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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Sharing the burden with a spouse

122 replies

fatherofdragons · 01/02/2021 03:09

I am hoping that people can give me some advice about conflict I am having with my DW over sharing housework.

Married just over 10 years. Two children 8 and 7. I work in City of London. Wife worked in City but gave up work after first child was born (was contracting so just did not go back - her choice). Live in decent-sized family house in Zone 3 since older child was six months. Last year wife retrained as a teacher and started full time job last September.

We have a lot of conflict over housework. During the time I was working and my wife was a SAHW she did not do so much housework. I would end up doing quite a bit on the weekend. We always had a cleaner for 3 hours a week and eventually I ended up paying for her to come for another 2 hours on a Friday so the place would be clean and tidy for the weekend. For context I was and am working 70-75 hour weeks in a City job with a lot of responsibility and have been the sole breadwinner and still earn 85-90% of our aggregate take home pay.

Before September we agreed that we would share housework equally. After giving our cleaner three months' notice we reduced her hours back to 3 hours a week. We have an after school nanny four days a week until 6.30 p.m. Because of Covid I have been working exclusively from home except for a couple of weeks in September when I was in the office for part of the week. My wife leaves for work before the children get up in the morning and gets home about 7 p.m.

The first issue is that I feel I am picking up all the housework and when I try to address this with my wife she just shouts at me.

  • I do 90% of the clothes washing This is not so difficult when I'm working from home but it does involve time running around and in winter the kids get muddy and stuff needs to get scrubbed before it can go in the wash. And stuff needs to be hung up to dry, taken down, folded, etc. Every week my wife says she will do some of the clothes washing at the weekend and every week she does nothing and I end up having do deal with it.
  • I deal with the children in the morning, making sure they get dressed, eat breakfast, brush teeth, get them to do Kumon and piano practice before school, make them packed lunch, bring them to school (keyworker children even though only one keyworker parent - please don't judge). I then come home and tidy up the kitchen a bit. Every three days or so I stop at the supermarket on the way home and pick up food.
  • In the evening I cook the dinner for everyone (unless leftovers from the previous day). This can take more or less time depending on what it is. I also make sure everything is washed up afterwards. Most days I get the girls to have a bath and get dressed for bed. Sometimes my wife will do that if she is home but not always even if she is.
  • I deal with the majority of the household bills and childrens' activities - booking them, paying for them, etc., although my wife also deals with some. Other stuff that comes up is always what I deal with, e.g. unblocking drain when it flooded at the weekend, changing lightbulbs, changing sheets, etc.

My wife has never mopped a floor in our house or dust anything. She vaccums very rarely. For example, when our cleaner is not coming during lockdown (I am still paying her so please don't judge) my wife vacuums maybe once for every ten times that I do.

Despite all that it is my wife who complains that I do not do more rather than me complaining that she does not. She will say that I clean but I do not tidy. She will say that whatever I am doing is not the priority and I should be doing something else. She will tell me not to do some chore because she is going to do it but then she does not and I end up doing it later that day or the next day. She shouts at me that the children have messed up the house and it is my fault. Honestly, I am one of these people who just tidy as I go - I go into the childrens' bedroom and pick up clothes, sort them out, pick up hangers, books, etc. I am also pretty good at getting them to tidy up after themselves. Before Christmas the two children spent half a day tidying up boxes of lego and one of them spent several hours sorting out and fitting into a cupboard all of their boardgames. My wife will shout at me or at the children that they have made a mess but she cannot work with them to get them to help clean it up and when I suggest that she does she says that they do it for me but they don't do it for her because she is the mother.

At any point over the weekend when my wife does any housework at all she will often start shouting at me, particularly if I am not also doing some sort of housework at the same time. It's like she resents having to do anything.

She will also blow up at me out of nowhere over things that are not done. In particular she shouts at me about the fact that most of our house is still unrenovated (but habitable). When we moved in we renovated about half of it. She was at home with a nine month old at the time and the original intention was that she would mostly deal with it. However, I ended up doing 90% of the work dealing with it - we were not doing anything structural and were engaging all the contractors directly - electrician, heating engineer, decorators, floorer, and buying all the fittings ourselves. I was up for a promotion that year and ended up not getting it because for months I was barely able to keep up at work while dealing with all of this at home.

Renovating the rest of the house involves quite a bit of structural work (we will have to move out for at least several months) and I simply don't have the bandwidth to deal with it on my own. After several years we got planning permission last autumn. Even for the planning permission I had to deal with everything. My wife would just say "we're paying for the architect, let him deal with it" but those of you who have done this sort of thing will know that it does not work like that, unless you have deep pockets and are happy to empty them. We are doing a kitchen extension and one obvious issue is that we want it to extend as much as, but no more than, we need it to, and that involves planning the kitchen - what will be in it, how big it will be etc. How far out the extension would be was one of the very few things that we needed to settle in advance of getting planning permission. I had to do it all myself. I remember one night asking my wife if she would measure up one of the existing rooms so that we could factor that in and she refused to do so. She would complain about us doing it late at night but she was a full time SAHM at the time and I was working 12-14 hour days.

When I would confront her and say "You are getting 8 hours of sleep, I am getting 4 hours of sleep. Why are you shouting at me about planning the work on the house?" she would say things like she needs more sleep than me and she cannot plan the work on the house as I am the one who earns the money (I see plenty of families in our neighbourhood where the wife is a SAHM who single-handedly deals with their home renovations). She's completely passive about the whole thing.

I am at my wits end with this because she's now f me out of it every couple of days and in front of the children. I would rather she was just honest with me and herself and say that she does not like doing housework and doesn't want to do housework. It's not that she is not hardworking - she works very hard at her current job and worked hard at previous jobs too. However, in my opinion from seeing with her own family she takes for granted those close to her. I cannot keep doing what I am doing now, never mind deal with a house renovation on my own. I'm getting more and more resentful of her and bitter towards her and how she treats me.

Do any of you have any thoughts on what I can do to deal with this? I have thought about separating and divorcing but I don't see how that would make things any better. I feel that the children are happier now than when my wife was a SAHM and they barely saw me Monday to Friday.

OP posts:
TJ17 · 01/02/2021 13:59

So what do you want us to do - tell her off 🤷🏼‍♀️🙄

Leave her then?

DioneTheDiabolist · 01/02/2021 13:59

Your wife didn't really clean when she was a SAHM, she was hardly going to do more when working full time OP.🙄 Getting rid of the Friday cleaner was a stupid mistake, ask her back.

fatherofdragons · 01/02/2021 14:02

"The irony in your comment is that you clearly have bugger all idea of what it’s like to be in charge of two small children day in, day out whereas your wife has experienced both. So perhaps if she has found it difficult compared to a career in the city, retraining as a parent or starting in teaching, this should make give you an idea of what it’s like."

I have spent several weeks looking after the children on my own when they were pre-school age while my wife was out of the country visiting family. I took time off work but in my job there are never days were one is offline completely.

I'm sure that there are people who do not like being a SAHP and it is not for them. This was not the case with my wife. She was very happy being a SAHM. We discussed before we got married what we would want in terms of having children and this was what she said she wanted then, what she wanted when we did have children, and at no point was she unhappy about it. My sister and her husband work full time with three children aged similar but slight younger ages to ours and they have a full time 60 hour a week nanny and my wife says she would never have wanted that and that my sister is wrecked from it all and yes, I agree with my wife that my sister has a much harder time of things than my wife did. I agree with commenters that some of the other commenters here are projecting...

OP posts:
SinkGirl · 01/02/2021 14:10

You really don’t seem to have any self awareness at all. Taking holiday from your job to look after your children is nothing at all like giving up a good career to care for them year round while your partner works 70+ hours a week. Do you genuinely not see that?

You think posters are projecting but actually lots of women here have been in your wife’s position and are trying to enlighten you on what it’s like. Clearly she’s not deliriously happy with being a SAHM since she’s obviously pissed off, which is clear from her behaviour, and the fact that despite not needing the money or the stress she bothered to retrain start a new career.

People here are trying to be helpful, believe it or not. Whether you take it onboard or not is up to you.

chopc · 01/02/2021 14:16

Is the OP male?

If it was the wife who came on saying all this about her husband how many would say they need to buy in extra help?

Most would ostracise the husband wouldn't they?

fatherofdragons · 01/02/2021 14:17

SinkGirl: There's a difference between trying to be helpful, as many people have been, and writing fiction about other people's lives.

My wife did not like her job in the City at all - she'd already tried to get away from it once, retraining for something else, then finding that work opportunities in that area were limited and pay was terrible compared with City so grudgingly went back to working in the City. She was paid well in the City because she contracted and therefore got overtime - she deliberately chose that over taking a permanent job which would have paid less upfront but would have allowed for more promotional opportunities.

Part of the reason that my wife wanted to retrain as a teacher was because of how much she enjoyed teaching our children and how much she learnt herself about it. She did not go back until both of them had been at primary school for a couple of years. People can do things that are not for the money. She had 25+ years before state retirement age, our children were in school full days, she was getting bored and wanted to do something different.

OP posts:
NewYearHere20 · 01/02/2021 14:21

It sounds like you are both at breaking point. Her shouting at you regarding chores - and your resentment of her not doing the chores is just a sign that, as a family you are trying to do too much. It's really that simple.

These days there is (i think) far too much pressure for nicely brought up kids to have all the extra curricular activities, get high grades in school... for your house to be a perfect picture like in a glossy magazine - and for both the husband and wife to have interesting fulfilling careers.
And now you're trying to do all of that amid a global pandemic. It's not surprizing cracks are starting to form in your relationship.
You both need to pause and work out what's important to you - trying to do it all is simply not sustainable.

Could you both take a week off work this up coming half term? Give the kids a break from the extra curricular activities? Log off from work yourself - and hopefully your wife will get a break from school work?
Sit down between you and work out what's most important.
I agree with a couple of others that spending more money on cleaners/childcare is probably a sensible idea in your position. Are the renovations to the house really that important? Can you park that idea for another 6-12 months to give yourself a bit of breathing space. Could you consider moving instead to achieve kind of house you'd like?
The bottom line is you are both at breaking point you need to listen to that and do something to avoid breaking apart spectacularly.

Good Luck

PicsInRed · 01/02/2021 14:29

So...again, how much of the nanny bill do you pay and how does does wife pay?

Why aren't you willing to up the cleaner's hours?

Why are your earnings held in a separate account?

ravenmum · 01/02/2021 14:33

my wife is going to bed at 9/10 p.m. and I am up until 1/2 a.m. in the morning (or later) doing work. I said in my original post that I do 70 hour weeks
Your wife is going to bed at a normal time, then, while you are doing a ridiculous amount of work - so much that presumably it is a huge stress on the entire family? I understand that you enjoy a certain lifestyle - but is that what your wife signed up to when you settled down and planned your family life? Is it what you planned and wanted? Do you still want it - until retirement? Is it possible to do this job and have any quality of life on an everyday basis?

Gilda152 · 01/02/2021 14:34

You're getting a very raw deal. MY exh is in a CEO position of a stockbrokers/hedge fund etc and he is separated from his wife after me. They have 3 children together under 9. He looks after them at weekends single handedly (he's a great dad) looks after his house, does all his cooking etc etc and works all the other hours gods sends from his home office. round his chores because thats the nature of his job. You're basically living his life OP, except you're actually married and should be in a partnership. Your wife might well have wanted to cut down the cleaners hours etc but she doesn't want to pull her weight. So get the cleaner back if you can. Her shouting at you is abusive and you don't have to take it to be honest. She wants an aspirational lifestyle without contributing much either financially or in the back office at it were and that's not fair. You deserve to be supported emotionally and in practice as you are supporting her. Make a good decision for your family and you and up the cleaner and rethink the renovations. What are they for anyway? Because you have money so you need to spend it? That restelessness of what can we buy/change next? Just get your day to day life sorted before you go into restorations.

ravenmum · 01/02/2021 14:39

You describe your wife's job as if she is doing it because it fulfils her personally - but to me, it sounds like a full-time, full-on job that pays a decent salary by normal standards. Sure, you are used to jobs that pay ten times that amount, but that comparison doesn't make it into a hobby that leaves her relaxed, refreshed and ready to start cleaning when she gets home. It's just as hard a job as it would be if you worked in Tesco's and she earned more than you.

ravenmum · 01/02/2021 14:40

She wants an aspirational lifestyle
Does she (still) want that, though?

Zoinksalot · 01/02/2021 14:43

IN THE WORDS OF 95% OF MNS HAD THIS BEEN A WOMEN POSTING ABOUT A MAN

....LTB

SHE SOUNDS SHIT

Gilda152 · 01/02/2021 14:51

Ravenmum she might well not. But again speaking as someone formerly married to a city type, if you don't want the city of london lifestyle, leave. Don't take half, just go and live a nice normal life as a teacher. Nothing at all wrong with that, as I'm married to a teacher now who's amazing.

I'm absolutely projecting my own experience here as we all do but really, she sounds entitled and spoiled and worse than that, disinterested in her home, her husband and her life.

snowliving · 01/02/2021 14:53

It doesn't matter how happy she was or wasn't as a SAHM, because she is currently a teacher.
You are both working long hours in stressful jobs, you have small dc and are living in a half finished house.

It isn't surprising you are both stressed and tired.

The only way I have seen this work is by throwing money at it as you say, or outsourcing chores that you as a couple don't have the time or inclination to do.

I would find it very stressful living in a half finished house. If neither of you either have the time or inclination to sort the house then selling it and moving should be a discussion. Or a clear mutually agreed timescale for getting it sorted.

I would talk to her about the amount she is shouting as this isn't a good environment for the kids, as a teacher she is going to know this.

Try and have a calm conversation about what you both want your lives as a family to look like and what it will take to get it there.

fatherofdragons · 01/02/2021 14:54

ravenmum: I agree with what you say: both my wife and I work hard. We had agreed that we would share housework roughly 50/50. However, since Sept I have been doing 80-90%. She said that she had started a new job so she needed some support. However, there is no sign of this changing. And it's her who is shouting at me about things not getting done (e.g. renovation specs, or toys/books tidied away) not me who is complaining to her. She says that we cannot have certain people over because our kitchen is too dilapidated and she would be embarrassed. So yes, there is an element of wanting an aspirational lifestyle.

To those people who say: sell the house, buy a renovated house, it is good advice but the numbers are not great. To buy a similar renovated house in the same area we would end up £750-800k out of pocket - maybe more. Our house is a great house if it were renovated. The cost of the renovations would be £300-350k. If it were £100-200k I would do it, but £450k is a lot of money to spend for the convenience. Getting someone to help us with renovating would be great but we have met a lot of charlatans and shysters and everyone else we know who had done this sort of work has either managed it themselves or reports a terrible experience. Our architect will (lightly) project manage the relevant build and we will use a more reputable and experienced (but also more expensive) builder. The problem is getting all the specs drawn up on the first place. When we just leave the architect to come up with stuff without input (tried once, expensively) my wife then says it is not what she intended/wanted (understandable since she never conveyed what she intended/wanted to me or the architect).

OP posts:
ravenmum · 01/02/2021 14:58

Well, yes, she probably should leave, as it sounds like their life together is horrible. But then again, OP should probably leave too, and he doesn't want to either.

My exh didn't earn any more than me, but he was a workaholic, and I can say from that experience that it is quite hard to stay interested in someone as a person when the scraps of time you do have together are spent on soulless practicalities, simply as there IS so little time. I don't think it's good for anyone in the family. (I know, surgeons, politicians etc. all do it and we are lucky that they do. But it does kill a relationship.)

PicsInRed · 01/02/2021 15:03

Don't take half, just go and live a nice normal life as a teacher.

It does sound exactly like she's planning her exit.

snowliving · 01/02/2021 15:03

I understand what you are saying about the cost of the house.
I would suggest that the situation you are living in isn't sustainable in the longer term and that divorce is expensive.

You and your wife need more time for family life and being together as a couple. Otherwise you aren't going to stay together.

I agree with raven that coexistence in the same space and joint chore completion isn't successful.

Marriages with d. where both parties prioritize their work are hard and do need good external support.

Covidwedding123 · 01/02/2021 15:08

I think you seen like a really understanding husband and your wife doesn’t know how lucky she is! Have a look at some of the threads where the husband won’t change a nappy and goes off cycling all weekend!

Your wife sounds a bit stressed and you feel you can do no right and that’s making you a bit sad, deflated and exhausted.

I think you should sit down together and go through what you both expect and how to achieve this. You could make a timetable of jobs so each person knows what the other is doing.

Would your wife prefer to work part-time perhaps ? is this an option.

This is not worth breaking a marriage up over. It’s squabbles over household chores! What a ridiculous thing to break up over! I think during COVID times it’s also difficult, there is no relief! You are stuck in the house all day and there is nowhere to go.

If you can’t achieve meaningful conclusions from your conversation the go see a counsellor.

PicsInRed · 01/02/2021 15:09

I think we must assume that the wife is paying for half the cost of the nanny on her teachers salary and she cannot afford anymore.

GoodbyeH · 01/02/2021 15:22

@PicsInRed

We have a lot of conflict over housework. During the time I was working and my wife was a SAHW she did not do so much housework. I would end up doing quite a bit on the weekend. We always had a cleaner for 3 hours a week and eventually I ended up paying for her to come for another 2 hours on a Friday so the place would be clean and tidy for the weekend.

Did your wife actually want to sack the cleaner or was that driven by you? Was it a cost thing? Do you expect the house spotless for the weekend - for when you're home? Is that, and then you firing the cleaner, what the shouting is actually about? Does she actually want the renovations?

Your wife is out of the house 12 hours a day working. Why don't you have a cleaner? Is she NHS or other front line type work by any chance? You say you do all the getting the kids up etc, are you wfh or furloughed right now?

I feel like there's a lot of relevant information missing here intentionally but it's jumping out between the lines.

If you're both busy and have the money, why on earth would you fire the cleaner?

That information isn't missing. It's in the post. She's a teacher. He works from home because of Covid.
aloetia · 01/02/2021 15:24

I'm sure if this was reversed you will get loads of comments like LTB. So from what you have written and because you can afford it, you should give more hours to a cleaner and ditch the nanny hire an au pair who can cook as well to make it a happier and manageable marriage or LTB. One more thing, if we asked your wife, would she tell us that you have very high standards? I have been with a man who had very high standards and it was very hard to maintain that relationship hence why the relationship ended. I'm clean and tidy myself and do more than my share but this twat had certain standards that was impossible to maintain and the last thing you need is a nagging man even though everything was spotless. I feel sorry for his now wife and children.

GoodbyeH · 01/02/2021 15:31

Honestly if you were a women everyone would be waving their flags for you OP.

Your a man. You won't get any resonable advice here with out a massive fight.

I would try reddit.

Jsku · 01/02/2021 15:43

OP - I was your W in a way. Similar career, gave up to raise/educate kids, live in the expensive area if London, was married to someone working your hours.

So - I know you are being silly and not totally genuine. The amounts you spend on tutors and extra curricular is a lot.
Cleaners is the cheapest of the help you are currently buying - so 3 extra hours cleaner per week is will be less than £200/mo.

So - it’s silly that you work your kind of job and insist on doing hovering/toilet cleaning on your wine over the weekend. And argue about it.
It’s like you are trying to prove some sort of point. Which is totally unnecessary.

Secondly - I am guessing your W isn’t from here originally. Her attitude towards the house, and some other bits remind me of certain areas in Europe.
And I think you resent her for putting those demands on you. But at the same time she does view the house as a status symbol and you knew that when you got together with her.

So - yes she is unreasonable for expressing herself in that way.
But - was the agreement when you bought the house that you would get it renovated?
And does it now sound like you are saying it’s too hard - or she has to manage it?

That bit is unreasonable too. Managing a whole house renovation is not easy. I Whig seen many of people go through it and with lots of professional help - and most hated doing it. And she couldn’t manage a simple redecorating. She can’t manage a house job.
(As a side note - I managed a flat refurb before kids and was crap at it, despite my two degrees and project management experience in real world, so it’s not for all)

You need to find a solution to the house issue that doesn’t involve you or her killing yourselves over it. Smaller but finished house? Doing it in phases and not moving out?
I do partially agree with her that living in a larger but dilapidated house in a nice area isn’t great.
And - additionally - money you put into renovation does raise the property prices.

Anyway. Good luck. You do know money is one of the top reasons people divorce. And you are in some way quite tight with it - not many people in managerial City jobs would be spending so much time cleaning, or losing promotions because of project managing re-decorating.
My own marriage broke down, and money issues were part of it. Different ones to your marriage, but equally unnecessary in hindsight. Joint resentments built up and it all exploded.

If you don’t want to end up there - just get a cleaner and figure out a plan for the house. And stop trying to force your W to become more of a house-cleaner. This isn’t what she signed up to when she married you, and you knew it then. And she is not a totally spoilt person either - she went back to work and she didn’t have to. And by the sound of it - you are still having sex, despite the issues.
Count your blessings, really.

The alternative is splitting your hard earned assets in half and seeing your kids Half of the time. It’s that simple.

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