2021 05:18

If this is really just about chores and not a deeper relationship issue - then you need a full time house manager (and get rid of the part-time cleaner and nanny). Two full time working parents and a house renovation issue - it's just not possible to juggle it all.

You're doing more now because you are working from home, right? What happens when you go back to the office?

SexyGiraffe · 01/02/2021 05:46

YANBU, OP. It sounds very stressful and you sound like you are exhausting yourself. I would be very unhappy with this state of affairs. She is being very unreasonable. It sounds like something else is going on though with your wife and this is just how it is manifesting through this situation. Do you have a good relationship in other ways? Do you have any time for each other?

Chiccie · 01/02/2021 06:10

Why? Seriously. Why? What on Earth are you doing? Just stop. For gods sake. Why would you do all that house renovation stuff?? I never understand this. Why can’t you just move to one of the commuter belt towns into a new build and not have all this rubbish. I have little sympathy because you’ve brought this on yourself. My kids have NEVER done kumon or whatever it is. Nobody I know does that. Piano before school? What are you doing? Me, my friends none of or kids do that stuff and everybody’s wildly successful. You seem deluded about what’s needed in life. Stop. Get off the treadmill. Dump the renovations, buy a normal house with a normal sized kitchen with one bedroom for each kid. With the money you save from not living in London buy in help. Get a cleaner every day! Gardener. Online groceries should be set up. Even basic people do that! Come on! I live in a commuter belt area. For example, the people opposite me in their new build house with small garden and zero maintenance have a cleaner twice a week, gardener, window washer, dog walker.. they both work and that’s normal. The wife does less hours than your wife and doesn’t have the stressful job your wife has and she does nothing at home apart from drink wine that her husband fetches her adoringly and occasionally walks the dog and kids at the weekends. Stop bleating on about when she was a SAHM. That ship sailed a long time ago. Why are you holding onto that. Your wife is a teacher during a global pandemic. I have friends who are teachers who have no children and are leaving the profession because of stress and workload. I’ve never read such an unsupportive and me me me post. Your wife is a key worker and is doing work vital to the continuation of our society. What she does saves lives. Sorry but it’s true. She has keyworker nhs kids all day so they can work in hospitals/icu. Yet here you are moaning about her not measuring a room! I don’t fricking blame her for not wanting to do housework. Neither would I in her circumstances. Get a cleaner. If you need to, buy in meals from somewhere like Cook. How much money have you got in savings? If it’s more than zero and you normally go on expensive carribean holidays or skiing trips then your head needs a wobble.

Chiccie · 01/02/2021 06:14

Oh and in my local school one of the teachers DIED from Covid because they are being exposed day after day. Do you ever think about that and what your wife is exposing herself to? You express no concern for her welfare or wellbeing or how worried she must be. My friend who has some prior health issues can’t return to her teaching job right now, it’s that risky if she does. Where’s your compassion?

noideabutstilltrying · 01/02/2021 06:17

Hi OP, there are several things which jump out at me.

The fact you reduced the cleaners time. If you can afford one, have one!!

The children, are they happy doing the activities that are planned for them? My husband and I were run ragged getting ours to different things. Turns out they weren't enjoying them. We cut back, happier children and happier parents.

The final thing ........ your relationship with your wife. Are you able to sit and calmly discuss things or does it become a shouting match? I tried to talk to my husband and various things. He just nodded or disagreed or carried on doing what he wanted.

Be honest about how much pressure your job and domestic tasks are taking on you with your wife.

Chunkymenrock · 01/02/2021 06:31

That sounds very tough OP. I agree about the renovations being a huge extra source of stress and a finished house would really help. You have to have a calm talk together, and find a way through this. Yes to paying for as much extra help as possible, looking at moving or builders to do the renovations, setting up for online groceries delivery and having an au pair maybe. Lots of small, practical things will make a big difference. Good luck.

OverTheRubicon · 01/02/2021 06:42

I think you've done yourself a disservice by starting with the SAHM / teacher / city job bit first (which naturally will get her the sympathy of most of us, including me at first) and only getting to the bits later where she wants cleaning and renovations done, doesn't do it herself and then shouts at you and the kids for failing to reach her standards.

If you're working a city job, why on earth aren't you paying for more household help? And frankly during lockdown, it's legal to get it, you don't have kids home so should be able to have a cleaner come with windows open and just not do the room you're in - it would save a lot of angst.

Then you need to have a discussion about what you both want done and how to do it. You can do some of it as a family.meeting, even - to get the kids involved and to hold you both a bit accountable. Or if it's beyond that, do it with a counsellor. And if that doesn't work out, then maybe work out whether your priorities are aligned in the long term.

PinkyParrot · 01/02/2021 06:54

This sounds like a role reversal. It's usually the man who isn't pulling his weight and finds excuses why not to.
Why does she work such long hours? Are you in the US. Is she actually working or just avoiding home life.

Your DCs will be young for say 10 years max. Then you will be free of so much housework. Pay for someone to sort your lives over this next 10 years, cleaners, aupair/a housekeeper who cooks.
Or separate.

PicsInRed · 01/02/2021 06:54

We have a lot of conflict over housework. During the time I was working and my wife was a SAHW she did not do so much housework. I would end up doing quite a bit on the weekend. We always had a cleaner for 3 hours a week and eventually I ended up paying for her to come for another 2 hours on a Friday so the place would be clean and tidy for the weekend.

Did your wife actually want to sack the cleaner or was that driven by you? Was it a cost thing? Do you expect the house spotless for the weekend - for when you're home? Is that, and then you firing the cleaner, what the shouting is actually about? Does she actually want the renovations?

Your wife is out of the house 12 hours a day working. Why don't you have a cleaner? Is she NHS or other front line type work by any chance? You say you do all the getting the kids up etc, are you wfh or furloughed right now?

I feel like there's a lot of relevant information missing here intentionally but it's jumping out between the lines.

If you're both busy and have the money, why on earth would you fire the cleaner?

PicsInRed · 01/02/2021 06:59

Ah, she's a full time teacher. Does she want this house or would she rather sell and buy something lower maintenance?

sammylady37 · 01/02/2021 07:06

I suspect the responses would be very different if the op was a woman

Itsnotlikethiswithotherpeople · 01/02/2021 07:08

@TJ17

I just got annoyed at the point you kept mentioning she was a SAHM as if that means at home all day doing nothing which INFURIATES me and I'm so glad my DH isn't so small minded to know it isn't like that when you have a baby. Hell some days I can't even get dressed never mind manage a house renovation! Sounds to me like she's just given up because of your ridiculously high expectations.

I don't really understand why she got a full time job and then you reduced the cleaners hours either 🤷🏼‍♀️

You are both obviously really busy and out of the house/working long hours by the sounds of it (although not sure how you're clocking 75 hours a week on top of being super Dad doing everything Hmm around the house) so just up the cleaners hours again and lower your standards.

Getting a house that needed renovating when you have small children is a ridiculous added pressure that wasn't needed.

This! Get a housekeeper and just consider it a wellbeing thing for all of you. Neither of you enjoy doing housework, you’re both working full time so pay for it. Your expectations around the house renovation seem unreasonable to me. When I was a SAHM I definitely did not have capacity for that. Perhaps she is a bit resentful about the early years with babies and thinks you’re getting to see what it was like?
Itsnotlikethiswithotherpeople · 01/02/2021 07:10

@PinkyParrot

This sounds like a role reversal. It's usually the man who isn't pulling his weight and finds excuses why not to. Why does she work such long hours? Are you in the US. Is she actually working or just avoiding home life.

Your DCs will be young for say 10 years max. Then you will be free of so much housework. Pay for someone to sort your lives over this next 10 years, cleaners, aupair/a housekeeper who cooks.
Or separate.

She’s a teacher and it does require long hours. Sounds realistic to me.
Beforethetakingoftoastandtea · 01/02/2021 07:19

Kumon and piano before school?! Poor kids.

Why on earth would you reduce the cleanera hours when your wife went full time?? That makes no sense at all.

Why are you food shopping every three days? Do you have no car? Can you get a full week’s shop delivered?

You seem to be making life harder than it needs to be with a lot of these decisions.

Perhaps she is a bit resentful about the early years with babies and thinks you’re getting to see what it was like? this is a possibility. You thought a sahm with small children / babies should be doing housework, she knew having babies was a round the clock job; now she wants you to understand that. But as a punkshment when she works full time you reduce the external help. What a weird and passive aggressive situation for children to witness.

ravenmum · 01/02/2021 07:25

Ths shouting doesn't sound good. But your home life sounds very stressful. I don't think I'd be happy with it, either.

She would complain about us doing it late at night but she was a full time SAHM at the time and I was working 12-14 hour days.
What does "but" mean in that sentence? She was also doing at least 12-14 hours of work a day. Presumably more, if she was effectively a City widow.

You are getting 8 hours of sleep, I am getting 4 hours of sleep.
Human beings normally need 8 hours of sleep. You have chosen a lifestyle in which you get less than that. That doesn't mean she has to do the same thing.

I see plenty of families in our neighbourhood where the wife is a SAHM who single-handedly deals with their home renovations
And you think those wives are happy?

ravenmum · 01/02/2021 07:26

Stop going to the supermarket every 3 days. We're supposed to be cutting back on visits.