The normalisation of OnlyFans and porn

[mistea]

I graduated from uni about 5 years ago, and still keep in touch with my course mates via a WhatsApp group chat. Recently, one of them was asking if anyone knew of any openings in our field, someone suggested that she open an OnlyFans account, and basically everyone else (it was a very male-dominated course) chimed in about how that was a great idea and that they had friends who did that and made 5+ figures a month.

Fair play but I personally know of a friend who went down that route, made a decent amount in the first few months, only to be pushed to show her face and do more and more extreme acts to retain her subscribers who all ended up leaving anyway. She has now quit but her videos are stuck on free porn sites and reposted on forums from time to time. Her case isn't a rare one.

Is it just the people I surround myself with? Or is this really how the world is today? After my last relationship broke down because of a violent porn 'addiction' on my exDP's part I feel just feel like it's all hopeless now.

Actually many women are in relationships with men and the men are the ones rejecting them sexually and the woman have higher sex drives
The majority of pirn shows women being humiliated , called names and abused etc . I’m talking MAINSTREaM porn . This is according to research by professor Dines . What did you think of that research soccormom1 ?

@soccormom actually I’m sure you read that it’s around 88peecent of mainstream porn that was found to be demeaning and humiliating to the female ... but you have already been told several times about this research and your still in denial and saying it’s all about sex
It’s NOT

I'm not in denial, I just disagree, it depends what reports you read. There are a plethora or reports and a wide range of porn, we've already established we can't agree what porn is. Apparently selling worn shoes is porn to some people. In my own experience when I've gone looking for porn it seems to be pretty bog standard amateur stuff that's on these sites mainly, admittedly I'm not looking for certain things others might be looking for.

Maybe I misunderstood the other posts which seemed be flinging around the idea of men want sex for power or to humiliate women, obviously this is just silly to make that generalisation, or maybe it was in relation to prostitution, but again most men seeing prostitutes I assume just want sex, I don't think there's some anterior motive about wanting to degrade women. And the same with a guy who's searching for porn, of course there are men like that out there but are we going to say the majority secretly hate women or are they just horny and want to masturbate?

It's pretty simple really, if you're looking for degrading porn, degrading to men or women, you're going to find it. If you want standard porn you'll find that too. Personally I don't want to watch porn of men being kicked in the balls and writhing around in pain, but clearly a lot of people like that crap, bdsm stuff, which lets face it is pretty degrading for the men involved. I don't agree that it's 88 per cent degrading or humiliation, but then it depends what the criteria is for degrading. That would leave just 12 per cent standard porn which is ludicrous. And in not saying that for the sake of arguing, I was reading a piece yesterday which was saying in fact the opposite so it really does depend what reports you read, and your own experiences too. I've been watching porn since I got a decent smart phone and if nearly 90 per cent of porn was humiliating women believe me I'd have noticed.

Soccermom1

‘I'm not in denial, I just disagree, it depends what reports you read. There are a plethora or reports and a wide range of porn, ‘

Then please do direct me to some of these ‘reports ‘ you refer to that statistically show porn to NOT have these images in the majority it
I have referred you to university studies by professors yet yoh refer to some elusive ‘reports ‘
What do these ‘ reports say ?
Please tell
What evidence do they have
Who wrote them ?
Unless they have been actually researched legitimately and statistically based I wouldn’t take them with a grain of salt
But please do direct us all in the right direction

Personally I found the whole 50 shades of grey phenomena to be pretty disgusting and degrading, written by a woman and was made a staggering best seller and movie series primarily by women who seemingly love it. At the time the women in work were obsessed with it and I was practically the only one saying it was awful on so many levels. It's bothered me for a long time, and we're talking mainstream here, not porn. And people are losing their minds about girls making money on OF sites

@soccormom
‘I don't agree that it's 88 per cent degrading or humiliation, but then it depends what the criteria is for degrading’
It’s not actually about whether you agree soccormom it’s about how the researchers defined it and yes 88 percent is the figure . The defined it very clearly in the research , if you actually care about being informed you could actually bother to read it
PROFESSOR GAIL DINES
To begin

You read a report yesterday saying the opposite . Please share the studies name and the data that came from it

@countingthebeat I will have a look and link you what I can find

And for the record I don’t necessarily agree that 88 percent of porn is overtly violent . I agree that the definitions will impact the figures and that this study included all types of abuse however it’s a HIGH percentage and for someone who claims to have been watching porn since they got a decent smartphone you must also then acknowledge that one can barely pass a couple of clips without women being referred to as whores, slut, see her get destroyed teens incest the lot etc on MAINSTREAM sites . I’m not talking about people going looking for this stuff it’s in your face just click on any mainstream site !
Whether one considers these demeaning against women is obviously where the difference lays . Personally I consider that pathetic and disgusting. If you have looked and that sort of stuff for a length of time and don’t find that totally unacceptable and call it empowering I really have to wonder

And when you do please take a look at the main pages of the top porn sites today and tell me they don’t refer to women in the most demeaning terms exactly as I described

@countingthebeat I haven't said porn is empowering, I was talking about sites like OF and clip sites CAN be empowering in terms of women taking control, that's all, I'm contest to porn sites or general porn.

I will try and find some links, I'm referring to articles I read in psychology today and other articles. For example, I don't know if this will surprise you but more women than men, roughly a quarter of female porn users search for violent porn? Rape fantasy and gangbangs. This was in a Vice article where they analysed pornhub searches for women vs men. Now personally that's not my thing, just like 50 shades of crap wasn't my thing, but if women are significantly searching more than men for violent porn and consuming this, that's not something most people commenting on this post would assume.

Maybe I misunderstood the other posts which seemed be flinging around the idea of men want sex for power or to humiliate women, obviously this is just silly to make that generalisation, or maybe it was in relation to prostitution, but again most men seeing prostitutes I assume just want sex, I don't think there's some anterior motive about wanting to degrade women. And the same with a guy who's searching for porn, of course there are men like that out there but are we going to say the majority secretly hate women or are they just horny and want to masturbate?

If they are just lonely and want sex they could always put the effort into meeting a woman and being a decent boyfriend or partner. They don't want to do that because it's too much like hard work. All those men who moan that they're in relationships with women who don't want to have sex, I could almost guarantee that it's because they are crap boyfriends. Most women don't feel like having sex with someone who treats them like a domestic servant, so if you partner up with someone and treat her like crap, you might find that she doesn't have the energy for sex. Weird how these supposedly lovely, lonely men find it preferable to pay for a strangers body where they get to control things than to just pick their socks up and do the dishes. If that's not indicative of viewing women as unworthy of respect, I don't know what is.

[quote Soccermom1]@countingthebeat I haven't said porn is empowering, I was talking about sites like OF and clip sites CAN be empowering in terms of women taking control, that's all, I'm contest to porn sites or general porn.

I will try and find some links, I'm referring to articles I read in psychology today and other articles. For example, I don't know if this will surprise you but more women than men, roughly a quarter of female porn users search for violent porn? Rape fantasy and gangbangs. This was in a Vice article where they analysed pornhub searches for women vs men. Now personally that's not my thing, just like 50 shades of crap wasn't my thing, but if women are significantly searching more than men for violent porn and consuming this, that's not something most people commenting on this post would assume.[/quote]
Absolutely doesn’t surprise me that some of the people searching violent porn are women . We have to remember that we are living a a patriarchal world and it’s naive to think that a proportion of women will not also take on those values . Many people think that women cannot be mysogynistic which is completely false
I would be interested in reading any actual data on the porn industry . Not opinion pieces but analytical data . I never saw or read 50 shades so cannot comment on that.
Ok so you don’t believe porn is empowering . I apologise if I’ve misquoted that . What do you say to my comments regarding the way mainstream porn depicts women . The titles for example , and all the rest

@wellthatsunusual

Maybe I misunderstood the other posts which seemed be flinging around the idea of men want sex for power or to humiliate women, obviously this is just silly to make that generalisation, or maybe it was in relation to prostitution, but again most men seeing prostitutes I assume just want sex, I don't think there's some anterior motive about wanting to degrade women. And the same with a guy who's searching for porn, of course there are men like that out there but are we going to say the majority secretly hate women or are they just horny and want to masturbate?

If they are just lonely and want sex they could always put the effort into meeting a woman and being a decent boyfriend or partner. They don't want to do that because it's too much like hard work. All those men who moan that they're in relationships with women who don't want to have sex, I could almost guarantee that it's because they are crap boyfriends. Most women don't feel like having sex with someone who treats them like a domestic servant, so if you partner up with someone and treat her like crap, you might find that she doesn't have the energy for sex. Weird how these supposedly lovely, lonely men find it preferable to pay for a strangers body where they get to control things than to just pick their socks up and do the dishes. If that's not indicative of viewing women as unworthy of respect, I don't know what is.

And also if they are just wanting a little sex and it has nothing to do with disrespecting women why does every second video refer to women in the most disgusting terms , talk about seeing them humiliated ( actual words in some titles on mainstream sites ) in pain , destroyed spat on etc Don’t sound like lovely guys who just want some sex to me

Are some people honestly so naive to think oh those good old OF dudes are soooo sweet they just think porn is so damn degrading and demeaning to women they would never touch it
You can get your ass these guys are using both
And sure one in four who look up the degrading porn may be women . That leaves 75% who are men !!!

Really interesting debate here with some excellent posters.

@Soccermom1 fair play for continuing to try and uphold the side of the debate currently being decimated, but the weak and pithy fabric of your points (points which are not usually interrogated when being used in more broader contexts as the rationale behind the Sex Work is Work swivel eyed assertions online) is being revealed here.

I have previously dipped my toe into this during the early noughties when I was in my early 20s; I had a couple of sugar daddies, signed up with an escort agency (but was too scared to go through with it so didn’t go and stood the guy up), had been seriously planning to set up a BDSM dungeon as a prodomme and have enjoyed catering to a wide range of fetishes in my personal sex life and relationships etc etc so please don’t patronise that it’s a group of prim, twin-setted, pearl clutching prudes who simply are inexperienced in the heady world of tight-selling and foot pictures that you occupied. Highly condescending.

Although seeing as these “house of cards” wobbly little points you’re representing is enough for society (in the sense of normalisation), is seen as valid and justifying it, the bottom line is that those points have been revealed by many clever, articulate pp to be nothing more than a polished turd.

The wider repercussions of normalising this within society are impacting everyone. And I don’t think it’s in a good way.

@Countingthebeat

And when you do please take a look at the main pages of the top porn sites today and tell me they don’t refer to women in the most demeaning terms exactly as I described

This stuff is quite easy to verify. I just went to the front page on PornHub and the only title I could find that could be construed as degrading to women is one that refers to the "actress" as "British Slut". I think specifically degrading a violent porn is a fetish, and not a particularly popular one.

I can understand why someone who use to be a “ sex worker “ is really really invested in believing that the men are all lovely chaps with disabled wives / wives who are evil cows who refuse them sex, and yes they all just want straight sex with a condom and then to lie and cuddle, or perhaps just hold hands and talk.

No of course there’s no power imbalance, it’s not really about the money and there’s no violence or abuse. It’s all moonlight and roses and empowered women paying for their condo and putting themselves through their PhD.

Not trafficked 12 years olds being sodomised and raped. Or 25 year old single mums with two kids in foster care , a habit and a pimp giving a BJ up an alley for a tenner to buy their next fix.

You are so so wrong when you say it’s “ purely about men wanting sex”. In fact it’s hardly anything to do with sex. It’s absolutely about power.

If it’s about men wanting sex then why don’t they have sex with their partners? These women are on here complaining that he doesn't have a sex drive.

Or why don’t they pick up women in pubs, clubs or on Tinder. It’s really not difficult to get a shag.

If you don’t believe me, read the websites where men rate prostituted women and see how they talk about them. You’ll soon see what these men are really like.
warning - I’d advise you to do this on an empty stomach

@DedlyMedally strange because I wonder if your taking into account the barely legal crap where innocence is sexualised, the incest and the ways in which women’s bodies are broken into a multiple categories like commodities . Did you check out the menu also ? How many catagorues for men by body pet did it include? Then tell me the many
Many ways that women are discerned into breast size body size nationality age if goes in and on and on
Violence and degradation of women takes many forms and aurenperhaps today was a ‘ good day and there were less videos on the front page with demeaning words describing women . How about you type those demeaning words into the search engine and see how many videos are actually on there
Perhaps they are behind the right ball considering the apparently had to delete thousands upon thousands of their videos due to what was in there ? Not demeaning to women that’s laughable

It’s interesting how some people will take a point and say oh but that’s not the case I checked . Check over a period of time . Really look into what’s on the platform . Look at recent scandals . Research
And if one is invested enough to check the porn website read the statistics and give a comeback for them , expose why all the research is so wrong . Not just one but all of it ! And there is a lot
I obviously need to be extremely careful In Saying check the front page because then off someone runs to check one front page and comes back to say oh only one video with a nasty word against women . I should have said check a few front pages over a few days . I should have said look at how frequently women are referred to in those terms , look at how women are portrayed in the search menus , look at how incest and trucking girls into sex is often the theme
That’s the thing that’s happening here . Not one person supporting the porn industry has bought anything other than anecdotal stories and a personal enjoyment of porn to support their beliefs
Show us statistics that women and girls are not harmed . Show us statistics that is not impacting relationships . data data data

And for those who claim Porn is not good but OF is not porn and IT is ok . Please give some type of support to your claim that OF is not damaging to women as a whole and the way women are treated in relationships . Also to the claim that OF is not a type of porn despite it has age restrictions and is of a sexual nature

I thought my post may bring out the mini Anyfuckers to lambast me, was not wrong.

No I had no emotional damage growing up.

The women I saw in my 20s were all 40s and up, I had a thing for older women then. So no trafficked teens. I was paying 500ish for a topless massage with a handjob, a high price justified by their skills and beauty. If they offered more services, it was not mentioned but then I never wanted anything more than a handjob so never asked. I remember paying one through her limited company and helping put an investment portfolio together for another. Not people who did not have their fiscal matters together. I doubt any were pimped, there was no agency involved.

Historic issues, drug addiction - stronger possibilities. Certainly not heroin/crack, likely cocaine. If someone wants to use cocaine regularly and want to do that sort of work to pay for it, up to them.

If I am putting on a performance with my relationship I have been putting it on a very long time now. The way I see it I make a conscious decision regularly to put the effort in to keep my relationship going. I don't use porn and have never cheated.

One of the reasons I haven't is because of my outlook. I know that an affair will entail all the same hassles as a relationship. It's another person with their own needs, wants, issues. I think blokes who have affairs forget this totally. One relationship is more than enough for me!

Apologies for the slow reply, had rather a lot of crap to deal with this past week which I won't bore anyone with.
I think rather than search on these sites for degrading porn which of course you'll find, just like you'll find thousands of videos of men being kicked in the balls if that's your thing, might be easier to Google most searched for categories as these sites tend to keep tabs on this sort of thing and top of the lists year on year seem to be lesbian, milfs and some sort of animated porn which is Japanese apparently, which gives you a better idea of what people are actually watching mainly on these sites, rather than presume it's mainly violent extreme stuff.

And no one's answered why 50 shades of crap is so massively popular with women, the books and the movies, and if it's because of the patriarchy why aren't men devouring 50 shades seeing as they seem to love humiliating and controlling women? I actually had a conversation with the girls at work when the books became a phenomena and I felt like I'd been beamed down from another dimension, it doesn't appeal to me and never has done and if it's the patriarchy surely I'd have been indoctrinated into this nonsense too and be swooning on being a slave to mr grey, I found it weird at the time and even weirder now.

And to reply to the earlier comment about I'm saying all men who use prostitutes are disabled or lonely etc of course I'm not saying ALL men but the response is just ridiculous to then state it's ALL men who do this are doing it for power or to degrade women, it's equally absurd. I think a fair number of these men can't have actual relationships, either they're not nice looking or have no social skills or disabled or unemployed, ie not desirable, and I imagine it's pretty degrading to have to pay someine to have sex with you rather than empowering, who would get a confidence boost knowing they have to pay to have sex?

And before anyone criticises what I'm saying I'll repeat it again, sex trafficking, pimping, underage girls on sites is terrible, and everything should be done to prosecute those who do this. I'm not condoning any of it. But I stand by those women who want to open an OF page or sell clips or sell photos or items of clothing to make a bit of money, or who want to work in the sex industry if they so choose and it's strictly their decision.