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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Sharing the burden with a spouse

122 replies

fatherofdragons · 01/02/2021 03:09

I am hoping that people can give me some advice about conflict I am having with my DW over sharing housework.

Married just over 10 years. Two children 8 and 7. I work in City of London. Wife worked in City but gave up work after first child was born (was contracting so just did not go back - her choice). Live in decent-sized family house in Zone 3 since older child was six months. Last year wife retrained as a teacher and started full time job last September.

We have a lot of conflict over housework. During the time I was working and my wife was a SAHW she did not do so much housework. I would end up doing quite a bit on the weekend. We always had a cleaner for 3 hours a week and eventually I ended up paying for her to come for another 2 hours on a Friday so the place would be clean and tidy for the weekend. For context I was and am working 70-75 hour weeks in a City job with a lot of responsibility and have been the sole breadwinner and still earn 85-90% of our aggregate take home pay.

Before September we agreed that we would share housework equally. After giving our cleaner three months' notice we reduced her hours back to 3 hours a week. We have an after school nanny four days a week until 6.30 p.m. Because of Covid I have been working exclusively from home except for a couple of weeks in September when I was in the office for part of the week. My wife leaves for work before the children get up in the morning and gets home about 7 p.m.

The first issue is that I feel I am picking up all the housework and when I try to address this with my wife she just shouts at me.

  • I do 90% of the clothes washing This is not so difficult when I'm working from home but it does involve time running around and in winter the kids get muddy and stuff needs to get scrubbed before it can go in the wash. And stuff needs to be hung up to dry, taken down, folded, etc. Every week my wife says she will do some of the clothes washing at the weekend and every week she does nothing and I end up having do deal with it.
  • I deal with the children in the morning, making sure they get dressed, eat breakfast, brush teeth, get them to do Kumon and piano practice before school, make them packed lunch, bring them to school (keyworker children even though only one keyworker parent - please don't judge). I then come home and tidy up the kitchen a bit. Every three days or so I stop at the supermarket on the way home and pick up food.
  • In the evening I cook the dinner for everyone (unless leftovers from the previous day). This can take more or less time depending on what it is. I also make sure everything is washed up afterwards. Most days I get the girls to have a bath and get dressed for bed. Sometimes my wife will do that if she is home but not always even if she is.
  • I deal with the majority of the household bills and childrens' activities - booking them, paying for them, etc., although my wife also deals with some. Other stuff that comes up is always what I deal with, e.g. unblocking drain when it flooded at the weekend, changing lightbulbs, changing sheets, etc.

My wife has never mopped a floor in our house or dust anything. She vaccums very rarely. For example, when our cleaner is not coming during lockdown (I am still paying her so please don't judge) my wife vacuums maybe once for every ten times that I do.

Despite all that it is my wife who complains that I do not do more rather than me complaining that she does not. She will say that I clean but I do not tidy. She will say that whatever I am doing is not the priority and I should be doing something else. She will tell me not to do some chore because she is going to do it but then she does not and I end up doing it later that day or the next day. She shouts at me that the children have messed up the house and it is my fault. Honestly, I am one of these people who just tidy as I go - I go into the childrens' bedroom and pick up clothes, sort them out, pick up hangers, books, etc. I am also pretty good at getting them to tidy up after themselves. Before Christmas the two children spent half a day tidying up boxes of lego and one of them spent several hours sorting out and fitting into a cupboard all of their boardgames. My wife will shout at me or at the children that they have made a mess but she cannot work with them to get them to help clean it up and when I suggest that she does she says that they do it for me but they don't do it for her because she is the mother.

At any point over the weekend when my wife does any housework at all she will often start shouting at me, particularly if I am not also doing some sort of housework at the same time. It's like she resents having to do anything.

She will also blow up at me out of nowhere over things that are not done. In particular she shouts at me about the fact that most of our house is still unrenovated (but habitable). When we moved in we renovated about half of it. She was at home with a nine month old at the time and the original intention was that she would mostly deal with it. However, I ended up doing 90% of the work dealing with it - we were not doing anything structural and were engaging all the contractors directly - electrician, heating engineer, decorators, floorer, and buying all the fittings ourselves. I was up for a promotion that year and ended up not getting it because for months I was barely able to keep up at work while dealing with all of this at home.

Renovating the rest of the house involves quite a bit of structural work (we will have to move out for at least several months) and I simply don't have the bandwidth to deal with it on my own. After several years we got planning permission last autumn. Even for the planning permission I had to deal with everything. My wife would just say "we're paying for the architect, let him deal with it" but those of you who have done this sort of thing will know that it does not work like that, unless you have deep pockets and are happy to empty them. We are doing a kitchen extension and one obvious issue is that we want it to extend as much as, but no more than, we need it to, and that involves planning the kitchen - what will be in it, how big it will be etc. How far out the extension would be was one of the very few things that we needed to settle in advance of getting planning permission. I had to do it all myself. I remember one night asking my wife if she would measure up one of the existing rooms so that we could factor that in and she refused to do so. She would complain about us doing it late at night but she was a full time SAHM at the time and I was working 12-14 hour days.

When I would confront her and say "You are getting 8 hours of sleep, I am getting 4 hours of sleep. Why are you shouting at me about planning the work on the house?" she would say things like she needs more sleep than me and she cannot plan the work on the house as I am the one who earns the money (I see plenty of families in our neighbourhood where the wife is a SAHM who single-handedly deals with their home renovations). She's completely passive about the whole thing.

I am at my wits end with this because she's now f me out of it every couple of days and in front of the children. I would rather she was just honest with me and herself and say that she does not like doing housework and doesn't want to do housework. It's not that she is not hardworking - she works very hard at her current job and worked hard at previous jobs too. However, in my opinion from seeing with her own family she takes for granted those close to her. I cannot keep doing what I am doing now, never mind deal with a house renovation on my own. I'm getting more and more resentful of her and bitter towards her and how she treats me.

Do any of you have any thoughts on what I can do to deal with this? I have thought about separating and divorcing but I don't see how that would make things any better. I feel that the children are happier now than when my wife was a SAHM and they barely saw me Monday to Friday.

OP posts:
Jsku · 01/02/2021 15:44

‘Cleaning on your OWN’ lol auto correct

KatherineOfAragon · 01/02/2021 16:20

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the request of the OP.

Lili132 · 01/02/2021 18:27

Most women simply have no idea what it's like to work in demanding 50+hours job on top of looking after a young family. Working long hours pre-children is a completely different ball game as there is less housework and you have evenings and weekends to yourself, you don't need to fit meeting children's needs and all else in little time you've got left. The life pre-children and after just don't compare.
It's not necessary for a parent to stay home if the family can afford quality childcare so if OP's wife really preferred to work she could have done. I went from being SAHM to working full time as single parent without having a benefit of a nanny and a cleaner so I'm not sure OP's wife didn't have a choice if she hated being at home as some people suggest.

OP I think some people just try to undermine you and blame you based on their own assumptions. I don't think you are patronising or unreasonable at all. You make a good point that we don't know how hard something is until we experience it and I have to agree with you that working in demanding job plus looking after children /house is exhausting. Being SAHP is exhausting in its own way but gives much more flexibility to do at least some simple things like cooking, tidying or laundry during a day. If a woman on here came and said she did most of the house work on top of working extremely long hours there would be an outrage.

But let's focus on the now.
From what you're saying your wife is outside of the home from early morning till the evening. To be honest with you in her position I would not want to do too many chores either. Seems like a really long day and little time to spend with the children. Would few extra hours paid for a cleaner really affected your finances?
Do you have any quality time as a couple or do all conversations revolve around childcare and housework?

You really need to sit down and have an adult conversation. It's really important that you focus on expressing your needs and trying to understand her needs then finding a solution rather then blaming and criticising (I'm not saying that's what you do). You both need to compromise on what standards you want to maintain when it comes to your home and divide responsibilities so it feels equal and fair. It does not have to be 50/50 but enough to not lead to resentment.
If you won't be able to talk in respectful manner then you have a communication problem. And that is much more serious then not agreeing on practicalities of running a house.
If that's the case then maybe couples therapy would be helpful.

ravenmum · 01/02/2021 18:31

Most women have no idea? Ugh. I'm off this thread.

Lili132 · 01/02/2021 18:40

@ravenmum

Most women have no idea? Ugh. I'm off this thread.
The fact is majority of women do not work 50+ hours in the city jobs when they have little children. It's statistics not my assumption. They are the ones who do but majority do not.
Lili132 · 01/02/2021 18:44

@ravenmum

Most women have no idea? Ugh. I'm off this thread.
And this one was in reference to the lady who said most women worked long hours pre children. I was just pointing out that working extremely long hours while having toddlers is completely different then when child free.
CupOfTeaAlonePlease · 01/02/2021 19:03

OP you wrote here asking for advice but you're not taking any on board. Completely sensible suggestions like 'hire more help' or 'cut back on extra curriculars' have been rejected out of hand with 'this was my wife's idea.' And yet you call her passive?

You have some agency here, you can't blame her for everything while refusing to make any changes to lighten your load.

You've clearly made up your mind, and are only looking for validation of your already fixed views.

Marriage requires flexibility, I think you need to be more open minded to different solutions if anything is going to improve.

If you think architects are too expensive, what until you see what your divorce lawyer charges you.

Londonmummy66 · 01/02/2021 20:08

OK so shes a full time NQT and you earn 85% of the household income. So between you you earn about £180k. You work 70 hours a week and she is out of the house for 60 and then has marking/lesson prep on top I assume. You need domestic help and you can easily afford to pay for it. A cleaner for 4 hours a week isn't going to cut it, you need a part time housekeeper. So get your cleaner to come in in 4 times a week for 3-4 hours each time or get someone who can offer these hours now. Cleaner cleans and does your and your wife's laundry. Nanny does DC laundry and nursery tea. Your and your wife cook for the 2 of you once a week each and one day of weekend each. Buy meals from cook for the rest of the week or batch cook. your weekend meals.

You are actually very lucky as there are a lot of far far lower paid single mums on here who do everything you do and can't afford the help (and may also be home schooling too) so I am not going to be that sympathetic as you can afford it so buy it in. Renovations can wait until the COVID home schooling nightmare is over.

Blendiful · 01/02/2021 20:18

The problem here is the advice given isn’t what you want.

You have some realistic options, but to achieve them something has to give.

This current set up isn’t working, and if you keep doing what you have always done you will get what you Always got!

You have the option to either, pay more to buy in more help, this will leave less money for renovations.

Or cut back and save some money. The kids don’t need all that extra tuition, piano, kumon etc. But if you are insistent they do, then that won’t change your situation.

I have been in the situation of having my kids in numerous clubs and as echoed by another poster my circumstances changed and I could no longer afford it all, we stopped most of it and it turned out they weren’t really bothered! They are perfectly find decent humans without it.

Something has to give and it has to be one or the other. You have tried speaking to your wife and that hasn’t worked. I think you are both expecting too much personally and it’s time to sit down and be realistic about what can give in practical terms to reduce the stress load, rather than having a go at eachother or her at you and you clearly getting more and more frustrated.

None of this will be any good to either of you or your kids if you end up hating eachother or resenting eachother at the other side! Sorry, harsh but the truth.

CupOfTeaAlonePlease · 02/02/2021 07:59

I hope someone before me has also pointed out to you that you were only able to work 70 hours a week and reach a point in your career where you earn 200k + BECAUSE she was at home being a SAHM. She facilitated your career by keeping the home fires burning and raising your (presumably lovely and well adjusted) children, freeing you up to grow your career.

If one renovation project cost you a promotion Hmm, imagine how you would have collapsed under the burden of caring for a toddler and a newborn. Not to mention she carried and birthed your two children for you, was that easy for her?

She allowed you to earn many times the average salary and now you expect her to come home from a day of teaching during a pandemic and enthusiastically set to mopping the floor to please you?

Please show her some respect and gratitude. It is sorely lacking in your OP and updates.

SnuggyBuggy · 02/02/2021 08:18

I just don't get the point of putting in those hours and earning that sort of money and then not using the money to make your life easier.

Gilda152 · 02/02/2021 10:41

Cupofteaaloneplease Right. And she was able to be a SAHM because he worked so many hours and earned so much. What's your point?

fatherofdragons · 02/02/2021 13:04

CupOfTeaAlonePlease: If you're going to write rubbish can you do it on another thread please? The situation when my wife was a SAHM and I was working is irrelevant to the current situation when we are both working. I work longer hours than my wife does, why should I do 80%+ of the housework / childcaring also? My wife is the one who is complaining to me about the state of the house, not the other way round.

I cannot even imagine the chip on your shoulder that you must be carrying. The fact that you come on here and write what you do makes me wonder how people like you actually function in the real world. I'm guessing, not particularly well.

OP posts:
fatherofdragons · 02/02/2021 13:17

Apart from CupOfTeaAlonePlease, than you everyone else for the advice. I appreciate in particular the advice from Jsku, Lili132 and Blendiful.

Jsku, you are correct that my wife is not from UK - her family are European. Some of this is that my wife does not like a lot of types of housework but cannot just admit that and say we should just throw money at it. She was not even keen on us having a cleaner after she got married (that was not a new cleaner but just continuing with the one I had since I got my own place). So my wife wants a perfect house but wants it to be all her own work IYSWIM. If I do stuff then that is a sufficient extension of her to be okay, but if she has perhaps the level of help that would be ideal that undermines her. There is a lot of baggage there from her own family and what her mother would say to her etc. that I won't even get into.

Jsku: Thank you also for what you said re the renovation. You helped me see this from my wife's perspective in a way that I had not before. I said to her last night that we should just get childcare one day each weekend for the next few weekends and spend the whole of that day together working on the renovation. This was sort of what we had planned anyway but with clubs etc. not running it did not happen.

Blendiful: Thank you for the acknowledgement that something has to give and that both of us are expecting too much personally. It is helpful to be told that.

OP posts:
Lili132 · 03/02/2021 17:24

@CupOfTeaAlonePlease

I hope someone before me has also pointed out to you that you were only able to work 70 hours a week and reach a point in your career where you earn 200k + BECAUSE she was at home being a SAHM. She facilitated your career by keeping the home fires burning and raising your (presumably lovely and well adjusted) children, freeing you up to grow your career.

If one renovation project cost you a promotion Hmm, imagine how you would have collapsed under the burden of caring for a toddler and a newborn. Not to mention she carried and birthed your two children for you, was that easy for her?

She allowed you to earn many times the average salary and now you expect her to come home from a day of teaching during a pandemic and enthusiastically set to mopping the floor to please you?

Please show her some respect and gratitude. It is sorely lacking in your OP and updates.

They could have afforded nanny so she didn't have to be SAHP! How do you think working mothers cope, especially single parents? Most women who prefer to have a career and hate being at home with the kids do not become SAHP. Stop blaming OP for his wife's choices, especially that he stated his wife wanted to be at home quite a few times on this thread. There is nothing to suggest that he didn't appreciate her contribution in raising his children either.

I agree that with their long working hours there need to be more realistic expectations and maybe more paid help required but honestly I can't imagine a woman coming on this site complaining that her husband does not help around the house and then getting such a hard time like OP here. It's crazy.

Itsnotlikethiswithotherpeople · 04/02/2021 01:08

I’m glad you have a plan.
I just want to add that a few times both you and other posters have said your wife doesn’t need to work long hours. Every single NQT (and most other teachers) I have worked with worked very long hours. It is sadly expected and normal. It’s also common for people to drop out of PGCE or NQT years. I get that she earns less, but it’s not a job you can work short hours in unfortunately, which is why I always caution against it if people are wanting something family friendly. Few teachers would say it was family friendly.
I’m in a ‘normal’ job now and have far less holidays in theory. In reality I work a lot less hours over the year even factoring that in.

sofato5miles · 04/02/2021 01:28

My ex is a banker, i am not quite as well paid but still ok. Divorce cost a lot but we both agreed to spend a lot of money on a nanny and housekeeper at the expense of other things so that we get max time with the kids. This means home lives are calm and pleasant ( in theory!) when we come in from work to our split time with the kids and weekends can be enjoyed.

You are spending money in the wrong place.

MixMatch · 04/02/2021 05:28

Your kids don't need that many extra curriculars, calm your farm. I promise they'll benefit more from having happy relaxed parents in a stable marriage than they will from piano lessons and Kumon.

100% this. The CLEANER is the priority here. Cut all these kids activities and other things to ensure you can outsource. OP you must listen to advice and prioritise the wellbeing of you, wife and kids. Your kids certainly won't prefer divorced parents and a forever broken family to unnecessary piano lessons and tutoring.

HighSpecWhistle · 04/02/2021 05:52

If you earn 85-90% of the family income, yet your wife earns maybe mid-late £20k then you must be on a heck of a salary.

You're both CHOOSING the high life. Zone 3, extensions, expensive hobbies. Nannies....

You can't expect everything in life. You're wanting it all but now can't even do the basics together. Just replace the kitchen, no need to extend. Or move.

Maybe you both need to cut back your hours. Live somewhere cheaper like the majority of people do.

You both lack balance and don't seem to have much of a perspective about what's important in life.

I'm struggling to sympathise. I think you need to see how others are living - maybe then you'll take a step back and re-evaluate what's important and give yourselves time to wind down and do day to day tasks.

MixMatch · 04/02/2021 05:55

I'm familiar with the OP's work environment. It attracts a certain "type" of person. It's common for people in so called "high flying" careers to have high expectations of everything in their lives including spouse and kids. This mindset works well for that type of work which is ultimately self focused and all about making money, but is toxic for relationships and kids where unrealistic high expectations and pressure just leads to stress and disillusionment.

At the end of the day, people aren't products and trying to make everything image perfect just doesn't work. A lot of love, forgiveness and crucially, focusing on what is TRULY important is what's needed in families. Reducing the cleaner but keeping the unnecessary piano lessons foisted on those kids in the morning. Choosing to do a big house renovation with small kids when blindingly obvious to normal people that it would be way too much pressure on a relationship/family. These were just a couple examples of where perspective seems to be really lost . However looks like things are going in a better direction now which is positive.

MixMatch · 04/02/2021 06:18

@Lili132 his wife's choice to be at home with their kids makes perfect sense considering her husband's huge salary. However there's a hint of resentment about it from the OP's post. The OP seems very preoccupied with the material things in life but at the end of the day, it's family that's most important (or should be). That's precious time with their own children she will never get back if she outsourced to a nanny. As another poster said, people need to take a step back and think about what really matters in life. Now they're older, she's chosen to focus again on her career, and in one she earns a lot less but presumably finds more fulfilling and makes a meaningful contribution to other people too.

Jobsharenightmare · 04/02/2021 07:54

Best of luck moving things forward OP. It certainly doesn't sound like you have it easy here at all.

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