Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Sharing the burden with a spouse

122 replies

fatherofdragons · 01/02/2021 03:09

I am hoping that people can give me some advice about conflict I am having with my DW over sharing housework.

Married just over 10 years. Two children 8 and 7. I work in City of London. Wife worked in City but gave up work after first child was born (was contracting so just did not go back - her choice). Live in decent-sized family house in Zone 3 since older child was six months. Last year wife retrained as a teacher and started full time job last September.

We have a lot of conflict over housework. During the time I was working and my wife was a SAHW she did not do so much housework. I would end up doing quite a bit on the weekend. We always had a cleaner for 3 hours a week and eventually I ended up paying for her to come for another 2 hours on a Friday so the place would be clean and tidy for the weekend. For context I was and am working 70-75 hour weeks in a City job with a lot of responsibility and have been the sole breadwinner and still earn 85-90% of our aggregate take home pay.

Before September we agreed that we would share housework equally. After giving our cleaner three months' notice we reduced her hours back to 3 hours a week. We have an after school nanny four days a week until 6.30 p.m. Because of Covid I have been working exclusively from home except for a couple of weeks in September when I was in the office for part of the week. My wife leaves for work before the children get up in the morning and gets home about 7 p.m.

The first issue is that I feel I am picking up all the housework and when I try to address this with my wife she just shouts at me.

  • I do 90% of the clothes washing This is not so difficult when I'm working from home but it does involve time running around and in winter the kids get muddy and stuff needs to get scrubbed before it can go in the wash. And stuff needs to be hung up to dry, taken down, folded, etc. Every week my wife says she will do some of the clothes washing at the weekend and every week she does nothing and I end up having do deal with it.
  • I deal with the children in the morning, making sure they get dressed, eat breakfast, brush teeth, get them to do Kumon and piano practice before school, make them packed lunch, bring them to school (keyworker children even though only one keyworker parent - please don't judge). I then come home and tidy up the kitchen a bit. Every three days or so I stop at the supermarket on the way home and pick up food.
  • In the evening I cook the dinner for everyone (unless leftovers from the previous day). This can take more or less time depending on what it is. I also make sure everything is washed up afterwards. Most days I get the girls to have a bath and get dressed for bed. Sometimes my wife will do that if she is home but not always even if she is.
  • I deal with the majority of the household bills and childrens' activities - booking them, paying for them, etc., although my wife also deals with some. Other stuff that comes up is always what I deal with, e.g. unblocking drain when it flooded at the weekend, changing lightbulbs, changing sheets, etc.

My wife has never mopped a floor in our house or dust anything. She vaccums very rarely. For example, when our cleaner is not coming during lockdown (I am still paying her so please don't judge) my wife vacuums maybe once for every ten times that I do.

Despite all that it is my wife who complains that I do not do more rather than me complaining that she does not. She will say that I clean but I do not tidy. She will say that whatever I am doing is not the priority and I should be doing something else. She will tell me not to do some chore because she is going to do it but then she does not and I end up doing it later that day or the next day. She shouts at me that the children have messed up the house and it is my fault. Honestly, I am one of these people who just tidy as I go - I go into the childrens' bedroom and pick up clothes, sort them out, pick up hangers, books, etc. I am also pretty good at getting them to tidy up after themselves. Before Christmas the two children spent half a day tidying up boxes of lego and one of them spent several hours sorting out and fitting into a cupboard all of their boardgames. My wife will shout at me or at the children that they have made a mess but she cannot work with them to get them to help clean it up and when I suggest that she does she says that they do it for me but they don't do it for her because she is the mother.

At any point over the weekend when my wife does any housework at all she will often start shouting at me, particularly if I am not also doing some sort of housework at the same time. It's like she resents having to do anything.

She will also blow up at me out of nowhere over things that are not done. In particular she shouts at me about the fact that most of our house is still unrenovated (but habitable). When we moved in we renovated about half of it. She was at home with a nine month old at the time and the original intention was that she would mostly deal with it. However, I ended up doing 90% of the work dealing with it - we were not doing anything structural and were engaging all the contractors directly - electrician, heating engineer, decorators, floorer, and buying all the fittings ourselves. I was up for a promotion that year and ended up not getting it because for months I was barely able to keep up at work while dealing with all of this at home.

Renovating the rest of the house involves quite a bit of structural work (we will have to move out for at least several months) and I simply don't have the bandwidth to deal with it on my own. After several years we got planning permission last autumn. Even for the planning permission I had to deal with everything. My wife would just say "we're paying for the architect, let him deal with it" but those of you who have done this sort of thing will know that it does not work like that, unless you have deep pockets and are happy to empty them. We are doing a kitchen extension and one obvious issue is that we want it to extend as much as, but no more than, we need it to, and that involves planning the kitchen - what will be in it, how big it will be etc. How far out the extension would be was one of the very few things that we needed to settle in advance of getting planning permission. I had to do it all myself. I remember one night asking my wife if she would measure up one of the existing rooms so that we could factor that in and she refused to do so. She would complain about us doing it late at night but she was a full time SAHM at the time and I was working 12-14 hour days.

When I would confront her and say "You are getting 8 hours of sleep, I am getting 4 hours of sleep. Why are you shouting at me about planning the work on the house?" she would say things like she needs more sleep than me and she cannot plan the work on the house as I am the one who earns the money (I see plenty of families in our neighbourhood where the wife is a SAHM who single-handedly deals with their home renovations). She's completely passive about the whole thing.

I am at my wits end with this because she's now f me out of it every couple of days and in front of the children. I would rather she was just honest with me and herself and say that she does not like doing housework and doesn't want to do housework. It's not that she is not hardworking - she works very hard at her current job and worked hard at previous jobs too. However, in my opinion from seeing with her own family she takes for granted those close to her. I cannot keep doing what I am doing now, never mind deal with a house renovation on my own. I'm getting more and more resentful of her and bitter towards her and how she treats me.

Do any of you have any thoughts on what I can do to deal with this? I have thought about separating and divorcing but I don't see how that would make things any better. I feel that the children are happier now than when my wife was a SAHM and they barely saw me Monday to Friday.

OP posts:
Twoginsonetonic · 01/02/2021 07:26

Get out

PicsInRed · 01/02/2021 07:27

@sammylady37

I suspect the responses would be very different if the op was a woman
If they were a high earning, long hours family and she was complaining that she fired the cleaner and why wont he do more cleaning - the answer would be "what are you doing, rehire the cleaner".
RantyAnty · 01/02/2021 07:28

Oh you poor poor dear. Grin

You have 2 school age DC, cleaning help, and a nanny until 6pm 4 nights per week but somehow you can't cope with the basic chores that majority of women do daily as the norm,without the nanny and cleaner and without a lengthy whinge.

Are you feeling a bit jealous of your friends with the SAH wives who do everything while their husbands work long hours and come home to a clean home, hot meals, and leisure plus hobbies and weekend golf or cycling?

I bet the reno house was your bright idea too.

Bellofbelfastcity · 01/02/2021 07:29

She’s a teacher in her pqe year in a pandemic.

You earn 10 fortunes. Buy more help

PicsInRed · 01/02/2021 07:30

One more question OP.

Is your wife a mumsnetter?

sammylady37 · 01/02/2021 07:40

sammylady37
I suspect the responses would be very different if the op was a woman
If they were a high earning, long hours family and she was complaining that she fired the cleaner and why wont he do more cleaning - the answer would be "what are you doing, rehire the cleaner

I think she sound be good she was being abused (the shouting), taken advantage of and also she would be believed. There would not be anybody making snide remarks about how wonderful she was to be doing all this housework on top of her regular job. But more than one poster has questioned the op on that and basically insinuated he’s lying. I’ve never seen that on the many, many “my DP doesn’t pull his weight” threads.

sammylady37 · 01/02/2021 07:40
  • would be told, instead of sould be good!
sammylady37 · 01/02/2021 07:42

^ and she certainly wouldn’t be mocked like this:

*Oh you poor poor dear. grin

You have 2 school age DC, cleaning help, and a nanny until 6pm 4 nights per week but somehow you can't cope with the basic chores that majority of women do daily as the norm,without the nanny and cleaner and without a lengthy whinge*

MMmomDD · 01/02/2021 07:46

OP - your post is a combination of both legitimate and less reasonable complains that are hard to unpick.
Legitimate bits are obviously where she doesn’t contribute to the chores that she said she’d do; and where she seems to raise her voice often. (She seems quite unhappy but not necessarily and excuse to do it in front of kids)
Unreasonable statements start with -

  • ‘after having a baby she didn’t come back to the City, her choice’ - Was having a parent at home not best for the kids, given that you can clearly afford it?
-‘she wasn’t able to manage house renovations while caring for a 9mo old’ - seriously? I don’t know many women who could. Etc.

I think what ended up happening with the two of you is mutual resentment. Yours is quite clear.
But I think she is in a massively resentful place too. You seem to not understand or value what she did as a stay at home parent. And I think she prioritised spending her time at home actually being present with the children, rather than doing endless housework in a large house.

Throw in different standards that you seem to have - clearly demonstrated by your insistence that you need to do the planning permission work yourself - vs her saying ‘but we hired a professional to do it’ - and you have a recipe for the situation you are In.

As to solutions. You can, of course divorce over this. It not sure if your life would become much happier.
Alternatively - I think you need to manage your life a bit differently. And rethink your priorities a bit.
You are spending money on Kumon/piano lessons. And have a large house. And an after school nanny for 4 days.
You have the resources to never argue over cleaning the house/ doing laundry.

More cleaner time, plus rethinking what your ‘after school nanny’ does. 7&8 year old don’t need constant entertainment - surely whoever you hired should be able to do some cleaning/tidying/cooking?
(After all - you thought your W was supposed to do all of that while at home with kids, why not have same expectations of the hired help?)

As to house renovation - I’d either park or or move. It is clear you can’t take that on as a family at this point.

Craftycorvid · 01/02/2021 07:47

A few things strike me about the way you describe your situation. My impression is you and your wife have rather lost sight of each other in the process of work and raising children. I’m not too sure the housework is the issue, rather it’s a symptom. To complete teacher training and go into a second career is a huge step for an individual and a relationship. I get a sense she’s been completely absorbed in the process of re-training and being back in the working world and is struggling to find motivation/energy for other things. You say she’s never been particularly interested in housework, or at least your standards have always differed. I’d suggest that now she has so much else going on, it’s become the focus of resentment for her too (was it always, I wonder?). People send messages in their actions and her seems to be asking for attention to be paid to where she sees herself now. Whilst she’s in the process of re-discovering herself outside being a mother and wife, you’ve been caught in the hard graft of a longer-term career and you just want things at home to feel secure and stable. Neither of you is wrong but you are at different life stages. I wonder if you could talk to each other more generally about your relationship? You may well be doing that of course, but it’s not evident from your post. In short: I suspect housework is a red herring. Talking and listening to one another about where you see your lives now and in the future might give you more information and help you negotiate beyond the cycle of complaints and shouting.

ravenmum · 01/02/2021 07:48

I'm sure OP would get a different response on a website full of male users, yes.

Still, it is quite hard to relate to someone finding it hard to cope with taking their children to school and doing the washing for a not especially large family, while almost all the rest of the work is presumably done by the cleaner who still comes in 3 hours a week (if I understood that right?!) and a nanny who comes in daily?

yearinyearout · 01/02/2021 07:54

You have 2 school age DC, cleaning help, and a nanny until 6pm 4 nights per week but somehow you can't cope with the basic chores that majority of women do daily as the norm,without the nanny and cleaner and without a lengthy whinge.

Did you miss the bit about him also working full time?

waitrosetrollydolly · 01/02/2021 08:03

So if you equate these problems to work and deal with them the way you would with a work problem . Ie outsource, team chat with goal plan and compassion for everyone involved. Then if all that fails, consider issuing p45's.

PicsInRed · 01/02/2021 08:03

Did you miss the bit about him also working full time?

So does she - very long hours.

My suspicion is as a poster sagely suggested above - she's intentionally dropped the rope to let him know how difficult it was for her all those years, and she's been proven correct. The obvious answer is to rehire the cleaner.

I think choosing the moment of her retraining and 12 hour days as the time to fire the cleaner is very curious indeed.

PicsInRed · 01/02/2021 08:04

@waitrosetrollydolly

So if you equate these problems to work and deal with them the way you would with a work problem . Ie outsource, team chat with goal plan and compassion for everyone involved. Then if all that fails, consider issuing p45's.
It sounds like she's already resigned...
BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 01/02/2021 08:08

If she is up and out of the house before the kids even get up, then how can she possibly do more to help in the morning routine? She could prep the packed lunches the night before - that's about it.

It's up to you to make the mornings work for you and dc. Why all the practice and gaff every morning? Our mornings are spent getting washed/dressed/fed. That's it. O wouldn't DREAM of adding in extra stress first thing in the morning.

I didn't even read the rest of your OP yet as I was blown away by how bloody difficult you are making things for yourself on a morning.

ravenmum · 01/02/2021 08:09

Did you miss the bit about him also working full time?
I guess there are just a good few of us who worked full-time while also doing the things OP does, but without a cleaner or nanny, and never even questioned it.
Perhaps we should have questioned it.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 01/02/2021 08:10

He works full time bit seems to have a lot more time not working/commuting than his wife does. He is able to do the morning routine, school run and a supermarket sjop before logging on for the day and is finished at least 30mins before his wife walks in the door.

Bellofbelfastcity · 01/02/2021 08:11

Actually yeah to echo what @BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz said I think you are a bit of a martyr.

I never did any extra shit in the mornings. It was up dressed fed out.

I also never scrubbed muddy clothes that were just mud from playing. That’s what a washing machine is for.

CeeceeBloomingdale · 01/02/2021 08:12

If your nagging is as long winded as your OP I'm not surprised she isn't engaging, o feel worn down reading it. Stop being a martyr, accept you have different standards and use the cleaner you are paying to do nothing.

Bellofbelfastcity · 01/02/2021 08:14

Also. Use a tumble drier. Saves a ton of time and stuff often doesn’t need ironed. Especially kids stuff.

ravenmum · 01/02/2021 08:16

This is a man who scrubs the kids' clothes before washing them. (Am I weird for never having done that? Were my children bizarrely clean that the washing machine was enough?)
He's not going to leave them unironed.

MechantGourmet · 01/02/2021 08:28

@PicsInRed

Did you miss the bit about him also working full time?

So does she - very long hours.

My suspicion is as a poster sagely suggested above - she's intentionally dropped the rope to let him know how difficult it was for her all those years, and she's been proven correct. The obvious answer is to rehire the cleaner.

I think choosing the moment of her retraining and 12 hour days as the time to fire the cleaner is very curious indeed.

This. This is what I suspect has happened. She wants you to understand what it was like for her.
rookiemere · 01/02/2021 08:44

Who chose a house that needed so much renovation? Are you sure the only reason you missed the promotion was because of time spent on it ?
Why did you list how to do washing- we all know ?
Lots of inefficiencies in your list -

  • You have an after school nanny let her do Kumon and music practice
  • Do a once a week online food shop. Saves loads of time. This is something your DW could book and organise
  • Get a robohoover - sounds like a heck of a lot pf possibly unnecessary hoovering going on, but with a robohoover then much less work
  • Unless your DCs are literally rolling in mud then the washing doesn't need pre washing.

Ultimately doesn't sound like you and DW have a happy life together. May be worth giving marriage counselling a go, rather than task lists.

Marinaloves · 01/02/2021 08:45

Some serious projection on here
The fact that she’s constantly shouting at you is awful bordering on abuse. If it were the other way round MN would be up in arms.
Someone constantly shouting about what you are or aren’t doing in the house means you’re always on edge, and then end up reaching out somewhere like here.

Sometimes I genuinely feel like started mirror threads on here and see what the answers would be.

Swipe left for the next trending thread